Buddist Monk
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Posts posted by Buddist Monk
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My take on this? Div should stop biting, and that Grant lad seems capable of starting a fight in an empty room. With that in mind... onto Jack Ross.
Do we think the Sunderland thing is completely nailed on? With Barnsley I knew he wouldn't go, with Ipswich it looked a possibility and with Sunderland (considering the context) I thought it would be too much of an opportunity to knock back. Now though, with the delay, I'm not so sure with that. I'd say the odds that he moves are much greater, the "seal has been broken" as it were and a MotY speaking to all sorts of clubs will continue too attract interest. However, the Sunderland chairman was really really adamant Ross was the man, which I suppose can only be considered a compliment, but as permission to speak to him was granted a few days ago and with the chairman's effective "the job is yours if you want it" comments it's interesting we haven't seen more movement.
At this moment I still think he's gone, and I wish him all the best even if the Sunderland thing looks a bit dodgy with tapping, but does anyone think the Sunderland thing is not going to happen?
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1 hour ago, Bobby_F said:
So, err, Jack Ross?
Still technically our manager. Imagine the #scenes if he rebuffed both Ipswich and Sunderland then signed his new contract...
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My only question is in which forum the "St Mirren's Next Manager" thread will reside; here or 'upstairs'?
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1 minute ago, djchapsticks said:
£25 on Neilson as it wouldn't let me stake £50.
Not sure who the bookies are getting their tips from, but it's fair to say at least 10 of the 12 can be ruled out for all sorts of reasons. Reasons any sensible Scottish football observer would know, not the bookies though...
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7 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:
You can wax on all you like about the talent Jack Ross has (I'm not disagreeing with you), but it's completely irrelevant. Compensation if it isn't already spelled out in the contract will based on the financial value of that contract. There's no argument here, your own club's statement already concedes Sunderland have agreed the terms and the speed in which it went from "no contact has been made" to "terms agreed" suggests it was a fixed sum and not up for much negotiation.
I think it'll end up with both clubs pushing until they find an acceptable middle ground. Can't see it going to arbitration. I was more musing that should it do so we would have some weight behind our case.
I honestly don't know about the contract, and I doubt we ever will. Buyout is obviously a possibility, not sure I go with your suggestion though.
4 minutes ago, buddie06smfc said:Mind boggling amount of pish.
Is this the standard? Can't say I've read many of their posts but most of the ones about us have been complete mince.
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Oh, one other fun thing in all this - the new owners sacked the Bain, the ex Rangers Chief.
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2 minutes ago, buddie06smfc said:
Wonderful move for Jack Ross, I wish him all the very best. Sunderland are a huge club in that piss poor league. He’ll be a major success there no doubt.
He’s left us as an attractive proposition for any new manager. When he took over we were far from that.This.
Ok, it's not great to lose him but 18 months ago we were an absolute mess. We most certainly aren't now.
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Just now, Skyline Drifter said:
Whatever it is it will be peanuts to Sunderland.
Let's get this one out of the way first, you are totally right it will be which is all the reason to squeeze them for as much as possible. As you say, peanuts to them.
Just now, Skyline Drifter said:I'd be very surprised if he doesn't have a buyout clause in his contract and it's not going to be for £200k+ in a month of Sundays.
I'd be surprised if there is, as his contract wasn't updated after the Barnsley incident so his contract would have been from the start of this season. It's very unlikely either he or the club would be looking at the buyout clauses from a manager who finished 8th in a 10 team league.
As for the £200k, anyone could easily make a case for that as he's been crowned manager of the year ahead of such notables as Rodgers and/or Clarke. Now you and I both know the context to that, but ultimately if it got so far as to be arguing over the money the MotY will heavily weight any CAS compensation (if they took it that far).
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Just now, Jacksgranda said:
Thanks. Still think it's a bit of a gamble.
Yeah, I mean we could throw out the "every managerial job is a gamble" shenanigans, but there is going to be a sweet spot where Sunderland have plateaued and are ripe for a decent manager to push them back to the big time.
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9 minutes ago, Poet of the Macabre said:
Why is Jack Ross so desperate to leave St Mirren?
Once you've seen off Dunfermline, what more is there to achieve in Scotland?
1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:When I read the headline on the BBC football site (Ross to be announced as Sunderland manager), I thought "Is he mad?".
What has changed at Sunderland to entice in a half sensible/decent manager?
It's not the same Sunderland that McInnes was touted for. Change of ownership, removal of debt. Is it still a basket case? Yes, but it's less than it was and the path is there to turn it around. As I said earlier, whether he's timed it right we will know in about 6 months time.
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1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:
Didn't Gordon Ross pull this stunt with us as well? Accusing Nelms of tapping Ross up. Purely to save face IMO. He's powerless.
Publicly announcing it then flying to the location another club's manager is on holiday somewhat takes the shine off your suggestion it was only an "accusation". It's quite clear that was what Nelms was up to. Ross staying put only demonstrated Dundee are not an attractive club to go to, that's why you had to go begging to the manager who blew you off.
You are right about the limited power we have, but that's the same for all clubs and the same for players as well as managers. All we can do is keep to the rules, hammer them for compensation and if it's not enough report them for tapping up.
