[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

29 minutes ago, JayMFC said:

So my own personal views at the moment - and these are not the views of X, Y, Z, etc etc - are that I personally would argue against the possibility of the Society losing its majority shareholding in the club. There is a sense of urgency that's been attached to all of this that I don't think is particularly helpful - the club is simply in the same position it's been for years, where, if we have a poor season and no cup run and no player sales, a gap needs plugged. It is, of course, very important to sort that out, which is why I totally agree that a balance between fan-ownership & outside investment would be ideal, but I get the impression that a lot of folk think this has suddenly come to the fore at the AGM. The only reason it's being discussed so vocally now is because there are a couple of offers on the table because of the video, not because the club is in peril.

This is 100% where I am.

There's been a lot of discussion recently about poor judgement, to me launching that video (well meaning as it may have been) at a point at which we have no permanent CEO and a chairman who had indicated he's stepping down felt ill-judged and that's regardless of what I thought of the content or the messaging.

To me, sorting that stuff out first then approaching the subject of investment from a position of relative stability and allowing for some joined up thinking would have made far more sense than just launching that video in the way we did.

Instead, as you say, we find ourselves in a circumstance with an urgency attached that isn't helpful in the slightest. 

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

Something that crossed my mind kind of relates to @Busta Nut's point about the hierarchy at the club.

It's maybe one for @JayMFC or Dee so if you'll indulge me, I get it's also maybe not something that you'd want shared on a public forum given we've already seen The Sun run an "exclusive" that has basically just aggregated some of the detail from posts on here, Steelmen and FPC:

Anyway, I understand that Dickie and Feely are both on the board of the club and also the WS. Are they part of the discussions/negotiations re: investment on behalf of the WS and it's then fed back to the broader board or is it just being led by McMahon with details being shared on a need to know basis (I thought it interesting that Weir kind of put himself at arms length on Wednesday - he cut the figure of a man scunnered that he was still interim CEO because the board hadn't sorted their shit out but that's a different conversation)?

Either way, the way it was presented was that the WS were being "kept in the loop" for lack of a better phrase which to speak to Busta's point a few pages back seems a bit backward.

I realise I'm someone whose posts on here have shown that the more I've heard from McMahon over the past while the less convinced I am but the reason I'm curious is that having McMahon leading this kind of throws up a potential scenario where it's unclear whether the WS (as current majority owners) and any potential investor are on the same page or capable of working together before it goes to a vote.

Dunno, that doesn't seem to be a particularly healthy starting point should something get voted through the section of the fanbase/membership being discussed above.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

Just popping my head in to say Graeme McGarry’s post-AGM ‘Claret and Amber Alert’ mail shot via The Herald is excellent.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

1 hour ago, eliphas said:

I've been doing a bit of googling on the couple of bidders being discussed. Some sleuthing with a few big jumps because I was quiet at work today....

The Ozzie bid. The CEO mentioned would definitely would be saying the right things if they pitched up here. Here is an excerpt from his press release when announced at Brisbane...remove Queensland for Lanarkshire and that is what we preach:

We believe in developing and nurturing young & local talent, so that they can grow as people and as footballers.”  

“Our focus will be to reconnect the club with the football community throughout Queensland and establish a clear elite pathway from club and school football to the professional game,” Patafta said.  

Patafta, an ex-professional footballer played at Portuguese giants Benfica, Melbourne Victory, Newcastle Jets, the Australian U17 and U20’s national teams and was among four promising youngsters invited to train with the Socceroos leading up to the World Cup in Germany. 

“Our vision is to not only engage but to support local clubs by working together to grow participation, supporting more boys and girls to play the game.”  

Brisbane owners are The Bakrie Group. Indonesian based but own Brisbane through a company called PT. Pelita Jaya Cronus. Which looks like it's an investment arm for Bakrie essentially. They've got links across the world.

