What is the point of labour ?

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

25 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I think this is all fair enough but were you not saying very recently that something like Corbyn would never be allowed to happen again? 

Look at what Starmer is doing in Hartlepool. One man shortlist and backing away from his pledge to let local groups vote for their own candidates.

Starmer will limp on to the next and try to purge as many left leaning Labour MPs from the party. And if he can't do that he will change the leadership nomination rules to make it very difficult for another Corbyn to get on a leadership ballot.

Even SLab are at this bullshit in stepping in to remove a candidate for Glasgow Kelvin because they hold a single position they don't like.

If you can't see that Starmer's Labour are trying to purge the left of the party then you have your eyes closed. Surrendering Liverpool is just another kick in the teeth.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 minute ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Look at what Starmer is doing in Hartlepool. One man shortlist and backing away from his pledge to let local groups vote for their own candidates.

Starmer will limp on to the next and try to purge as many left leaning Labour MPs from the party. And if he can't do that he will change the leadership nomination rules to make it very difficult for another Corbyn to get on a leadership ballot.

Even SLab are at this bullshit in stepping in to remove a candidate for Glasgow Kelvin because they hold a single position they don't like.

If you can't see that Starmer's Labour are trying to purge the left of the party then you have your eyes closed. Surrendering Liverpool is just another kick in the teeth.

Yes, this is not what I meant at all. Of course Keith is awful. 

[dirty dingus]

2 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Yes, this is not what I meant at all. Of course Keith is awful. 

Sir Keith, thank you very much.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

20 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I'd be surprised if there's a council or executive in the UK that this doesn't apply to.

The treasury sold RBS/NatWest shares at a £2 billion loss just last fucking week.

The Robert Jenrick who forced through some planning permission in order to save a Tory donor £40 million in tax? That Robert Jenrick? It would be funny if it wasn’t true.

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

The Robert Jenrick who forced through some planning permission in order to save a Tory donor £40 million in tax? That Robert Jenrick? It would be funny if it wasn’t true.

And he declared it "natural justice".

 

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

The Tories have some brass neck having a dig about the 'awarding of dubious contracts'.

[HTG]

59 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I'm completely certain that a significant amount of people who are insistent we can build a radical society post-independence will tune out of politics the minute we're independent and Scotland already has a dearth of radical politics and activism. The post-indy landscape will be a cosy consensus that will do anything but rock the boat under the guise of not scaring off investors or spooking the markets.

I wouldn't disagree with most of that but there will be enough done differently to make the shift noticeable. There will be f**k all spent on nuclear weapons for a start. There will be more focus on Scotland's strengths in terms of its economy - particularly the energy sector. And I think we'll go baws oot to boost our tourism sector.  Plus, as a country which welcomes inward investment and people with skills and abilities, we'll be playing a different tune to that of our neighbours. 

This is all in the wrong thread. Meanwhile, Starmer's covering himself in the opposite of glory. 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

Detournement posts a lot of shite but it's not surprising either that a lot of people immediately revert to this when he starts asking awkward questions. Nothing he's saying is beyond the pale or divorced from reality. 

His problem isn't with the SNP.

His problem is with the electorate, who are much more centrist than he wants.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Detournement posts a lot of shite but it's not surprising either that a lot of people immediately revert to this when he starts asking awkward questions. Nothing he's saying is beyond the pale or divorced from reality. 

He is genuinely all over the shop though.

Wading through all the shite for the odd nugget of truth is tiresome.

[NotThePars]

11 minutes ago, HTG said:

I wouldn't disagree with most of that but there will be enough done differently to make the shift noticeable. There will be f**k all spent on nuclear weapons for a start. There will be more focus on Scotland's strengths in terms of its economy - particularly the energy sector. And I think we'll go baws oot to boost our tourism sector.  Plus, as a country which welcomes inward investment and people with skills and abilities, we'll be playing a different tune to that of our neighbours. 

This is all in the wrong thread. Meanwhile, Starmer's covering himself in the opposite of glory. 

Fair enough, I think that's valid. I understand if people don't think that's enough and aren't inspired by it though. It really is the slide into authoritarianism and natterism down south that's cemented it for me anyway. They're on an irreversible slide into misery.

8 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

He is genuinely all over the shop though.

