xbl Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 Today's paper, Israel have announced they are going to blow Gaza "Back to the middle ages". Presumably this is proportional and reasonable? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 the idea of a palestinian people didn't have to exist until britain and france started splitting the land into their own interests and european jews started making claims to areas of arab lands. they have adapted to a system forced upon them by successive oppressors and again the issue is one of territory not identity. it doesn't matter what the arabs on this land called themselves, it was settled arab land for hundreds and hundreds of years. When was the last time that the land had actually been "owned" by the arabs? To say that it was "arab land" is nonsense. It was part of the Ottoman Empire and as you know, the Jews did live in Jerusalem as a majority the bulk of that time. When the zionist movement was happening, they were legitimately buying up land, improving that land and re settling the area in what was actually a barren desert. So, no, it simply WASN'T arab land for hundreds and hundreds of years at all. It was ruled over by several empires after the Romans booted out the Jews. In recent times it was the Ottoman Empire followed by the British Empire. You are HALF right that this is about land. The problem is that as has been stated until I'm sick and tired of repeating myself, this is about Islamists wishing to rid the area of all Jews, and indeed all Christians too for that matter. So regardless of what treaties or ceasefires get implememnted, they will ALWAYS be broken by these Islamists, because they do no want peace with Israel. They want to wipe it, and the Jews, off the face of the planet. If you want to support "a cause" then I think it's important that you fully understand the mindset of the people you are cheerleading for. Yes, the Israelis are utter c***s, and so are the Islamists. The situation will not resolve if Israel goes back to the 1967 borders. The reason for this is that if you care to cast your mind back to then, the Islamists STILL launched attacks on Israel even at that point and at those borders. Indeed, they launched a full scale attack on Israel on DAY ONE of it's formation as a state. So regardless of the borders drawn up, it wouldn't appease Islamists. You simply can't appease these people unless you want a genocide. THAT will appease them. So, like most other people, I do feel sorry for the ordinary arab punters that just want to get on with their lives. Just as I feel sorry for the ordinary Israeli punter who wants to be doing the same. But unless you can wave a magic wand and rid the area of religion then this problem simply isn't going to go away. And Israel could make concession after concession and it wouldn't ACTUALLY matter a f**k, because their enemies don't actually want a Palestinian homeland for reasons already discussed. They want NO JEWS AT ALL, in that part of the world. I,like most people, would like to see the two state solution, but I want it for a different reason to most others. The reason for that is that I know fine that even if this was to happen, it wouldn't matter and the violence still wouldn't stop. I doubt we will ever see a Palestinian homeland anyway. They have been offered this state a few times and have always rejected it. There's no reason to presume they will suddenly accept now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditots Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 The irony is that Israel are just as fascist as nazi Germany, yet we are happy for them to have nuclear weapeons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 http://www.digitaljo.../article/ 337132 "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages," Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai, a member of the ultra-orthodox Shas party, said, according to the leading Israeli daily Haaretz. "Only then will Israel be calm for 40 years." The Orthodox Jewish news site Yeshiva World News also quoted Yishai as saying, "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water." So in addition to starving them, sorry "putting them on a diet" for having the temerity to vote democratically for the wrong party, they are now proposing to flatten Gaza. This all seems reasonable and proportionate. I'm sure the cheerleaders on here will be able to explain to me just why this is reasonable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 The irony is that Israel are just as fascist as nazi Germany, yet we are happy for them to have nuclear weapeons. At least we can all see that you are firmly, and waist deep,entrenched in the buckled leftie c**t mire. I take it you go to Cuba for your holidays too? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditots Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 http://www.digitaljo.../article/ 337132 So in addition to starving them, sorry "putting them on a diet" for having the temerity to vote democratically for the wrong party, they are now proposing to flatten Gaza. This all seems reasonable and proportionate. I'm sure the cheerleaders on here will be able to explain to me just why this is reasonable. Anyone can quote the words of an extremist to back up their argument. The troops may well move in to Gazza but with the eyes of the world on them they are hardly going to flatten the place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 Anyone can quote the words of an extremist to back up their argument. The troops may well move in to Gazza but with the eyes of the world on them they are hardly going to flatten the place. That quote is from an Israeli government minister. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditots Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 When was the last time that the land had actually been "owned" by the arabs? To say that it was "arab land" is nonsense. It was part of the Ottoman Empire and as you know, the Jews did live in Jerusalem as a majority the bulk of that time. When the zionist movement was happening, they were legitimately buying up land, improving that land and re settling the area in what was actually a barren desert. So, no, it simply WASN'T arab land for hundreds and hundreds of years at all. It was ruled over by several empires after the Romans booted out the Jews. In recent times it was the Ottoman Empire followed by the British Empire. You are HALF right that this is about land. The problem is that as has been stated until I'm sick and tired of repeating myself, this is about Islamists wishing to rid the area of all Jews, and indeed all Christians too for that matter. So regardless of what treaties or ceasefires get implememnted, they will ALWAYS be broken by these Islamists, because they do no want peace with Israel. They want to wipe it, and the Jews, off the face of the planet. If you want to support "a cause" then I think it's important that you fully understand the mindset of the people you are cheerleading for. Yes, the Israelis are utter c***s, and so are the Islamists. The situation will not resolve if Israel goes back to the 1967 borders. The reason for this is that if you care to cast your mind back to then, the Islamists STILL launched attacks on Israel even at that point and at those borders. Indeed, they launched a full scale attack on Israel on DAY ONE of it's formation as a state. So regardless of the borders drawn up, it wouldn't appease Islamists. You simply can't appease these people unless you want a genocide. THAT will appease them. So, like most other people, I do feel sorry for the ordinary arab punters that just want to get on with their lives. Just as I feel sorry for the ordinary Israeli punter who wants to be