A golf team in LA was mentioned. This one definitely raised an eyebrow. As a golfer myself, you don't really hear about 'golf teams'. But, there was one recently just launched in LA, for a thing Tiger Woods is launching. Los Angeles Golf Club founded by Alexis Ohanian (founder of Reddit) and his wife Serena Williams. They were also founding investors in an LA womens fitba team.

The streaming magnate bid. Couldn't really dig up anything but was thinking...does Jim McMahon think Reddit is a streaming compay and actually that bid is the LA golf clubs one.

Anyway - entertained myself for a half an hour.

Maybe it was just the bits I could hear (honestly lads, get a fucking PA...even a small one) but it felt like the general conversation from board members leaned very heavily towards the US option. I don't know if that was a steer towards preference or if that one is just more advanced.

I think it was Weir who said something along the lines of the guy having made his money in streaming and it was a platform that we all use. Assuming we're not on Daniel Ek's radar but tbqh it could be anyone from someone who's actually credible to someone who's an absolute shitehawk as @AnderooMFC suggests.

There was also a comment that it "isn't Ryan Reynolds".

I mean, until it's clarified who the bid is from and we get some sort of prospectus/pitch deck it's kind of difficult to rule anything in/out.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

17 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

I assume that's at the discretion of the club rather than the player, which was alluded to last night during the discussions.

Aye, I was away to say that IIRC Kettlewell said that he didn't feel it was his place to discuss the specifics of the contract in terms of who it favoured but Weir chimed in to say something along the lines of they were/are "comfortable" with the deal.

Take from that what you want.

In fairness Kettlewell also put his hands up to the (good) question of <paraphrasing>"if we (correctly) didn't pursue Moult because of his injury record, how did we justify extending Obika whose injury record is equally as bad"</paraphrasing> and said that the Obika deal was on him and explained the logic and thinking behind it which was in line with what I think most of our understanding of his reasoning was ie: he did well playing in a specific role, St Mirren offered Mandron a better deal than we were willing to so we stuck with Obika and his burst hamstrings.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

A point that has kind of got lost in all of this (especially the hand-wringing about plugging shortfalls etc) is that through the fan-ownership model the club has actually been profitable.

Posted it before but these are our Profit/Losses since 16/17:

16/17: (£104,000)
17/18: £1,720,000
18/19: (£436,000)
19/20: £346,590
20/21: £3,575,615
21/22: (£1,082,000)
22/23: (£1,605,000)

Net profit: £2,415,205

Yes, that profit is largely generated by a quirk in which we reached two cup finals and sold 1 (ONE) generational talent but there's a certain mentality from folk who are talking like us posting £1.6m losses has been a regular occurrence or that that's an amount the amount that needs to be bridged when it's simply not the case.

Sure, that's the loss in the last financial year but that's easily explainable...we were cash rich with £4.2m in the bank so spent a chunk of it on capital investment projects.

Presumably if we hadn't had £4.2m sat in the bank we wouldn't have been spending £1.2m on a pitch. We spent that money because we had it (and the work needed done).

@thisGRAEME's post above really speaks to where it seems things have gone wrong post-Burrows and I'd ask the question as to how much the current board have actively sought investment or progressed any sort of strategy to grow the club?

We absolutely need fresh investment but as I said it at the time when McMahon's video went live that was not the work of serious people.

Having read @JayMFC's posts both here and on SO along with hearing both Sean and Derek last night it feels like there's a willingness to treat the WS with a degree of seriousness rather than have it stymied by a bowling club mentality.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Brightside said:

And the crowd went mild

Absolutely gone at that btw.

Possibly the first contract extension that's announced by way of an apology.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

24 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

That was my post, apologies; I kept adding stuff as it came to me. Was quite the tome in the end...

Finally bit the bullet and signed up here. 

Don't apologise. You wrote it up and there's far more detail than an idiot like me would post so I appreciate being able to crib your post.

Welcome btw.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

FWIW: there's been additional reporting on that SO post.

