Handsome_Devil

It's a great pub debate that because it's entirely subjective. It might have worked, yep, but we would still have been soft as shite at the back and unless Hammell had gone to a defensive three, we'd still have been weak in midfield. It's certainly hard to think we'd have been much worse though... we'd probably have fallen into the dangerous area of good enough to keep hammell employed, not good enough to be safe.

Kilmarnock v St Johnstone - draw Livingston v Dundee United - away win Motherwell v Ross County - home win 9. St Johnstone - 37 10. Kilmarnock - 35 ------------------ 11. United - 34 ------------------ 12. County - 33 Dundee United v Kilmarnock - draw Ross County v St Johnstone - home win going into last day is then st j 37 County 36 Killie 36 united 35 if my sums while distracted at the play park are correct. Which would leave St Johnstone on the verge of safety with a result but the Killie v County decider wildly in the air, very dependent on Fir Park and a little on Perth. You'd love to see it.

Oh, he's absolutely for the glue factory, no doubt about it. If - massive if - we think he has coaching potential, I have nothing against him joining the academy at whatever level while he does his badges. And if SK is willing, sure, register him as a player for emergencies or 15-20 minute cameos. But even then, him being number 20 on the bench takes a spot/minutes a 17-year-old can get. It's a massive shame but time for everyone - Moult included, really - to accept he's just not capable of being a full-time pro any more.

If he's willing to play for pennies, is he not worth the gamble, MY GOD NO IT'S STARTING AGAIN ISNT IT?!?

I'm another one reconsidering my conviction the top-flight side were a banker. The odds are definitely still against them but a good win at home in the first leg against, say, a United who can't defend, certainly isn't impossible. And from there who knows.

I know he got the second v St J but really his last two attempts have basically been utter guff - Kettlewell should fire him up at 2.59pm tomorrow by telling him Mandron is now on penalty duty...

The money is an interesting one and while it obviously didn't work out as hoped, I'm happy we were willing to try it. I'm fine spending 'big' money on a goalkeeper. Indeed, I'd have him as our highest earner, and if we don't recoup that in transfer fees no problem - the difference it makes week in week out is enough. The rest comes into calculated risk and reward...spend a bit to move out of the freebie market and how much more likely are you to do well on and off the pitch? Most were happy we were attempting to move from the Robinson one-year contract scattergun by paying a bit more for fewer and hopefully better. The simple maths says buy five guys at 200k, three are fair value, one fails and one properly succeeds, and not only have we probably gained on the pitch we'll probably recoup all our outlay in one fee. Sadly, as we've seen, the theory is mich easier than the practice of finding these players!

Presumably a lot of that transfer expense was Kelly (so not Alexander) but SSJ and Slattery presumably come under his ownership...so rather than a 'you don't have any money', it was maybe 'you spent this year's budget last year given the new long-term contract approach'. But who knows. Re last summer, completely agree, and like you the more I think about it the more I want to pound the wall. No because it went wrong - it was always going to go wrong! - but for the life of me I can't see what 'winning' would have been for the neither backing or sacking plan. If we'd beat Sligo, you couldn't have sacked Alexander immediately, so if you're giving him the window it's then plus a wee while to let the players settle. Did we assume he could turn it round with half backing? Or that we could be shit till November and a replacement would turn it round? Alternatively we lose to Sligo, as happened, but then there was no plan in place to get a manager and, without relitigating, we ended up with a Hobson's choice which again was doomed to failure. I'd like our board freshened up but I'm actually very tolerant of errors we make - it's nearly always tough choices made with the best if intentions. Last summer was a total shitshow however and what's worse is anyone thinking about it, back in May, could see within 10 minutes that neither sticking or twisting on the manager was only going to end in disaster. I would love, in a few years, for Flow or anyone else to explain the rationale because I sure as f**k can't even see a theory for success there. It's an absolute miracle we are where we are now and we will almost certainly never be so lucky again.

The level of the Championship varies hugely from time to time (not unreasonably, just look at the top-flight!). And after a few seasons when going down would have meant an extended stay, it is now at such a level I was confident (in February) we'd rebuild and win it in 2024 - however, the harder part of re-establishing ourselves would be still to come. As for the different grounds, it's taking a positive from a bad situation...I don't know anyone who'd volunteer for it.

