Scotland Tickets

[El McFuddin]

I'm looking forward to an attempt at a defence of the attacks on Vogts ethnicity rather than, "you're talking rubbish, grow up, etc."

Discuss the issue Stewarty Mac...................

Methinks that if either of Sonnytheorck or StewartyMac were working in Germany and being labelled useless Scottish so and so's, they'd be understandably upset. Are we so small minded that our press have to pillory people of other nationalities, primarily because they are of another nationality and the general public sallow these lines hook line and sinker and peddle them out ad infinitum? Do we have to lable people of other nationalities by crass stereotypes i.e the boring German, the clueless German, the arrogant Dutchman, the laid back Swede etc?

Can we move into the twenty first century and leave this insular mindset behind?

NB Stewarty Mac, to say, "Klaus is German", is stating fact; it's descriptive.

To say, "Klaus is a useless German so and so", is also descriptive, but is using Klaus' nationality as a insult rather than as a statment of fact. The latter is an example of the treatment Berti Vogts is being subjected to by the Scottish tabloid press.

[Sonny Therock]

I'm looking forward to an attempt at a defence of the attacks on Vogts ethnicity rather than, "you're talking rubbish, grow up, etc."

What we have here is a classic argument put forward (many times) by those who are unwilling to compromise.

There is no contradiction in my opinion. Vogts is a crap coach. End of story.

The fact that he's German has no bearing on the issue. His 'ethincity' is not in question.

And that, for the record, is the third time I've made that statement.

But I again repeat that it is you who bring up the subject. You know what is said about those who protest too much?

However I prefer a good old fashioned saying - "dugs smell their ain sh!te first."

Racism takes many forms and all of it should be avoided, however to libel someone on the basis, in this case, that the subject of the debate is labelled German, is frankly, nonsense.

But let's widen it out and constructively too.

Vogts was always the wrong choice for the job. He's not highly regarded as a coach in the game - his record proves that - in fact, many of his compatriots consider him to be a joke figure when it comes to coaching.

David Taylor was hell bent on doing something radical when Brown resigned.

He wouldn't be deflected in his 'mission' to appoint Vogts, despite the warnings he received. And before our Coatbridge friend asks the question, I can't put names on a public forum. You'll need to take my word for it (or not).

Scottish football needed (still does) a root and branch review and part of Taylor's plan was to give this remit to the national coach. This has still to be done by Berti.

So, you would agree then, coupled with his tinkering and destruction of the national team the lack of progress behind the scenes, he has failed?

I run my own business and had I performed in the same way as Vogts I'd be homeless.

But with critique should come solutions otherwise criticism is not valid.

If Strachan would take the job I'd appoint him now. He's an excellent coach and while his club record is not fantastic, he has respect of players, fans and officials.

The remit should be wide and he should be free to do what is required to kick-start our national sport.

And this is not bandwagon jumping. Unless we all realise that our game is in the gutter we have no hope.

Is that racist? Guilty then.

[StewartyMac]

Can we move into the twenty first century and leave this insular mindset behind?

You talk freely about other people contradicting themselves, yet you do the very same thing yourself in that one sentence.

YOU were the one who brought this up.

YOU were the one who has continued to labour on the point.

YOU are the one who is like a dog with a bone in a relentless pursuit to brand a completely inoucous remark as being 'racist'.

Heed you own advice son, and move forward.

[Raving On]

My personal view on this is that there were people in the media holding a vandetta against Vogts out as soon as he got the job on the basis that he wasn't Scottish. There were people in the media calling for Vogts to lose his job far to early and this did no good to anyone except themselves for the journalists own egos. However, I think the time has come for a change on the basis that we can get somebody else decent in to do the job. Strachan said he won't take it for 3/4 years but I can't think of another decent canidate so who gets the job?

[bluetooner]

The man IS a German ffs. Calling him a German is NOT racist.

THis is probably a mistake, but you all criticise people as racists for saying someone is a black *something*, so whats teh difference between the use of German here?

[Raving On]

There's no difference Bluetooner, just the connotations of the respective words.

[Stingraypoindexter]

THis is probably a mistake, but you all criticise people as racists for saying someone is a black *something*, so whats teh difference between the use of German here?

For example - Mr T is a black *man* ????