56 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

The Well Society have asked for the opportunity to provide a strategy/plan that means they'll be more able to continue funding the club and any shortfalls and create a business / fundraising plan of their own for the club, along the lines of the investors.

I also want to point out that Derek Weir stated that was his preferred option; that the Well Society is able to provide the funding required for the club to continue before difficult decisions (i.e. slashing playing budgets etc.) need to be made. Ultimately, the Society needs to be in a position in October to tell the accounts auditors that they have the funds available to support the club for 18 months; if not, that triggers a warning to the SPFL regarding our financial situation.

Also, to be absolutely clear, the Board are in no way making recommendations to shareholders or the Society to go or not go for the investment from either party. That will be decided when bids are submitted and shareholders and WS members have their vote. They are exploring all their options to ensure the financial safeguarding of the club, which is their job as Directors. As I said above, that also includes the WS continuing in its current role and increasing its input to the club.

Time, however, is of the essence. I would expect WS members to be polled/asked to vote in the coming days. Exactly how that will be put across is key and it'd be interesting to see what is sent out (I'm not a WS member, I have private shares in the club).

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

Lifting this from the Club AGM thread on SO:

8 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

There's a few details I think it's worth adding to this, particularly given some folks' concerns (on here and on P&B) re: asset stripping etc.

The two bids that are furthest forward are:

An American who "made his money in streaming" and now owns his own documentary company. His vision/strategy is to increase global exposure of the club and increase opportunities for further sponsorship, growing the fan-base and generating other revenue streams.

An Aus/USA/Middle East group who are primarily looking to transform the recruitment side of the club and use more advanced data analytics, machine learning etc. to bring in players across the age-groups of the club to create a culture, style of playing etc. and sell them on for profit.

Both parties have spoken with both the Club and Well Society Boards and at least one did it in person from what I picked up, although both may well have.

• Neither of the bids are philanthropic; they will be looking to make a return on their investment via their own business plans and strategy
   
• The investment will be made by buying shares, not in loans (like Hutchinson) or other guarantees that can be secured against the club; however these might be a special category of share that allows them to take some % of profits etc. (I missed the name of these)
   
• The share purchases will not be instant, nor will the investment be "transformational" straight away; one bid is proposing the WS go down to "around 50%" and another is wanting a controlling stake, but the % was not mentioned
   
• One of the groups would be looking to appoint their own CEO; "someone who played for Benfica and is running an Australian club" was mentioned (based on a quick Google, I believe that's this chap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaz_Patafta)

• Transfer fees recouped for players will remain within the club (I'm not sure how that will work with the second investor I mentioned; perhaps through their specific type of shares they'll be able to share profit rather than taking away directly from transfer fees)
   
• One of the reasons for the urgency/speed around this is that one of the parties wants to be involved in planning for next season; both are looking for exclusive negotiating positions
   
• There is still a long way to go with negotiations, analysis of club finances by parties, addition of potential clauses etc. still need to take place which will then result in a final offer
   
• The interested parties might come back based on the results of any vote of the WS membership and accept that a 51/49 split with WS retaining ownership could work for them and that would be part of their heads of terms/initial agreement with the club
   
• There is potential to negotiate with investors clauses etc. in the final proposal(s) that would allow the Well Society first refusal on any investor's shareholding, in the event they wish to sell their stake in the club so the club would return to being fan owned, should the Society have the necessary funds to purchase the shareholding
   
• Equally, a "No" from the WS re: the red line on majority fan ownership could will be enough for the two current front runners to back out

In total there were 4/5 serious groups looking to invest in the club; I asked how those were progressing and the simple answer was "not as quickly as these two". At least on of the other parties are investing in other areas of sport (a golf team in LA was mentioned) and the board are trying to get to things developed without having to use a corporate finance consultant as far as possible. Another is an American who Derek Weir had spoken with, who was interested in developing an academy system in the US for developing players but not much more was said on that one. 

