lyle be back

Interestingly, Skyline's point above throws a different perspective on this. If you are the SFL, you have a meeting. Livi are not in administration. They give you a financial bond to show that they can fulfil their fixtures next season. Presumably as intimated above WLC have provided some sort of evidence that they will work with the new owners both to get the ground its safety certificate and re the rent arrears. What can you do them on - Livi have fulfilled their fixtures, can demonstrate they can fulfil their fixtures. As far as I know the SFL are not concerned about creditors being messed up (presumably taking the view that that is a business decision taken by creditors when doing business with Livi). Yes the players were not paid, but it appears that this was done voluntarily re last wekened (I don't know re historic non payments). The more you think about it - the more Massone is right - as long as you continue to pay the players you can get away with it. If I was a businessman or a bank, I would be recalling overdraft facilities plus demanding payment up front from a lot of other clubs now. They now know that the SFL don't care about creditors - and why should they?

So Massone was right - Livi are not in administration? I missed this (easy when you have 270 pages and if you miss a day you are 30 behind!)

I'm not going to plough through the 30-odd pages that have been added since last night but have a few questions (apologies if they have been asked before). 1. I thought someone had posted something about the SFL not wanting a new club to be formed that would basically just take over the old one's place. Is this not what this 50/50 venture is? Bang goes the dangerous precedent. 2. I assuime there will be some sort of punishment for admin/ not paying creditors/ living outside means. Presumably a 15 point fine (a la Hamilton when their players went on strike). At the minimum this should be what happens. 3. Are existing creditors going to be paid in full? No doubt WLC will bend over backwards to cut the rent, which hopefully will allow any other rent payer in the area to go to the council with this precedent in their hands. 4. I'm not entirely sure what the 'hard work' undertaken by the fans was. Was it seeking out new sugar daddies to bankroll the club, whilst creating a stitch up with the local cooncil for reduced rent? What fuind raising/ campaigning was undertaken to create 'plan b' apart from the MocDougall/ Rankine saviours'? I'm not up to speed with the hard work undertaken - from what I can see, the fans seemed to expend more energy bitching at each other (a la MCL/ Penelope Pitstop etc) than getting together to save the club. 5. Have they been allowed to continue because someone paid off the SFL 'up front' (the bond). Are the SFL only interested in a team that can fuilfil its fixtures and sod the rest of society (council tax payers, creditors, all taxpayers re HMRC) that the club stitches up whilst doing it? As mentioned, I don't know if all these safeguards have been put in place/ questions satisfactorily answered above. To me, it seems like Livi got away with it again. Please explain why I'm wrong if this is not the case.

The other view could be that they want to be seen as not being too hurried before they stick the boot in - make it seem like it was due process

Only 207 on this thread. Come on guys, lets make an effort here. We could be watching the death of a long established name in Scottish football.

It would be quite incredible, and probably drag this thread into the 300+ pages division, but they may feel there isn't much left to lose. Maybe that's their plan - drag the P&B thread out to 300 pages plus. I wonder if my Queens v Livi programme will be worth a few bob soon. Must drag it out of the car - its probably worth more than its 'container' now!

See Massone's been banned from driving and fined £800clicky There goes one player's wages. I like the bit that states he was the majority shareholder of a limited company which had severe financial difficulties. My heart fair bleeds for the drunken criminal. Someone's going to have to drive him to the airport.

I'd be amazed if a decision is made on the day. This things dragged on longer than king dongs walloper after a double leg amputation. I suspect that we will be well into the season before anything happens. Eiother that or a deal is done very quickly which preserves the status quo with WLC, the Trust and McDougall taking over, the SFA remaining silent and Livi continuing in Div 1. Either way I think they'll get away with it.

None of these would be an asset surely. I assume that the stadium lease cannot be sold on by Livi (I would have thought that there would be a clause in the lease from the council stating that it would revert to them in the event of Livi going under), surely the league place is not saleable so no value can be ascribed to them. As for players - they will only be an asset if anybody is prepare to pay for them (which given the financial situation they probably won't as they know they could pick them up once breach of contract has happened). As far as I can see these assets have a market value of zero.

They have the bucket, which was used to hold the collection.

Can't help thinking you're right VikingTON. This saga has more use by dates than a shelf of eggs. End of May, middle of June, end of June, middle of July. I think something will be cobbled together and Livi will survive (and their creditors will get nothing). They've hung on so far.

Enemies of the club have been trying to prevent Livi from performing. Or as you and I know it Opposition teams have been winning against them, this preventing Champions League football in the immediate future as confidently predicted by the balloon. I'd like to know what he means by that - maybe that was Hegarty - trying to sabotage games? Not very good at it - they won a few with him in charge. Maybe Massone noticed his sabotage techniques and put a stop to them. That's why Heagrty was given the heave (for reasons that are still not disclosed)

I have to say that any sympathy I had for Livi has disappeared due to a number of factors: 1. 'Previous'. Living outwith your means almost since day one and still not seeing that this is wrong. Harping on about your 'success' when it was achieved on the back of unsustainable spending. 2. Disunity. Squabbling between the Trust/ other Livi supporters. You've made it easy for Massone to stay in power. I have never heard a single protest at any games I've been to as a fan. There has been as much squabbling between fans as against Massone. 3. Lack of a viable alternative. Tied into 2, you don't seem to be coalescing into an 'alternative', fund raising and building local community bridges to act as a Plan B. 4. Nobody standing up against Massone re unpaid staff, Hegarty situation (what's happening here by the way) and other key elements of lunacy. I don't mean e-mails on an internet board either. 5. The search for new saviours, rather than doing the hard yards yourselves. I recognise that as mentioned above, it is hard to dislodge chairmen (Harkness springs to mind). However to even not let him know your feelings publicly at matches etc seems to be meek. Massone has now become the club, and you've accepted it. Now you're on the verge of destruction because of it.

