GAD Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, RuMoore said: I think describing everything you dont agree with as Tory is extremely lazy and if you follow this primary school level train of thought then you could describe the SNP, Labour and Tories as being very similar parties so it ends up being a pointless exercise. We need PR but as it stands that doesn't seem likely. Also basing your political decisions or beliefs on trust is a dangerous game. Who do you trust as a politician in the UK? I've not done that. I've simply stated a fact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 minute ago, RuMoore said: You'll need to be specific on his views and I can tell you what I agree with and what I don't. I think Keir has played a very good game when it comes to the media and the previous issues the Labour party struggled with. He's moved the party into a position where it can win an election which isn't something we've had in a long time, very generally speaking I have a strong dislike for the Tories and the SNP so I see Labour as the most viable option for what we're stuck with. And how does that position that he's moved the party into differ from the tories that you claim to dislike? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Just now, GAD said: I've not done that. I've simply stated a fact. If you insist... Now tell me who you trust as a politician in the UK currently? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 minute ago, RuMoore said: He's moved the party into a position where it can win an election Again, I’m not trying to be a dick, but so what? If all that changes is the rosette on the guy imposing austerity, then what’s the fucking point? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, Donathan said: Let's dissect each of their five key missions Sunak 1. Halve inflation - On the face of it, a good thing to have as a priority. The cost of living crisis is hitting us all and anything to stop prices spiralling out of control is a good thing. He's being outperformed by both the US and the EU on this but I largely blame a mix of Brexit and lockdowns for massively reducing our productivity without a matching reduction in wages. Tentative signs of improvement this week. 2. Grow the economy - No sign of this so far. 3. Reduce national debt - I understand the purpose here to not run up a huge debt and spook the markets like Truss did, but not really working with gilt rates still sky high. 4. NHS waiting lists - This is an absolutely key policy for me and one I'm glad to see the PM taking on. No progress so far though, they're at record levels. 5. Stop the small boats - I don't care about this. Starmer 1. Highest sustained growth in the G7 - A lot more ambitious than Sunak just saying "grow the economy" 2. Make Britain a clean energy superpower - IMO the environment is a top 3 issue so it's encouraging to see Starmer putting this amongst his key pledges whereas Sunak ignored it 3. Build an NHS fit for the future - Far more impressive than Sunak just going for a short term reduction in waiting lists 4. Make Britain's streets safe - Nothing at all on street safety from Sunak. 5. Break down barriers to opportunity at every stage - Great for those of us that would like to see equal opportunities. The only criticism of Starmer for me is that there's nothing on inflation and the cost of living. But I'd much rather have a PM focused on the environment, equal opportunities and making our streets safer than one that's just banging on about small boats and the national debt. But he's a proven liar who has changed policy numerous times based on who he's talking to and is currently backtracking on ULEZ as we speak. None if this can be taken at face value. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Just now, StellarHibee said: And how does that position that he's moved the party into differ from the tories that you claim to dislike? They're electable for a start... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Just now, RuMoore said: If you insist... Now tell me who you trust as a politician in the UK currently? Don't really trust any of them right now tbh, but with Starmer he has proven beyond any doubt he's a liar so is proven untrustworthy so deserves no benefit of the doubt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) In terms of politicians who I believe mean what they say then I’ll go for Jeremy Corbyn, irrespective of whether you agree with him or not. Edited July 22, 2023 by oneteaminglasgow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Just now, RuMoore said: They're electable for a start... Is that it? Become electable at any cost, even if it means simply becoming the very thing you're replacing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said: In terms of politicians who I believe mean what they say then I’ll go for Jeremy Corbyn, irrespective of whether you agree with him or not. Honest to a fault. So no real surprise that he's viewed as an enemy of the media and the tits in the general public who swallow the headlines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Again, I’m not trying to be a dick, but so what? If all that changes is the rosette on the guy imposing austerity, then what’s the fucking point? I don't think that's all that will change, I don't agree with the premise Labour are the same as the Tories, I've said previously how using this sort of logic you can shove all the major political parties into the same group. As another posted mentioned above the whole green element of Labours current proposals is relatively exciting and something we won't see with the Tories. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, GAD said: Don't really trust any of them right now tbh, but with Starmer he has proven beyond any doubt he's a liar so is proven untrustworthy so deserves no benefit of the doubt. So you're drawing a willy on your ballot paper I take it? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 minute ago, RuMoore said: As another posted mentioned above the whole green element of Labours current proposals is relatively exciting and something we won't see with the Tories. We won’t see it with Labour either. Some VL from the policy exchange will oppose it and Starmer will abandon it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, RuMoore said: So you're drawing a willy on your ballot paper I take it? I'll draw you a portrait. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Just now, oneteaminglasgow said: We won’t see it with Labour either. Some VL from the policy exchange will oppose it and Starmer will abandon it. So just to confirm everything is Tory unless we mention things that aren't Tory then we'll just say they're lying anyway. You'll perhaps understand why this seems a bit of a futile exercise for me. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Just now, RuMoore said: So just to confirm everything is Tory unless we mention things that aren't Tory then we'll just say they're lying anyway. You'll perhaps understand why this seems a bit of a futile exercise for me. The u-turns would suggest that he was lying? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Just now, RuMoore said: So just to confirm everything is Tory unless we mention things that aren't Tory then we'll just say they're lying anyway. You'll perhaps understand why this seems a bit of a futile exercise for me. The problem you have to contend with is that Starmer got elected in 2020 on a pledge to essentially maintain a lot of the policy platform of Corbyn, because it was (and is) popular with large chunks of the public. Since then, he’s abandoned every single pledge and purged as many left wing Labour members as he possibly can. So aye, I don’t believe a fucking word he says, and the fact that so many Labour frontbenchers are willing to now back policies they previously called abhorrent suggests to me that it’s all a game to them, and all that matters is that they should be in power, not the Tories. Not because they fundamentally disagree with what they’re doing, but because it’s not them doing it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picklish Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 From their mission statement Highest sustained growth in the G7. "Introducing clear fiscal rules with a new enhanced role for the Office of Budget Responsibility. " Not spending frivolously on The Poor's. Effectively austerity? "We will provide long-term, catalytic public investment to unlock private capital, and change regulations to remove barriers. We will make Britain the best place to start and grow a new business" i.e. sell public services / PFI and lower taxes for Amazon et al? "Making Brexit work by closing the holes in the government’s Brexit deal, cutting the red tape hampering some of our leading industries." Not clear what or how. Northern Ireland? Imports/Exports? other stuff seems reasonable, e.g. green prosperity, national wealth fund - but like many others, I think Starmer is almost as untrustworthy as Boris, and equally has no ideological beliefs, so I don't believe Labours positions aren't changeable, and that's before thinking about the execution of the plans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 35 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Again, I’m not trying to be a dick, but so what? If all that changes is the rosette on the guy imposing austerity, then what’s the fucking point? We haven’t had austerity in the UK for nearly a decade. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Donathan said: We haven’t had austerity in the UK for nearly a decade. I think we can leave it here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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