Jeff Venom Posted 20 hours ago Share Posted 20 hours ago 13 hours ago, craigkillie said: These would all be amongst the biggest clubs in the Championship and would have the biggest budgets regardless of the parachute payments. The financial gap between the Premiership and Championship is much smaller than the gap between the SPL and SFL was during that era. The top teams in the Championship get something like 10 times as much prize money now compared to the SFL era. Why do you think the propensity of relegated premier teams going straight back up is far more frequent since 2013-2014 compared to the 20 years previously? Not trying to catch you out by the way, I'm interested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted 20 hours ago Share Posted 20 hours ago 6 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said: Why do you think the propensity of relegated premier teams going straight back up is far more frequent since 2013-2014 compared to the 20 years previously? Not trying to catch you out by the way, I'm interested. I also think a lot of it is just down to randomness - in that 10 year period you've covered there have been several bigger clubs in the second tier - Rangers, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United have all spent two or more seasons in the Championship, and then even Killie and Dundee are quite big clubs for the level. It's worth noting that, even then, and even with the parachute payments, Hibs, Dundee United, Dundee (the first time) and St Mirren didn't go straight back up either. Accies went straight through to League 1 in a couple of seasons as well. You've also had, again by pure chance, some of the bigger Championship teams getting relegated into League 1 - Falkirk, Dunfermline and Thistle have all spent time down there, and they'd be amongst the ones you'd be expecting to be challenging for promotion. In the case of Killie (2021/22) and Dundee (2022/23), both sides were that there was no credible threat from any other big club, which is why they ended up battling it out with Arbroath and Queen's Park respectively. Both of those teams were basically shit, had really low points totals and both emptied a manager either during or at the end of the season, but nobody else could take advantage. The expansion to 12 teams in 2000 will also play a part in this, since it will by definition lead to a weaker second tier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted 19 hours ago Share Posted 19 hours ago 1 hour ago, RAITHROVERS84 said: I’d wager it very likely that if Livi doesn’t get up this season or next they’re in for a world of pain. It’s a credit to them they survived so long in the top flight and for me their natural level is beneath the level they’re currently at. They're at their 'natural level' now. When they were in the Premiership they were at their 'natural level'. Should they do down to League 1 they'll be at their 'natural level'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAITHROVERS84 Posted 19 hours ago Share Posted 19 hours ago 20 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: They're at their 'natural level' now. When they were in the Premiership they were at their 'natural level'. Should they do down to League 1 they'll be at their 'natural level'. I don’t view things like that as you have periods of over and under achievement, sometimes sustained. Falkirk in L1 wasn’t a natural level. Stockport County at level 6 in England wasn’t. Neither was Livi and Hamilton in our top div. It evens out eventually and Livi with their low home gate have got to use the parachute money to get back up to survive off old firm income. The whole topic of the conversation is about the Parachute payment. Livi stunk out the Premiership last term and are rewarded with cash for two years that allows them to potentially retain / attract a player above a “bigger” championship team with a natural higher income. Nice reward for failure.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted 19 hours ago Share Posted 19 hours ago 1 hour ago, craigkillie said: , Hibs, Dundee United, Dundee (the first time) and St Mirren didn't go straight back up either. Worth noting of course the parachute payment isn't just one season, St Mirren and Dundee would've still been in receipt of parachute payments when they were promoted, while Hibs had Rangers and Hearts in the two seasons they were receiving them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastie Russell Posted 18 hours ago Share Posted 18 hours ago If there is financial provision made for the potential of two teams to be relegated from the top league, where does the that money go when on1y team drops down ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted 18 hours ago Share Posted 18 hours ago 21 minutes ago, Beastie Russell said: If there is financial provision made for the potential of two teams to be relegated from the top league, where does the that money go when on1y team drops down ? Back into the prize money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsfan57 Posted 16 hours ago Share Posted 16 hours ago 3 hours ago, craigkillie said: I also think a lot of it is just down to randomness - in that 10 year period you've covered there have been several bigger clubs in the second tier - Rangers, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United have all spent two or more seasons in the Championship, and then even Killie and Dundee are quite big clubs for the level. It's worth noting that, even then, and even with the parachute payments, Hibs, Dundee United, Dundee (the first time) and St Mirren didn't go straight back up either. Accies went straight through to League 1 in a couple of seasons as well. You've also had, again by pure chance, some of the bigger Championship teams getting relegated into League 1 - Falkirk, Dunfermline and Thistle have all spent time down there, and they'd be amongst the ones you'd be expecting to be challenging for promotion. In the case of Killie (2021/22) and Dundee (2022/23), both sides were that there was no credible threat from any other big club, which is why they ended up battling it out with Arbroath and Queen's Park respectively. Both of those teams were basically shit, had really low points totals and both emptied a manager either during or at the end of the season, but nobody else could take advantage. The expansion to 12 teams in 2000 will also play a part in this, since it will by definition lead to a weaker second tier. I think one of the reasons the teams get promoted is that they are willing to take the risk in putting money into the squad. Dundee and Killie both made losses over 1.5M. I don’t think there has been a club in the last 10 years that hasn’t made a substantial loss. Difficult to know with Ross County and St Mirren made a slight profit after player transfers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted 16 hours ago Share Posted 16 hours ago 17 hours ago, craigkillie said: These would all be amongst the biggest clubs in the Championship and would have the biggest budgets regardless of the parachute payments. Considering how close Raith and Arbroath came to winning the league, you could argue that the parachute payments were the difference maker. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted 14 hours ago Share Posted 14 hours ago 4 hours ago, HoBNob said: Worth noting of course the parachute payment isn't just one season, St Mirren and Dundee would've still been in receipt of parachute payments when they were promoted, while Hibs had Rangers and Hearts in the two seasons they were receiving them. I understand the perspective of teams who've spent a decade or so in the Championship but it takes a season or two to take costs down from Premiership to Championship level even a well run team could run into serious financial problems in that time. As an aside we didn't get promoted till our third season in the Championship (Rangers & Hibs won in our first two seasons). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted 13 hours ago Share Posted 13 hours ago 40 minutes ago, btb said: I understand the perspective of teams who've spent a decade or so in the Championship but it takes a season or two to take costs down from Premiership to Championship level even a well run team could run into serious financial problems in that time. As an aside we didn't get promoted till our third season in the Championship (Rangers & Hibs won in our first two seasons). Why are teams expected to do it going from the Championship to League One then? Apologies, that first season had totally slipped my mind, remember yous struggling with Murray before replacing him and the rest was history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted 13 hours ago Share Posted 13 hours ago (edited) 26 minutes ago, HoBNob said: Why are teams expected to do it going from the Championship to League One then? Apologies, that first season had totally slipped my mind, remember yous struggling with Murray before replacing him and the rest was history. I didn't know that for sure altho' it's kinda implied I'd say there should be one then for consistency. Edited 13 hours ago by btb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted 12 hours ago Share Posted 12 hours ago Mind all the clubs who, before parachute payments, were relegated and went our of business? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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