Handsome_Devil

If he pings one in v United I hope he runs down the east stand, hand to ear, townsley style.

In Ketts we trust and all that bollocks but even though he has earned the right to do whatever he wants, if we line up against the Red Lion XI in early July playing 4-3-3 I will have the fear. It's just too soon, don't do this to us again.

Fwiw I'd agree...most of our good seasons, off the top of my head, are based on a strong 15 or so staying fit and bodies filling in when needed. Us having a big squad is usually a sign something has gone wrong already... Your point about the job is also very relevant though - if you deliberately carry a small squad and get found out you look utterly incompetent in a way which is hard to excuse compared to the normal breaks and luck of the game.

If you don't have an accident, was insurance a waste of money? You could well be right and we could absolutely get away with it. On the other hand, one of them could tear a cruciate, the Campbell is the new Bobby Donnelly rather than Hutchison and we're walking a fine line for months. So it's all about balancing risk. Not far off a glorified guess on getting lucky or unlucky with injuries. The notion of a season where we had five viable first team keepers would have bee hilarious until it happened! I agree it's why we need a balance of specialist and generalists, as it were...McGinn being just about passable in around five positions is a massive help.

Aye, fair point. It comes back to the usual tricky balancing act of playing three at the back so needing two as cover - so how good will Motherwell's fifth choice centre back ever be?

Re Lamie and Mugabi, keeping one as cover is fine. Keeping both - potentially on decent wages given how they re-signed - is not. I think one of the things that gets forgotten with three at the back is while it might make defending easier for Lamie, say, he's not really the guy you want striding out. Bevis even less so. And if we assume most sides play 4-3-3/4-5-1, the maths means you can't have three boys at the back scared to go forward. Butcher can obviously do it, having played in midfield, but you see the massive difference between our right hand side with McGinn (former full back, comfortable on the ball) getting up to support in contrast with Casey, who as the team hard man looks like he'd rather stab the ball than have it at his feet. Ending up in a scenario where we're using Lamie/Mugabi regularly in. 3-5-2 probably won't hurt us as much defensively as this season but it'll still end up screwing us...getting at least one to buggery is a major priority.

I don't think he can play any other way TBF...a couple of his efforts at football in the second half were head in hands stuff. His attempt with the last kick of the first half was brilliant mind.

One of the things that's brutal with VAR is you've no idea what's going on. Was the penalty for the first challenge or second? Was it overturned for the second or the mutual shirt-pulling before? Farce regardless of the outcome.

Doubt County will appreciate it much atm but agree they're more solid than the other pair. Would expect them to win on Wednesday but they still need to survive a one-off on that plastic which is hardly an ideal scenario.

Well that was hilarious. Presumably the county penalty was overturned because he was on the way down pre-contact (purely because I can't see anything else at all)? Very harsh given how things are given these days. The handball was also a penalty on the current rulebook but I'm not convinced he knew anything about it. We probably had a touch more threat despite county having more of the play second half so we deserved at least a draw. The win, not so much.

Utterly bizarre. County on top now though, we're struggling.

It looks like the sort of afternoon both teams are happy(ish) with a point.

From Twitter: The first Motherwell player for 86 years to score in 8 consecutive games. Hugh Ferguson, 1919-20, 16 goals in the first 10 games of the season. Duncan Ogilvie, 1937-38, 12 goals, 9 games. King Kevin van Veen, 2022-23, 11 goals in 8 games.

It's a great pub debate that because it's entirely subjective. It might have worked, yep, but we would still have been soft as shite at the back and unless Hammell had gone to a defensive three, we'd still have been weak in midfield. It's certainly hard to think we'd have been much worse though... we'd probably have fallen into the dangerous area of good enough to keep hammell employed, not good enough to be safe.

Kilmarnock v St Johnstone - draw Livingston v Dundee United - away win Motherwell v Ross County - home win 9. St Johnstone - 37 10. Kilmarnock - 35 ------------------ 11. United - 34 ------------------ 12. County - 33 Dundee United v Kilmarnock - draw Ross County v St Johnstone - home win going into last day is then st j 37 County 36 Killie 36 united 35 if my sums while distracted at the play park are correct. Which would leave St Johnstone on the verge of safety with a result but the Killie v County decider wildly in the air, very dependent on Fir Park and a little on Perth. You'd love to see it.