doing the same. But unless you can wave a magic wand and rid the area of religion then this problem simply isn't going to go away. And Israel could make concession after concession and it wouldn't ACTUALLY matter a f**k, because their enemies don't actually want a Palestinian homeland for reasons already discussed. They want NO JEWS AT ALL, in that part of the world. I,like most people, would like to see the two state solution, but I want it for a different reason to most others. The reason for that is that I know fine that even if this was to happen, it wouldn't matter and the violence still wouldn't stop. I doubt we will ever see a Palestinian homeland anyway. They have been offered this state a few times and have always rejected it. There's no reason to presume they will suddenly accept now. This is my views exactly. Yet on this forum you are either on one side or the other. There will never be peace in this area. It's like a volcano, every now and then it erupts to release the pressure. All the West can do is try and use their influence to calm things back down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Rice Half Chips Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 The troops may well move in to Gazza but with the eyes of the world on them they are hardly going to flatten the place. If we know anything about Israel, anything at all, it's that they don't give a flying f**k what the rest of the world thinks of them. PS leave paul gascoigne out of this, he's got enough problems of his own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditots Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 That quote is from an Israeli government minister. Yes a member of the more extremest parties in the coalition government. His views will have little influence. The media have pounced on his statement just to get a good headline. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditots Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 If we know anything about Israel, anything at all, it's that they don't give a flying f**k what the rest of the world thinks of them. PS leave paul gascoigne out of this, he's got enough problems of his own. Probably more the case in recent years. Now that they don't need the US so much to bankroll them. They will still know where the boundary is. Unfortunately I'm sure they will push it to the limit as I think we all agree there is know love lost between the two sides. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-18 ICBM Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Anyone can quote the words of an extremist to back up their argument. We know, Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu the current Prime Minister of Israel has been doing that daily for decades and so have his predecessors (who are mostly former terrorists). The troops may well move in to Gazza but with the eyes of the world on them they are hardly going to flatten the place. 'Gaza' not Gazza. The "eyes of the world" have watched Israel and many other nations mass murdering innocent people around the world in the past. Can you give any good reasons as to why you believe that 2012 or any year that follows will be any different from previous times in which such events have transpired? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 The "eyes of the world" have watched Israel and many other nations mass murdering innocent people around the world in the past. Can you give any good reasons as to why you believe that 2012 or any year that follows will be any different from previous times in which such events have transpired? I don't think it will be, war is part of life all across the world sadly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Rice Half Chips Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I think we all agree there is no love lost between the two sides. This is what's known as "understatement". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckles Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 This is my views exactly. Yet on this forum you are either on one side or the other. There will never be peace in this area. It's like a volcano, every now and then it erupts to release the pressure. All the West can do is try and use their influence to calm things back down. Yup, you just gotta love P&B ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 At least we can all see that you are firmly, and waist deep,entrenched in the buckled leftie c**t mire. I take it you go to Cuba for your holidays too? Seriously though, I think Cuba would be a fucking amazing place to go on holiday. That quote is from an Israeli government minister. Hmm, I seem to recall a certain neoconservative American saying something similar with regards Afghanistan. Yes a member of the more extremest parties in the coalition government. His views will have little influence. The media have pounced on his statement just to get a good headline. His views will have little influence? He's the interior minister! Bet you they do. But anyway, the Israeli leadership has a great track record with "meaningless" rhetoric, don't they? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Anyone can quote the words of an extremist to back up their argument. The troops may well move in to Gazza but with the eyes of the world on them they are hardly going to flatten the place. Should that not be on one of the BEAST threads? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 That quote is from an Israeli government minister. And? Is it not a power sharing coalition? In order to form a government there are some extreme elements involved, that's probably what his party would like to happen, but it won't. It would be a bit like if Northern Ireland was in dispute with, say, a semi-autonomous South Armagh, and the leader of the UDA said something similar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-18 ICBM Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) I don't think it will be, war is part of life all across the world sadly. Everyone who has studied World History, traveled the world and taken a serious interest in World Affairs during their life knows that Feudalism and Empire (Corporation) building have been going on around this planet for many millenniums. Wars containing infinite numbers of conflicts are just one part of the Modus Operandi of those who are and have been behind the millenniums old Global Feuds that are and have been ongoing over land and resources (including humans). A former President of The Corporation of the United States once said that "Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind... War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." Shortly after he said that, 'the eyes of the world' witnessed (on their television screens) the top of his head blown off LIVE in front of the people in The United Corporate States Of America. He wasn't the first man or woman to die after speaking truth, and he wasn't the last, there have been infinite numbers of men, women and children around the world whose lives have been brought to a sudden instantaneous end by people who prefer death & destruction to peace & equality on earth. Enough said. Edited November 18, 2012 by SS-18 ICBM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Everyone who has studied World History, traveled the world and taken a serious interest in World Affairs during their life knows that Feudalism and Empire (Corporation) building have been going on around this planet for many millenniums. Feudalism was a European phenomenon that has not 'been going on' for 'milleniums' [sic]. You're a fucking idiot who doesn't know what you're talking about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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