keptie Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Β It doesn't matter if it's deliberate. His hand touched the ball and there was a marginal change in the ball's pace and direction. It was the correct decision. It does matter, it has to be deemed deliberate. Him trying to get past the defender doesn't make it deliberate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 4 minutes ago, rainbowrising said: Do you have a 15 minute YouTube to prove that? I bet you do.Β https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabant_killers Β https://asawinstanley.substack.com/p/how-the-cia-oversaw-belgiums-secret Β 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Β It doesn't matter if it's deliberate. His hand touched the ball and there was a marginal change in the ball's pace and direction. It was the correct decision. Β Eh? It either has to be deliberate, or they have to have made their body 'unnaturally bigger' (which is a deliberate act by definition, otherwise it would be 'natural'). It's only a foul if you think his arm wasn't in that position as a natural consequence of the tussling with the defender. What happened to the ball afterwards is completely irrelevant (unless it goes straight into the net, which this clearly didn't). I'm not sure why anyone is even mentioning it. Β Edited June 17 by Diamonds are Forever 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 8 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said: Β Eh? It either has to be deliberate, or they have to have made their body 'unnaturally bigger' (which is a deliberate act by definition, otherwise it would be 'natural'). It's only a penalty if you think his arm wasn't in that position as a natural consequence of the tussling with the defender. What happened to the ball afterwards is completely irrelevant (unless it goes straight into the net, which this clearly didn't). I'm not sure why anyone is even mentioning it. Β In this instance, it wasn't deliberate, but he raised his hand away from his body and made contact. I don't think his hand was in that position as part of the tussle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainbowrising Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 15 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabant_killers Β https://asawinstanley.substack.com/p/how-the-cia-oversaw-belgiums-secret Β I applaud your indefatagability in churning the most tedious "false flag", all the fault of the CIA pish.Β 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, rainbowrising said: I applaud your indefatagability in churning the most tedious "false flag", all the fault of the CIA pish.Β Are you denying that operation gladio ever happened? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Stills aren't the most conclusive evidence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: In this instance, it wasn't deliberate, but he raised his hand away from his body and made contact. I don't think his hand was in that position as part of the tussle. Β Why would he raise his hand away from his body if not to either increase the chances of the ball hitting it, or to balance/hold off a defender in a tussle? If it's the 1st option then it's obviously a handball, but you said you didn't think he did that. And if it's the 2nd option then it's not a handball. Your suggestion seems to be that he's just randomly sticking his arm out for no reason, the ball has hit it and therefore it's handball. And even if he is doing that for some bizarre reason, it's still a deliberate act to stick his arm away from his body, which was my original point. It seems to have got completely lost in the mess around the handball law, but at the root of any handball offence (apart from when the ball goes directly into the net off a hand) the referee has to think that a player, for whatever reason, has deliberately chosen to put their hand into a position where it wouldn't naturally be. In this case he is just tussling with the defender and the ball happens to hit his arm, I don't think there is any offence there. Edited June 17 by Diamonds are Forever 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said: Β Why would he raise his hand away from his body if not to either increase the chances of the ball hitting it, or to balance/hold off a defender in a tussle? If it's the 1st option then it's obviously a handball, but you said you didn't think he did that. And if it's the 2nd option then it's not a handball. Your suggestion seems to be that he's just randomly sticking his arm out for no reason, the ball has hit it and therefore it's handball. And even if he is doing that for some bizarre reason, it's still a deliberate act to stick his arm away from his body, which was my original point. It seems to have got completely lost in the mess around the handball law, but at the root of any handball offence (apart from when the ball goes directly into the net off a hand) the referee has to think that a player, for whatever reason, has deliberately chosen to put their hand into a position where it shouldn't naturally be. Ok, you convinced me. It was deliberate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Just now, Sergeant Wilson said: Ok, you convinced me. It was deliberate. Β I'd disagree, but it's pretty subjective and I wasn't really arguing for or against the decision anyway, just questioning how the decision is made. I certainly don't think it's a decision that should be getting overturned, that's if we're still pretending VAR is about 'clear and obvious errors' etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainbowrising Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 28 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: Are you denying that operation gladio ever happened? Gladio dates back decades to the 1950s and the whole Soviet threat. Show me direct evidence that the Brabant group was actively funded by the CIA in the 1980s.