From what I have read it seems that Rankine realises that there's too much debt and is now taking big steps backwards. Personally, I would go along to the meeting and point out to Massone that I love the club, but that he is destroying the club and as such needs to go. Point out that if he really loves the club so much, he should clear its debts or at least those incurred by him (parking fines, Edinburgh townhouse etc). That way you make the point that the club is not Massone (something that he has skilfully managed to do by claiming he has put loads into the club and therefore implying that without Massone there is no Livi). Unfortunately because he has been stripping the club, there probably is no club now. So you need to build up finances for a Livi Mk3 (not in the 1st and probably not in the Football League given liquidation rather than administration). Is there enough support/ m,opmey gto do this - I'd be surprised. Whatever the solution is, it is not another big spender. I hate to think how you're paying for the generator, which I'm assuming must be on constantly so that the other businesses working out of Almondvale can continue operating.

I have a nasty feeling that the following may play out... 1. Massone realises the game's up and legs it. Someone takes over before admin. 2. They say - it was the previous guy's fault - pump enough in to pay off immediate issues (Scottish Power, police, players etc) and come to an 'arrangement' with WLC to pay the debt off over a long period of time. 3. SFA, faced with the alternative of messing up the league with such a short notice go 'we'll keep Livi in the 1st as disruption is too much. It was the previous guy's fault'. 4. Livi start the season in Div 1. Therefore nothing changes, people will still have unpaid debt, but the 'big boys' will have come to a cosy arrangement to keep it all going. Hope not. Livi have cheated their way in this division for long enough. If you can't pay your debts, you're not competing at the same level as those clubs who take tough decisions to remain within their budget. Even if the above happens, there needs to be a punishment of sorts to prevent others from taking this 'buy now think about paying later' attitude.

How many turned up at the protest?

£125k?? I thought that Massone said in his telly interview that Italian clubs would pay £1m for him. Dundee should find out who these clubs are and quickly sell him on at a huge profit. Even if the £125k goes into Livi, they still have to find another £165k or so to pay the council rent at the end of the month

What I find funny about that is that 'RDF ...will not be taking up their option of sponsoring Livingston next season' reconciles with 'we have a strong relationship with RDF and they are committed to supporting the club next season' in Massolini's eyes. So committed that they have decided not to sponsor the club.

Thanks for the link to the interview - very illuminating. I live down South so haven't seen it. I have completely changed my view about Massone - it is obvious that if it wasn't for him, the ungrateful Livi supporters wouldn't have a club. He's put in £2m of his own money - Livi fans have put in £150. He rightly wants to see Livi fans turning out to support his club. Luckily the contacts he has in Italy will mean that the £1m that Livi will get from selling Griffiths will help keep the club going despite the ungrateful Livi support's lack of support. OR Living in the real world.... His threat that the future of the club is in his hands means you're sh@gged. He's dropped a heavy hint/ blackmail threat that if he cant be bothered, he'll walk away. He won't walk away. He'll run away overnight, leaving Livi wondering where he is, what's happening etc. I wonder when Griffiths will realise that he is a slave and cannot leave unless Massolini wants him to.

It has passed A very good question stuart. Along with 'when are livi going into administration as threatened by Massone?' 'what is happening with the 16th June deadline for the option on the stadium?' 'how many players rem,ain unpaid from April and May?' 'how many non playing staff remain unpaid and how long have they not been paid for?' No doubt Massone will claim that 'this all is in hand - wait and see. Come and meet me - we can have good time talking.'

Surely if it was a 30th June deadline it hasn't passed? I thought it was sooner. I wonder how the club is progressing towards its mid June deadline of buying the ground from the council? No late night rants from the man last night then?

22 people on this thread! One thing Massone is good at doing is generating late night interest. I'm off to sleep now. Will tune in at the same time tomorrow to see 'confessions of a window cleaning fluid drinker' ciao bella

This is utter madness - I don't know how much more he has to do to drag down Scottish football's reputation. Can I suggest that someone tells him to stop coming home from the pub pissed and posting cannon fodder for the media? How much lower can this go? These look like the postings of a man under the severest pressure and very close to the edge in my opinion...

From reading the postings here and on Livi Lions, it would appear that Massone has undergone a damascene conversion from 'we're not in financial trouble its all made up by enemies of the club/ the papers' to 'buy 300 season tickets or we're f****d'. I find it amazing that Livi fans are urging each other to buy season tickets - talk about throwing good money after bad. Your only hope is (yet another) administration, booting out Massones croneys and starting from scratch - save your money for that. The way this club has been run is a disgrace to Scottish football, and the sooner it ends the better. Livi fans need to get together to build a plan to get them out of administration now. And the SFA should demote them to div 3 - otherwise I would advocate all clubs overspending, going into admin and restarting again ad infinitum. End game is now in sight methinks. Its like watching a car crash in slow motion...