Oh, he's absolutely for the glue factory, no doubt about it. If - massive if - we think he has coaching potential, I have nothing against him joining the academy at whatever level while he does his badges. And if SK is willing, sure, register him as a player for emergencies or 15-20 minute cameos. But even then, him being number 20 on the bench takes a spot/minutes a 17-year-old can get. It's a massive shame but time for everyone - Moult included, really - to accept he's just not capable of being a full-time pro any more.

If he's willing to play for pennies, is he not worth the gamble, MY GOD NO IT'S STARTING AGAIN ISNT IT?!?

I'm another one reconsidering my conviction the top-flight side were a banker. The odds are definitely still against them but a good win at home in the first leg against, say, a United who can't defend, certainly isn't impossible. And from there who knows.

I know he got the second v St J but really his last two attempts have basically been utter guff - Kettlewell should fire him up at 2.59pm tomorrow by telling him Mandron is now on penalty duty...

The money is an interesting one and while it obviously didn't work out as hoped, I'm happy we were willing to try it. I'm fine spending 'big' money on a goalkeeper. Indeed, I'd have him as our highest earner, and if we don't recoup that in transfer fees no problem - the difference it makes week in week out is enough. The rest comes into calculated risk and reward...spend a bit to move out of the freebie market and how much more likely are you to do well on and off the pitch? Most were happy we were attempting to move from the Robinson one-year contract scattergun by paying a bit more for fewer and hopefully better. The simple maths says buy five guys at 200k, three are fair value, one fails and one properly succeeds, and not only have we probably gained on the pitch we'll probably recoup all our outlay in one fee. Sadly, as we've seen, the theory is mich easier than the practice of finding these players!

Presumably a lot of that transfer expense was Kelly (so not Alexander) but SSJ and Slattery presumably come under his ownership...so rather than a 'you don't have any money', it was maybe 'you spent this year's budget last year given the new long-term contract approach'. But who knows. Re last summer, completely agree, and like you the more I think about it the more I want to pound the wall. No because it went wrong - it was always going to go wrong! - but for the life of me I can't see what 'winning' would have been for the neither backing or sacking plan. If we'd beat Sligo, you couldn't have sacked Alexander immediately, so if you're giving him the window it's then plus a wee while to let the players settle. Did we assume he could turn it round with half backing? Or that we could be shit till November and a replacement would turn it round? Alternatively we lose to Sligo, as happened, but then there was no plan in place to get a manager and, without relitigating, we ended up with a Hobson's choice which again was doomed to failure. I'd like our board freshened up but I'm actually very tolerant of errors we make - it's nearly always tough choices made with the best if intentions. Last summer was a total shitshow however and what's worse is anyone thinking about it, back in May, could see within 10 minutes that neither sticking or twisting on the manager was only going to end in disaster. I would love, in a few years, for Flow or anyone else to explain the rationale because I sure as f**k can't even see a theory for success there. It's an absolute miracle we are where we are now and we will almost certainly never be so lucky again.

The level of the Championship varies hugely from time to time (not unreasonably, just look at the top-flight!). And after a few seasons when going down would have meant an extended stay, it is now at such a level I was confident (in February) we'd rebuild and win it in 2024 - however, the harder part of re-establishing ourselves would be still to come. As for the different grounds, it's taking a positive from a bad situation...I don't know anyone who'd volunteer for it.

Dunno...I think the relegation as fresh start theory works for someone with the resources of Hearts, borderline Hibs but not convinced it works much lower down the food chain, it at least is far from guaranteed. It'll certainly get the fans who remain pumped up again, which is a plus, but I think recovering from relegation is much harder on a long-term basis than folk realise. United survived solidly enough on their season back but were grim enough to chase the manager. They were then fourth (!) as best of the rotten rest, chase another manager and now this season. Killie came back first time of asking and rather than return to the middle tableness their size suggests, are in an epic survival battle and their poty is the pitch. If United go down, given their financial situation, it could (not saying will, it obviously depends) get very hairy, very quickly.

Aye, and the Hibs one was when Rangers were a championship side iirc. We've been unlucky at times. McCall's sides lost to Hibs on penalties after McHugh's winner was wrongly chalked off, the usually reliable higdon missed a pen v Aberdeen. But we also lost twice to third division sides and 10 man Aberdeen...you fair cut your chances of getting lucky if you do things like that...

Quite right.