Β Your Wikipedia link doesn't even mention them as a link. It does list a wide range of possible criminals/extremist Belgian police links that you presumably chose to ignore. The other link ticks every box of conspiracy theorists fitting whatever they can to fit. Take a step back and look at your "evidence" and what is really telling you.Β 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 4 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said: Β I'd disagree, but it's pretty subjective and I wasn't really arguing for or against the decision anyway, just questioning how the decision is made. I certainly don't think it's a decision that should be getting overturned, that's if we're still pretending VAR is about 'clear and obvious errors' etc. What about this... VAR will be used only for βclear and obvious errorsβ or βserious missed incidentsβ in four match-changing situations:Β goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity. "Serious missed incident"? I thought it looked like a foul in the immediate replays and have tried to apply the logic/rules as the var officials. Β 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Today was kinda what I hoped for from going to a tournament game as a neutral. An underdog up against one of the world's best and an incredible atmosphere in an impressive stadium (in the sun!). It was brilliant getting to see an occasion that meant so much to other fans without any of the nerves that go along with watching your own team.Β It also seemed like every Scot in Frankfurt was there.Β 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 4 minutes ago, rainbowrising said: Gladio dates back decades to the 1950s and the whole Soviet threat. Show me direct evidence that the Brabant group was actively funded by the CIA in the 1980s.Β Your Wikipedia link doesn't even mention them as a link. It does list a wide range of possible criminals/extremist Belgian police links that you presumably chose to ignore. The other link ticks every box of conspiracy theorists fitting whatever they can to fit. Take a step back and look at your "evidence" and what is really telling you.Β Β And how do you expect me to get that evidence? The suspects have never been caught and itβs not as if the CIA is going to come clean about it. The evidence shows that the CIA funded right wing terrorism across the rest of Western Europe, why would Belgium be any different.Β For example, Gianadelio Maletta, the former head of counter intelligence in Italy confirmed that operation gladio continued long into the 1970s at least.Β https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2001/mar/26/terrorism Β 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Belt Caley Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said: You won't get to keep it.Β 1 hour ago, rainbowrising said: They might refuse thatΒ Sticking it to the manΒ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 22 minutes ago, accies1874 said: Today was kinda what I hoped for from going to a tournament game as a neutral. An underdog up against one of the world's best and an incredible atmosphere in an impressive stadium (in the sun!). It was brilliant getting to see an occasion that meant so much to other fans without any of the nerves that go along with watching your own team.Β It also seemed like every Scot in Frankfurt was there.Β Scratch that. England fans on train back to Cologne. Day ruined.Β 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 19 minutes ago, Central Belt Caley said: Sticking it to the manΒ Winning. Unless you ever want to use 365 to bet again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorOnopko Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 7 hours ago, Jan VojΓ‘Δek said: I've only watched a few games due to being out all weekend (Friday obviously, then Italy v Albania and now this) but the atmosphere has looked absolutely tremendous in every game. I can't remember the last international tournament I watched where the crowds and supports were as passionate as this. Maybe Germany 2006? I can't say I've thought about Romania as a nation sinceΒ Marius Niculae played for Inverness. But I found myself going 'YES' when that third went in, just because their support has been absolutely class. I was there today and my pals and I were expecting a Ukraine win. The Romanian team performance after a ropey start was superb, as was the atmos in the stadium. A great day out. Mudryk and the other Ukraine stars looked pretty poor tbh.Β 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 5 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said: Why are the Belgium players so drenched in sweat? Been on the Duval probably. I love the smell of napalm on my jersey. Β 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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