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1 minute ago, RossC93 said:
I don't think they have any other choice, they need to play this by the book as it's looking like a clear case of tapping up. It all depends on the size of balls on Scott as to just how far this can be pushed.
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Some interesting quotes:
Sky Sports...
SpoilerSunderland are paying St Mirren £50,000 in compensation for their manager, and are believed to have offered Ross five times what he is being paid in Scotland.
Gordon Scott...
Spoiler"been no contact from Sunderland".
"Jack is on holiday. So unless there is some major skullduggery going on then it's nonsense."
"To hold talks with Jack, we would have to grant permission, but we've had no contact from Sunderland at all."
This should be fun. 50K is laughable you would looking at least 4 or 5 times that value and as he's under contract to us that is entirely reasonable, so I'm guessing Sky have probably asked Sunderland how much they are going to pay when they finally get round to asking us and they threw out a derisory figure.
Of course, there could be something in Ross' contract that allows for him to move for nominal compensation if "a bigger club" comes in. Even if that is the case could you argue that a club languishing 3 levels below their top division be considered "a bigger club" than on that is in the top division in another country. While we all know the sensible answer is "yes, it's fucking Sunderland of course it's bigger", legally though that is a tough one to get past a judge.
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Glad this has been sorted out, now we have the whole summer to sort out a replacement, look forward to the compensation (and possibly an extra whack not to report them for tapping up) and the money from the McGinn transfer. Combine that with the extra revenue from the top league with the club currently having first division budgets and we are looking pretty sweet.
Bit of a shame Ross has gone, but that's just football. Not sure if he's timed the Sunderland option right, we will need to wait and see, but it's fair to say he won't be out of pocket no matter what happens.
Funnily enough though, in the Ross chasing statistics, Sunderland seems to be more of a dodgy club than Dundee. Not a statement I'd expected to have written.
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Nothing there yet, the guy just comments it's a completed deal, but the thread might develop... http://www.shotsweb.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47610&sid=e21b24841b66d692195d4a53622ae502
Also, this.. https://www.theshots.co.uk/shots-release-six/ ..which would suggest he was not offered a new deal with them before opting for us.
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6 minutes ago, glenburn bud said:
You got what you wanted bud, Someone completely unexpected.
Spoiler
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So this lad? https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/james-kellermann/leistungsdaten/spieler/202945
Sadly TransferMarkt have stopped adding crazy values to their player profiles.
Edit: Looking through the detailed view TM have him playing predominantly CM but also on both wings on the occasion.
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58 minutes ago, kanyewestbank said:
Will the new manager rate him ?
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11 hours ago, buddie06smfc said:
I don’t expect Jack Ross to down tools while this is all going on.
I think this is probably the most cogent point.
Whether he goes or not, we are not in a position where there is acrimony between him and the board or him and the fans and I think it's very important we keep it like that. I don't feel putting pressure on him will help.
Even if he does go then you can expect him to be mindful of the club he's leaving (and rightly so, this is not just a one way relationship Ross has benefited from St Mirren as vice versa) rather than clearing out as quickly as possible and leaving a mess behind.
From a more holistic viewpoint I think managers might need to adhere to some sort of window in the same way players do, and I've thought that since the player window was introduced (not just because our manager is currently in that position). I feel this affects Scottish clubs more because we don't work in a DoF/HC environment, but as my previous comments have outlined there is no easy way to implement such a thing and whether it would work is open to question.
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15 minutes ago, Jamie_M said:
They had a meeting, prepped a deal, were going to offer it but Jack pulled out/wasn't getting the Barnsley gig, so the new deal never happened.
He was always due a renegotiation after promotion.
http://www.the-gazette.co.uk/sport/16029213._He___s_showed_unbelievable_loyalty_to_our_football_club__St_Mirren_chief_Tony_Fitzpatrick_delighted_with_Jack_Ross__decision_to_stay_in_Paisley/Thanks for the info.
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1 hour ago, Jamie_M said:
He didn't get the improved contract at the Barnsley interest.
There was some very strong chat about it at the time. With all the hubbub about getting promoted I'll admit I never followed the story up and honestly thought he had.
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9 minutes ago, kanyewestbank said:
BBC reporting that Jack Ross has been offered an improved contract by St Mirren .
Link to story: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44203044
I guess he would have been on course for an improved deal just for getting the team up, you might imagine some of that would have been touched on when he improved his contract surrounding the Barnsley situation. I do feel this wouldn't have popped up so early as it has if there wasn't interest from Ipswich.
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1 minute ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:
I believe in the parlance of our times, that is a gammon.
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7 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:
..but now surely they can't get any worse.
Just look at Blackburn Rovers, every time you thought they had plateaued they dropped another level. Granted that is an extreme case with all sorts of shit going on in the background, but it definitely highlights the need to be careful on timing. Sunderland aren't Rovers, but it is interesting seeing both clubs effectively drop straight down the divisions when there are problems at boardroom level.
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The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread
in Scottish Premiership General Chatter
Posted
I fully expect the following, presented (as is the way) in meme format...