What is the point of labour ?

[btb]

18 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

I was born in 1979. Tories have been in power for 30 of the last 43 years. However you spin it they are a winning machine (or Labour are a losing machine). 

That's a different argument, I was responding to your quote saying "And this is exactly the kind of in-fighting pish you never hear from the Tories."  I maintain that the you heard "in fighting pish" over EU membership from the Tories for most of the period from the mid 90s till 2019.

[101]

Terrible result for the Labour party unless their reason to exist is to sweep this under the carpet.

[Suspect Device]

12 hours ago, 101 said:

Terrible result for the Labour party unless their reason to exist is to sweep this under the carpet.

At least they can put up a challenge to the Tories at something. Well done them. They need the Islamophobic vote if they want to take those Brexit voting areas the Tories did so well in last time.

[Granny Danger]

12 hours ago, 101 said:

Terrible result for the Labour party unless their reason to exist is to sweep this under the carpet.

In NI many of us are critical of political parties existing to serve a particular religious grouping yet people see nothing wrong with trying to skew their politics to appeal to Muslims*.  I am very wary of any ‘community’ that defines itself by its religious beliefs.

* Or Christians, Jews, Trekkies, etc.

[Albus Bulbasaur]

Seems like mischief making to me. Unsure how the polling was carried out but something tells me this is linked to feelings over the new man from the old guard, comment section speaks volumes. 

[Granny Danger]

On 07/03/2022 at 16:17, scottsdad said:

I was born in 1979. Tories have been in power for 30 of the last 43 years. However you spin it they are a winning machine (or Labour are a losing machine). 

I was born in 1955, that’s the last time the Tories won more votes in Scotland than any other party yet we have had to endure many more years of a ruling party that we do not vote for.

[Pocketman]

6 hours ago, Suspect Device said:

At least they can put up a challenge to the Tories at something. Well done them. They need the Islamophobic vote if they want to take those Brexit voting areas the Tories did so well in last time.

"- are you saying that all Brexit voters are racist? 

- no, I am saying that all racists voted for Brexit. 

- [confused] well I am insulted by that characterisation"

 

 

[williemillersmoustache]

16 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

"- are you saying that all Brexit voters are racist? 

- no, I am saying that all racists voted for Brexit. 

- [confused] well I am insulted by that characterisation"

 

 

 

[Clown Job]

 

[Granny Danger]

55 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

 

From the same article.

The Evangelical Alliance has offices in London, Cardiff, Glasgow and Belfast, and are active in Scottish politics, regularly contributing to consultations in the parliament. They have links with Christian politicians from all parties.

Their online leadership conference tonight is being attended by SNP Finance Secretary Kate Forbes. 
 

People like Forbes and John Mason should be nowhere near the SNP.  Sky fairy fuckwits.

[Clown Job]

 

[DrewDon]

Brown has given that same interview, almost word-for-word, at least once every six months since September 2014. 

[Antlion]

10 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

 

Is it that time again already? The shameless, shambling, eccie-jawed con-artist must by now have outdone George Parker, who only managed to keep selling the Brooklyn Bridge for thirty years.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Crusty decrepit failures like Gordon Brown telling Scots what they want will have Labour back in no time.

[williemillersmoustache]

No matter how many times Broon is wheeled out to sell his tattered and grubby wares it is remarkable how he is never, ever asked how he intends to gain consent for them from the Scottish electorate. As though his sage like musing that "this is actually what Scotland wants or needs" is sufficient to impose his grand plan. And lets be absolutely clear about this, major constitutional reform is so far down Sir Keith of BrexiterLegHumpers list of to do's Labour wouldn't deliver it, even if they wanted to or could. And they don't. And can't.

[scottsdad]

4 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

No matter how many times Broon is wheeled out to sell his tattered and grubby wares it is remarkable how he is never, ever asked how he intends to gain consent for them from the Scottish electorate. As though his sage like musing that "this is actually what Scotland wants or needs" is sufficient to impose his grand plan. And lets be absolutely clear about this, major constitutional reform is so far down Sir Keith of BrexiterLegHumpers list of to do's Labour wouldn't deliver it, even if they wanted to or could. And they don't. And can't.

Fair point - what has devolution delivered for Labour, the Tories or the Lib Dems? Very little in terms of Scotland. They'll be very, very wary of making any further changes to the status quo as any changes will likely benefit the SNP rather than themselves. 

[Antlion]

18 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Fair point - what has devolution delivered for Labour, the Tories or the Lib Dems? Very little in terms of Scotland. They'll be very, very wary of making any further changes to the status quo as any changes will likely benefit the SNP rather than themselves. 

Aside from the fact that Labour can’t make changes to the status quo, what’s bizarre is that they’re still peddling their magic beans to … who, exactly? Independence supporters want independence from the UK. UK nationalists would happily see Holyrood (and presumably the name “Scotland”, the “National Library”, the “National Gallery”, etc.) abolished. In a world in which duplicitous grifters have flourished, Labour still manage to f**k up by continually touting snake oil that there’s not even a market for. Absolute fucking incompetents.

[williemillersmoustache]

If I'm totally honest, some kind of federalised UK with an elected second chamber or senate type arrangement, a proportional first chamber, electronic voting, proper controls on lobbying and privilege, no people in tights with swords, a reshaped parliament which is not adversarial, an elected head of state and a properly codified devolved/UK settlement so a crude English plurality can't just steamroller everything wouldn't be the worst thing. I wouldn't mind living in that sort of a UK. 

It's just absolutely not fucking happening, particularly not via electing Keir Starmer or Anas Sarwar, and its completely delusional to think that it would.

And completely dishonest to imply that these kind of opinions, which I don't think I'm alone in having, translates as a desire far less a mandate for Scotland's constitutional future to be decided via Gordy fucking Broon yawning on and on in a room with some handpicked ex-Labour MPs and other assorted people we've rejected at the ballot box.

 

 

[Antlion]

2 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

If I'm totally honest, some kind of federalised UK with an elected second chamber or senate type arrangement, a proportional first chamber, electronic voting, proper controls on lobbying and privilege, no people in tights with swords, a reshaped parliament which is not adversarial, an elected head of state and a properly codified devolved/UK settlement so a crude English plurality can't just steamroller everything wouldn't be the worst thing. I wouldn't mind living in that sort of a UK.

 

 

I wouldn’t have, prior to Brexit - now, even the unicorn of a federalised UK can go and shove its horn up Johnson’s sagging hoop. We wouldn’t be allowed to rejoin the EU or have any kind of self-determination as far as wider political unions go as long as we remained a part of Brexit Britain.

The commonly quoted idea that a federal UK wouldn’t work because of the disparity in populations apparently doesn’t matter when the nations with smaller populations are robbed of their rights and privileges in terms of international organisations. Federalism wouldn’t be fair on England - that’s bad. The current UK isn’t fair on Scotland - that’s good.

[williemillersmoustache]

11 minutes ago, Antlion said:

I wouldn’t have, prior to Brexit - now, even the unicorn of a federalised UK can go and shove its horn up Johnson’s sagging hoop. We wouldn’t be allowed to rejoin the EU or have any kind of self-determination as far as wider political unions go as long as we remained a part of Brexit Britain.

The commonly quoted idea that a federal UK wouldn’t work because of the disparity in populations apparently doesn’t matter when the nations with smaller populations are robbed of their rights and privileges in terms of international organisations. Federalism wouldn’t be fair on England - that’s bad. The current UK isn’t fair on Scotland - that’s good.

Aye, that horse has bolted, the doors have been closed and the stables burnt down.