Freedom Farter Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) The big debate over the al-Ahli hospital blast a week ago mostly focused on who fired the rocket that caused the blast. Less debated although it was mentioned in this thread was that original media reporting of the total number of deaths from the blast was soon revised down substantially. If you remember, media initially reported the number of deaths as around 500. Then in the next day or two, the 500 figure was revised down by about a factor of 10. Media universally blamed their initial wrong figure on "Hamas" or more specifically the Gazan Health Ministry. Well this journalist went digging for that Gazan Health Ministry quote of 500 deaths: https://www.silentlunch.net/p/did-the-entire-media-industry-misquote He didn't find it. What he did find was that the Gazan Health Ministry reported to Arabic language media that the blast had caused around 500 people to need medical treatment. Not 500 deaths. Nobody in Gaza ever said that about the al-Ahli hospital blast. What happened was that in the process of Arabic language reports being translated into English language reports, wires got crossed. The Arabic word used to describe injured persons translates literally into "casualties" in English. Someone at Al Jazeera then misinterpreted that as meaning deaths and tweeted it out. That was probaly an honest error and there's every chance the tweet would've been corrected in time once the error was realised. Too late, though, from that single Al Jazeera tweet it went to the Associated press and once there all the major news outlets picked it up and ran with it. So the Gazan Health Ministry got blamed for something they never said because the media didn't want to admit they all fucked up, all just copied each other, and none of them bothered to check the primary source for what they were reporting. Edited October 30, 2023 by Freedom Farter 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 7 hours ago, sophia said: Further, if his point is to be accepted and they had no control over murderous mobs, that is very weak position for them to be in. And a very real one. There are, and have been, a number of “Governments” (in place, exile or absentia) with similar issues. Sinn Féin, for instance, had somewhat limited relations with the IRA, while being their de facto political wing. East Pakistan would be another example, with India effectively controlling the revolutionary forces during their war of independence, as would Vichy France, with its wide range of military forces all over choosing differing paths. Temporary, limited or hamstrung “Governments” often find themselves held hostage for the acts of their military parallel's, so it really shouldn’t be a surprise that the situation in Gaza is any different. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Here's the Le Monde article again on that: https://archive.ph/lKf4u 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Palestinian-American activist talking about the distance between people and their governments as well as the powerlessness of international law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said: Palestinian-American activist talking about the distance between people and their governments as well as the powerlessness of international law. Of course international law is powerless. Israel has been flouting international law for decades. The one thing that could stop Israel is if the U.S. told them to pack it in and of course they won’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Of course international law is powerless. Israel has been flouting international law for decades. The one thing that could stop Israel is if the U.S. told them to pack it in and of course they won’t. I think what he said about the divide between governments and their people was interesting. If you look at the polling on this issue, there's an enormous difference between age cohorts, where the young (gen Z) are the most sympathetic to Palestinian concerns generally and the most supportive of ending the current violence being visited upon Gazans. My speculation is that young folk have grown up better informed about the global population. Their concept of what and who is foreign is far less pronounced than it was for previous generations growing up. There was probably a time when WW2 wasn't so long in the past and then with the advent of the Cold War when folk just put full trust in their state. The complete lack of democracy we have over international issues was accepted because it was believed we were trading that reduction in democracy for an increase in security. Our state and our government, our wider "western" elites were keeping us safe from the barbarians at the gate, from the scary foreigners out there in the rest of the world. Folk aren't buying that so much now, especially the young. More democracy is needed. This is just the latest issue we're seeing the discontent manifest over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Nice to see our Home Secretary being so rational about the protests.... "Home secretary Suella Braverman has condemned the pro-Palestine rallies held across the UK in recent weeks as “hate marches”." From - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/suella-braverman-palestine-protests-israel-b2438478.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy McJagface Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: Nice to see our Home Secretary being so rational about the protests.... "Home secretary Suella Braverman has condemned the pro-Palestine rallies held across the UK in recent weeks as “hate marches”." From - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/suella-braverman-palestine-protests-israel-b2438478.html Surely Suella would feel right at home in them then? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Freedom Farter said: I think what he said about the divide between governments and their people was interesting. If you haven't already, then you should read Peter Mair's Ruling the Void if this sort of stuff interests you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Come on, Biden, you can at least tell them to keep hospitals off their target list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Jaggy McJagface said: Surely Suella would feel right at home in them then? I’ve posted before that I think Braverman is trying to compensate for something from her childhood; possibly bullying. I can’t think of anything else that make her such a hateful person. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Freedom Farter said: Come on, Biden, you can at least tell them to keep hospitals off their target list. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Israelis choose not to bomb the hospital, possibly after US ‘intervention’, then this is portrayed as a humanitarian gesture. ’Look the Israeli government didn’t do a horrible thing that should never have been under consideration so they must really be good guys’ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyman Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 https://news.sky.com/story/andy-mcdonald-senior-labour-mp-suspended-over-deeply-offensive-comments-at-pro-palestine-rally-12996759 Absolute wow...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 The same phrase is in first paragraph of the Likud Party constitution: Quote .....between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyman Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 38 minutes ago, andrew21 said: Full speech recorded on his twitter account. Personally, I find nothing offensive about that esp when the the same sort of phrase is used by the Likud party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Joe Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Strong Likud Party vibes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Had a look at Twitter today and realised that Palestine is the Celtic equivalent of Rangers’ ‘poppy fetish’. Saw some Celtic fan painted Palestine flags on her nails and another was asking how she could adopt a Palestinian child 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 This is absolutely grotesque, deeply antisemitic and grossly offensive to Holocaust survivors. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Their PR is woeful, absolute clownshoe stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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