Dunno...I think the relegation as fresh start theory works for someone with the resources of Hearts, borderline Hibs but not convinced it works much lower down the food chain, it at least is far from guaranteed. It'll certainly get the fans who remain pumped up again, which is a plus, but I think recovering from relegation is much harder on a long-term basis than folk realise. United survived solidly enough on their season back but were grim enough to chase the manager. They were then fourth (!) as best of the rotten rest, chase another manager and now this season. Killie came back first time of asking and rather than return to the middle tableness their size suggests, are in an epic survival battle and their poty is the pitch. If United go down, given their financial situation, it could (not saying will, it obviously depends) get very hairy, very quickly.

Aye, and the Hibs one was when Rangers were a championship side iirc. We've been unlucky at times. McCall's sides lost to Hibs on penalties after McHugh's winner was wrongly chalked off, the usually reliable higdon missed a pen v Aberdeen. But we also lost twice to third division sides and 10 man Aberdeen...you fair cut your chances of getting lucky if you do things like that...

Quite right.

If that's the case his little hamstring issue might extend for the next three games...

Given the nerves I had before finals we would 99% lose, I dunno how i'd cope with one against a peer. And the thought of the absolute terror I'd have if we were somehow favourites almost makes me prefer yet another pumping off Celtic!

I'm happy to see the cups spread around so St Mirren, Livingston etc winning one after us doesn't bother me at all. Those who have two begin to raise an eyebrow but even then Aberdeen, United and Killie have had just one more spread over decades so I'm largely meh. What does annoy me is some reaching three since we last had one (Hibs, Hearts, St Johnstone), because my inner whining voice says 'but we're due'...which is ridiculous, as you say. You can, of course also compare us to Dunfermline and Dundee - if you'd told them after their last trophies, which both came not that long after the previous one, what lay ahead in their 50+ year drought to come they'd have laughed at you.

I would like to see a ban on 91 being mentioned, used to sell things, name lounges or generally appearing on any official channels outside of round anniversaries until we win something again. That said...what a day. What a team too. I caught up with my United mate at Xmas and we agreed one of the great things about that final were XIs were absolutely stuffed full of iconic players who had massive club association over several years (and in our case even then the two most 'journeyman' pros passing through went and scored). Assuming we win something again in my lifetime (alarmingly no longer as certain as it seemed), it'll be be amazing but doing so with a functional collection of short-term deals and loan players just won't be the same.

Aye, I was agreeing with you.

If I were you I'd very much see United winning at us on the last day. With a few games to go contracts are still up in the air, by the last day all that's decided and players (possibly with one exception!) are on the beach. We'd have finished seventh with a last day result (draw or win, I forget) against County last season, played at walking pace and got beat 2-1 from 1-0 up. If United need a result at FP (which looks pretty certain), they'll bring a huge support and will probably get it on desire alone.

I'm sure it's not quite meant like that because free hit is a mental take given your situation I understand that the next game is the bigger one. If St Johnstone beat Killie, they're safe and you're playing at home a team out form with nothing left to play for. If they lose, you have a huge six-pointer. They'll know, however, that 10 of our players are likely to be in beachwear v Dundee United so assuming we lose on the last day, County losing on Saturday basically leaves no room for error elsewhere.

I'd be happy to have him at FP to start his coaching career, if that's what he wants, and if there's no pressure on him rushing back to a first team maybe he'll even get fit and healthy (ish). But he was done as a professional footballer before we signed him last time, doing it again with the expectation of anything else would be madness.

I'd be looking to keep him but I think SK has made it clear he's not interested. It's remarkable given he was arguably our poty until mid-February.

Back to the present day: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/mikael-mandron-motherwell-future-addressed-29984312 Bit vague but he could also have batted that away easily with a digital implication.

It always amazes me none of our more video minded fans have done a goals/skills compilation of his full time with us.

That fantasy scenario for everyone else is Killie need a point to guarantee 11th on the last day while knowing a win could lift them above County but a loss could see them fall below United. Decisions and drama all over the shop before the hilarity of an utter stitch up in the last 10 minutes.

You'd be best saving your money...at least for those odds. Killie playing both United and county narrows your path to bottom considerably and even then you're still one scrambled draw from avoiding it (probably). I don't think St Johnstone will finish in the bottom two but if you slip down there it definitely won't be 12th.