What is the point of labour ?

[Guest Jedi]

Did I agree with his sidelining of someone standing on a picket line? No. 

[Guest Jedi]

1 minute ago, Brother Blades said:

The Greens are a far more viable vote than either Labour or the Tories, so not sure your point is as good as you think it is? 

Fair enough. Are the Greens likely to be winners of a future Scottish GE, and if so, how far into the future?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Jedi

[Granny Danger]

7 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Where did he say that? Not quite the same as 'I won't form a coalition in government with the SNP is it'?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/20268570.scottish-independence-keir-starmer-confirms-labour-reject-section-30-call/

[Antlion]

Just now, Jedi said:

Did I agree with his sidelining of someone standing on a picket line? No. 

Whether you agree with it or not doesn’t really matter. You’ve been attempting to paint him as some kind of new messiah of the left. Disagreeing with his taking a dump on that halo doesn’t mean he didn’t take said dump.

[Brother Blades]

Just now, Jedi said:

Did I agree with his sidelining of someone standing on a picket line? No. 

No, you didn’t, but you did ask about right wing policies that the current Labour Party have, I’ve given you one, I expect a full apology, in writing. 

[Guest Jedi]

3 minutes ago, Antlion said:

SNP BAD doesn’t = LABOUR GOOD.

And the reverse would also be true..no? I'm not saying that SNP 'bad' is true in all cases...they have made some achievements in government, However for many voters their record is beyond any reproach. 

[Brother Blades]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Fair enough. Are the Greens likely to be winners of a future Scottish GE, and if so, how far into the future?

Ok, so I should prove a Celtic or Rangers fan, cos they are the only likely winners? 

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Fair enough. Are the Greens likely to be winners of a future Scottish GE, and if so, how far into the future?

Yes. 2028. And it will last 164 years and will be glorious. At the same time, Labour will come to power in rUK after a period of coalition, reneging on all their promises, and leave office in 2032 only for the Tories to make a triumphalist return to “clean up the mess”, which will lead to 24 years of them gutting the UK (rinse and repeat).

[Guest Jedi]

7 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

No, you didn’t, but you did ask about right wing policies that the current Labour Party have, I’ve given you one, I expect a full apology, in writing. 

 Fair play. 

And I haven't painted him as a 'saviour' of the left, but rather suggested that the current proposals of the Labour Party (which is more than Keir Starmer), are of a centre left variety, and certainly not 'right wing' overall. Is he going to get some things wrong? Of course, (I certainly don't agree with Brexit, or indeed stopping MP's from standing on a picket line)...just in a choice between a Tory govt, an SNP vision of Indpendence,,,,,I would rather see a Labour one.....and if Labour do win the election, and the SNP have 50+ seats, then yes, that govt should negotiate Independence.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Jedi

[Guest Jedi]

Maybe so (on the Greens). Still don't see them anywhere near power in an Independent Scotland though, and yes, you shouldn't just vote for a party that you think will be winners, but rather the one that you (mostly) agree with. 

Not quite so sure that given the current Tory govt that they will only be out for one term though.

[Brother Blades]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

And the reverse would also be true..no? I'm not saying that SNP 'bad' is true in all cases...they have made some achievements in government, However for many voters their record is beyond any reproach. 

Ffs, I used to be an SNP fanboy, not any more, but they are a means to an end for me, then I can cast a true vote. I’ll vote SNP till the minute we are free from small minded, flag shagging ideologues that make up the two largest parties in the soon to be defunct UK. 
To compare the mistakes the SNP have made in government to the Shitbin that Labour & Conservative parties have subjected us to since the early 2000’s is imbecilic in the extreme. 

[Antlion]

 

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

 Fair play. 

And I haven't painted him as a 'saviour' of the left, but rather suggested that the current proposals of the Labour Party (which is more than Keir Starmer), are of a centre left variety, and certainly not 'right wing' overall. Is he going to get some things wrong? Of course, (I certainly don't agree with Brexit, or indeed stopping MP's from standing on a picket line)...just in a choice between a Tory govt, an SNP vision of Indpendence,,,,,I would rather see a Labour one.

And I wouldn’t, because we have a clear record of what a Labour-led UK leads to: years if not decades of Tory-led governments over which we have no say. You really can’t expect people to get excited about the mere possibility of a Labour blip, especially not one built on promises by a nonentity like Starmer. How stupid do you think we are? We can literally look back on the past ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years and see the direction of travel of the UK - we can see how the system works and who it favours.

[Guest Jedi]

'puddle drinking imbecile',(in the extreme no less) 'moron' .....all nice epithets for not clapping the SNP through.

Don't know if someone who was the Director of Public Prosecutions is exactly a nonentity...still, time will tell.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Jedi

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

'puddle drinking imbecile',(in the extreme no less) 'moron' .....all nice epithets for not clapping the SNP through.

 

[Brother Blades]

8 minutes ago, Jedi said:

 Fair play. 

And I haven't painted him as a 'saviour' of the left, but rather suggested that the current proposals of the Labour Party (which is more than Keir Starmer), are of a centre left variety, and certainly not 'right wing' overall. Is he going to get some things wrong? Of course, (I certainly don't agree with Brexit, or indeed stopping MP's from standing on a picket line)...just in a choice between a Tory govt, an SNP vision of Indpendence,,,,,I would rather see a Labour one.....and if Labour do win the election, and the SNP have 50+ seats, then yes, that govt should negotiate Independence.

Sorry, you can’t get away with this, you claimed that other than flag shagging “make Brexit work” Labour had no right wing policies, you’ve been proved wrong & no amount of emojis will disguise that. 

[Guest Jedi]

Better an emoji (and I was actually giving you credit for one disagreeable labour move incidently)                  than the puddle drinking imbecile chat (passing for debate) as responses...no?

[Antlion]

Just now, Brother Blades said:

Sorry, you can’t get away with this, you claimed that other than flag shagging “make Brexit work” Labour had no right wing policies, you’ve been proved wrong & no amount of emojis will disguise that. 

It’s also not like “making Brexit work” can just be hand-waved away as a “well, I don’t really agree with that but…” or even “well, he doesn’t really mean it” (as though that makes him look good!). It’s the biggest right-wing led, disaster-capitalist shitshow that has infected the UK in my lifetime. And Starmer and Labour are pathetically prostituting themselves to it for the sake of winning newly-minted, Johnson-worshipping Tory voters - because that’s easier than making a principled argument against the appalling decision England and Wales foisted on us all, and actually convincing people that they ought to reverse it.

[Brother Blades]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Better an emoji (and I was actually giving you credit for one disagreeable labour move incidently)                  than the puddle drinking imbecile chat (passing for debate) as responses...no?

I’ve not insulted you once, not sure why you’d bring this up with me? Very strange. 

[Brother Blades]

I’m off to bed, but, I guarantee that the current Labour leaders namesake would be twirling in his grave now, if not scrabbling through the soil to strangle the current incumbent. 
Hardie would be shocked, it was called the Labour Party for a reason, long forgotten by the Westminster elite, it makes me sad. 
it’s an insult to the party name, it’s origins & it’s whole reason for being, that Keith is willing to go right wing just for power, f**k him, f**k the Labour Party & by f**k, we need independence as soon as possible. 

[Big Fifer]

One of the reasons people see independence= SNP is because those at the top of the SNP would likely be part of any negotiations were we to vote for independence, which is a little bit scary considering the quality within the party.

Similarly, this idea that as soon as we're independent the SNP will disband and we'll be presented with a host of new parties in our new glorious democracy seems a bit fanciful to me.