NotThePars Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 Watson isn’t overly bothered about Remain or a second referendum, if he thinks it’ll undermine Corbyn and Corbynism then the fat toad will go for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenal till I die Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 22 hours ago, Cerberus said: Labour are brutal. I really want us to remain, especially now with the way the Tories are behaving absolutely disgracefully. I also think a Tory No Deal Brexit or Remain is a pretty straight forward choice if you're Labour, no matter how complicated the Remain/Leave issue is generally. However, I can't help thinking back to the way the party behaved during the Scottish referendum. It's absolutely right the M.P's should be expected to sign up to whatever Labour's policy is in terms of what goes on in Parliament, whether or not to call a referendum, what way to vote on the bill if another party puts a bill forward, etc. I would include this in Scotland - even though I want independence and I would want the party to vote in favour of a referendum, I would respect the position of the leader. However, once it gets put to the voters, I can't help but feeling that the party should be a broad church (ironic the most rabid Brit Nats in the party use that phrase to justify expelling Foo Fighters fans and spouses of Green Party members) enough to not arm twist Labour politicians into silence or even worse being forced to say things they don't agree with. I guess some would argue that the best of both worlds would be an unshackled Labour government, although the Tories can come back in. To that, people might say they're against Brexit but want Labour to be in charge of us leaving. It's complicated... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 10 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said: I think he's right to suggest the party should “unambiguously and unequivocally back remain” It's disappointing that they can't present a united front on this, but perhaps the thinking is the more options you have on the table the least numbers of voters you will offend. If you're not sure about this whole Brexit thing vote for us. We're not sure about it either! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) I'm coming round to Corbyn's position, which looks like winning the election, negotiating the best leave deal they can get, and putting it against remain in a referendum. MPs and cabinet members could support whichever side they choose. It would mean the election would be about getting rid of the shambolic and extreme right Tory party ready to wipe out any workers' rights they haven't already, and reduce taxes and regulations for their predatory pals in the City who brought us 2008. And putting forward a strong Social Democratic restorative alternative. Putting the Brexit choice back to the voters means they can take the Tories on directly on their record, instead of falling into the Cummings trap of fighting emotion with logic. Dumb emotion (mainly hatred) wins every time. Edited September 11, 2019 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 Don’t really see the problem with trying to negotiate a less damaging deal - think someone was saying it would enshrine workers, consumers and environmental protections on top of what May got - putting that to the public in a straight contest with Remain and then letting Labour MPs campaign on what they prefer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 Also lol @ this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 A Labour MP from the North East claiming she could work with Farage ahead of the LibDems given their repective positions on Brexit. I don’t have much time for the LibDems but that is a shocking statement. The Labour Party needs to use the selection process ahead of the forthcoming GE to rid itself of c***s like this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 A Labour MP from the North East claiming she could work with Farage ahead of the LibDems given their repective positions on Brexit. I don’t have much time for the LibDems but that is a shocking statement. The Labour Party needs to use the selection process ahead of the forthcoming GE to rid itself of c***s like this.Some of these northern Labour MPs are just spineless b*****ds - too scared to tell gammony voters what a bunch of racists and economic illiterates they really are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: 41 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: A Labour MP from the North East claiming she could work with Farage ahead of the LibDems given their repective positions on Brexit. I don’t have much time for the LibDems but that is a shocking statement. The Labour Party needs to use the selection process ahead of the forthcoming GE to rid itself of c***s like this. Some of these northern Labour MPs are just spineless b*****ds - too scared to tell gammony voters what a bunch of racists and economic illiterates they really are. They're shit scared of losing their seats but the reality is those northern hell holes like Wigan (Lisa Nandy), Don Valley (Caroline Flint) and Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell) are safe as houses Labour areas who would elect a monkey in a red badge. Most Labour voters in these seats voted Remain. The only reason the seats themselves backed Brexit is because of the support of first time voters who Farage managed to get out on the day to vote to leave. These gammons never vote in general elections and Nandy etc should really stop worrying so much about what they think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Donathan said: They're shit scared of losing their seats but the reality is those northern hell holes like Wigan (Lisa Nandy), Don Valley (Caroline Flint) and Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell) are safe as houses Labour areas who would elect a monkey in a red badge. Most Labour voters in these seats voted Remain. The only reason the seats themselves backed Brexit is because of the support of first time voters who Farage managed to get out on the day to vote to leave. These gammons never vote in general elections and Nandy etc should really stop worrying so much about what they think. People like Snell, Flint and Nandy have a different agenda just like Tom Watson. I predict that in five years time Watson will have a very well paid sinecure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 53 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: A Labour MP from the North East claiming she could work with Farage ahead of the LibDems given their repective positions on Brexit. I don’t have much time for the LibDems but that is a shocking statement. The Labour Party needs to use the selection process ahead of the forthcoming GE to rid itself of c***s like this. Shocking statement it may be but there are substantial numbers of traditional labour voters in the north of England who are utterly fanatical on the whole subject of Brexit. They know what they voted for. (allegedly) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) The Lib Dems demanding revocation without another referendum is well out of order though. It was quickfire yes or no questions and she said she despised everything the Brexit Party stand for. Edited September 12, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Just now, welshbairn said: Demanding revocation without another referendum is well out of order though. It was quickfire yes or no questions and she said she despised everything the Brexit Party stand for. I'm as remainy as they come but I agree with this. I want to either stay in (through public endorsement in a second referendum) or leave on as soft a Brexit as possible, but straight up revoking would be really unfair to the leave voters I reckon. I'd only want to see that mechanism used a truly last resort to avoid a no deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Just now, Donathan said: I'd only want to see that mechanism used a truly last resort to avoid a no deal. Aye, and with a confirmatory referendum to follow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 38 minutes ago, Donathan said: I'm as remainy as they come but I agree with this. I want to either stay in (through public endorsement in a second referendum) or leave on as soft a Brexit as possible, but straight up revoking would be really unfair to the leave voters I reckon. I'd only want to see that mechanism used a truly last resort to avoid a no deal. Surely when the Yellowhammer stuff sinks in, and the morons slowly begin to absorb the big fat lies they were told on how much better off we would all be once outside the EU, they will be prepared to consider this. If they had presented that so called "Worst Case Scenario" during the referendum campaign instead of £350 million for the NHS on the side of a bus would Leave still have won? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Looks like there is going to be a strong push at the Labour Party Conference for a clear policy of Remain. Not before time. I’m sure that great supporter of party democracy, Jeremy Corbyn, will embrace this policy if agreed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 The Guardian are giving the impression of swinging behind Corbyn after the disastrous Lb Dem conference (imo). A picture that doesn't make him look shifty for a change. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/17/corbyn-vows-to-put-sensible-brexit-deal-to-voters-in-referendum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, welshbairn said: The Guardian are giving the impression of swinging behind Corbyn after the disastrous Lb Dem conference (imo). A picture that doesn't make him look shifty for a change. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/17/corbyn-vows-to-put-sensible-brexit-deal-to-voters-in-referendum At least the lib dem position is well defined. I can see a few more defections to them before the next election. Corbyn is, and always will be, a Euro sceptic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: At least the lib dem position is well defined. I can see a few more defections to them before the next election. Corbyn is, and always will be, a Euro sceptic. On what planet are they expecting to get an overall majority giving them the power to ignore the referendum and revoke? The only real world commitment they've made is not to support a Labour Government in order to get a referendum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: The labour position is perfectly well defined tbh Yes it is. If you have the slightest interest in politics it’s easy to follow. Sadly most folk, including the ones that vote, have zero interest. Labour’s policy is very easy for the MSM to present as more convoluted than it actually is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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