Wading through all the shite for the odd nugget of truth is tiresome.

He's been pretty consistent on this to be fair to him. 

9 minutes ago, GordonS said:

His problem isn't with the SNP.

His problem is with the electorate, who are much more centrist than he wants.

This abdicates any responsibility or ability for the SNP to shape public opinion which, given they're polling at ludicrous numbers and have a stranglehold on Scottish politics, they are able to change. I also don't think some of the critiques Detournement has made have much to do with the electorate. Are the electorate crying out for the Growth Commission?

[GordonS]

1 minute ago, NotThePars said:

This abdicates any responsibility or ability for the SNP to shape public opinion which, given they're polling at ludicrous numbers and have a stranglehold on Scottish politics, they are able to change. I also don't think some of the critiques Detournement has made have much to do with the electorate. Are the electorate crying out for the Growth Commission?

We've been over this recently here and I think they've moved the public mood in the country on many issues. But the idea they're going to get more than 50% to support independence while campaigning on a hard anti-capitalist agenda is to completely misunderstand the nature of middle Scotland.

[NotThePars]

5 minutes ago, GordonS said:

We've been over this recently here and I think they've moved the public mood in the country on many issues. But the idea they're going to get more than 50% to support independence while campaigning on a hard anti-capitalist agenda is to completely misunderstand the nature of middle Scotland.

It's not about misunderstanding the nature it's about acknowledging that there's no substantial movement which is in place to resist the corporatising agenda that's going to oversee the transition to independence. That's as much an indictment of the left as it is anyone else who's been uselessly divided by Tommy Sheridan's shagging exploits and failing to unite behind one specific movement to achieve its demands.

[GordonS]

8 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

It's not about misunderstanding the nature it's about acknowledging that there's no substantial movement which is in place to resist the corporatising agenda that's going to oversee the transition to independence. That's as much an indictment of the left as it is anyone else who's been uselessly divided by Tommy Sheridan's shagging exploits and failing to unite behind one specific movement to achieve its demands.

Independence is a massive risk. To get people who are worried about jobs and mortgages and pensions to agree to it means promoting a lot of economic status quo, at least in the medium term.

Even if the left weren't permanently bent on self-destruction the SSP still could never have got more than about 10%. 

[NotThePars]

9 minutes ago, Pato said:

very much this.

If voting's so useless for making things change quickly how come mainstream UK government policy today would not look out of place in a 2005 BNP leaflet?

Not going near this one as I've done enough commie posting without tempting the forum's largest bore back on with some New Labour bashing anaw.

[G51]

18 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

It's not about misunderstanding the nature it's about acknowledging that there's no substantial movement which is in place to resist the corporatising agenda that's going to oversee the transition to independence. That's as much an indictment of the left as it is anyone else who's been uselessly divided by Tommy Sheridan's shagging exploits and failing to unite behind one specific movement to achieve its demands.

seriously though, imagine looking billy davies square in the eye when you're nutting in the same lassie. no wonder it ripped the SSP apart.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 minute ago, G51 said:

seriously though, imagine looking billy davies square in the eye when you're nutting in the same lassie. no wonder it ripped the SSP apart.

Mods please

[G51]

it's like the time i talked about lola bunny all over again. instant regret as soon as i posted it.

Edited March 24, 2021 by G51

[Wee-Bey]

Imagine thinking that there's a chance of any positive or meaningful change within the current UK framework. That ship well and truly fucking sailed in 2019. It's full speed downhill into the the brick wall of fascism or neo feudalism or whatever descriptors you prefer.

An independent Scotland will probably be shite, but we might be able to hit the brakes for a bit on the way down. It's certainly worth a shot.

[ICTChris]

Counterfactual history - Rather than launching his defamation case Tommy Sheridan doesn't comment on any questions about the article Avar Khan wrote about an unnamed MSP in the News of the World.  The number of SSP MSPs reduces in the 2007 election but their vote only drops by 50%, reducing the number of SNP MSPs elected on the list by 2 or 3.  This gives the Labour and Liberal Democrats a wafer thin majority in the Parliament, leading to the 3rd consecutive Labour-led Executive. 

A different universe.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 hour ago, G51 said:

it's like the time i talked about lola bunny all over again. instant regret as soon as i posted it.

Great posters push limits