The Chairman did state last night that if this is something which does progress forward, he would absolutely propose bringing in experts in corporate finance to ensure nothing is missed in the minutiae that could come back to bite us.

Also, we have interviewed 3 or 4 candidates for CEO by both Club and WS Boards. The issue we have is that with potential investment and at least one group looking to appoint their own, it's a difficult spot to be in. Normally this kind of appointment and negotiations for investment would, ideally, be years apart. So we run the risk of appointing a CEO who brings their own structures and ideas, to then potentially have them removed by any investor.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

7 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

No update in the search for a CEO then?

I could be wrong but beyond Weir effectively saying he’s out of there in 5 weeks they didn’t actually mention it until someone asked.

They’ve apparently interviewed and the WS have had input or spoken to folk but the whole “investment” thing has meant they find themselves between two stools in that anyone putting money in might have their own ideas.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

20 minutes ago, Swello said:

I couldn't make the AGM tonight because of work - so I missed the Kettlewell chat. The thing is - is there a single one of us at the end of last season that wouldn't have thought an extra year was a perfectly sensible/well earned contract "reward" for keeping us up? It's just the fact that no-one thought to mention the fact that the most important person at the club was here for an extra year...

As @dezz says - throughout pages of chat, we've all been under the impression that there is a decision to make at the end of the season (which again seemed a reasonable thing) - but that is obviously no longer the case and we're going into next season in the same boat (unless we go down).

100% this.

Mention it here and absolutely no one bats an eyelid...

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

3 hours ago, MurrayWell said:

Chat fae the AGM is that Kettlewell's contract is until May 2025, not May 2024... our outstanding communications strike again. 

EDIT: I'm not at AGM, just had a message from someone who is. 

Double checked and when he was confirmed as manager the website said it was until 2024. We seem to love not announcing certain contract extensions these days.

Assume it was a clause if he kept us up but just tell folk when it happens

I was there. Some laugh.

There were people taking notes so I imagine there will be a full report of what went down on other sites.

McMahon seemed genuinely baffled as to why people thought Kettlewell's contract was up in the summer but he just wanted to clarify because he'd heard that there had been discussion on "social media".

Weir confirmed later on that it was an automatic trigger and (I think) he said he didn't realise it hadn't been communicated until the other day.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

1 minute ago, Neil86 said:

To counter what I had said previously, I seen in the comments of the tweet there is a Sheffield Utd fan saying they wouldn't be surprised to see him get some game time with them now that they are down to one fit LB, the rest are injured.

he's possibly seen an opportunity to sit on a premier league bench with the chance of getting x amount in appearance fee if he plays for 5 minutes, if so, fair fucks to him.

Surely he's not eligible to play for them with the recall happening outside the window.

Anyway, 23/24 has been a wild ride.

On 04/06/2023 at 23:41, capt_oats said:

Goalkeepers:

1. Liam Kelly (27) - 2024
13. Aston Oxborough (25) - 2024

Defenders:

2. Stephen O'Donnell (31) - 2024
3. Georgie Gent (19) - 2024 - season loan from Blackburn Rovers
5. Bevis Mugabi (28) - 2024
15. Dan Casey (25) - 2025
16. Paul McGinn (32) - 2024
20. Shane Blaney (24) - 2025
21. Adam Devine (20) - 2024 - season loan from Rangers
22. Adam Montgomery (21) - 2023 - season loan from Celtic
29. Callan Elliot (24) - 2024
66. Calum Butcher (32) - 2024

Midfielders:

6. Barry Maguire (25) - 2024
7. Blair Spittal (27) - 2024
8. Callum Slattery (24) - 2024
11. Andy Halliday (32) - 2024 + 1 year
12. Harry Paton (25) - 2025
17. Davor Zdravkovski (25) - 2025
38. Lennon Miller (16) - 2026
39. Luca Ross (16) - 2025

Forwards:

9. Jon Obika (32) - 2024 + 1 year option
14. Thelonius Bair (23) - 2025
18. Oli Shaw (25) - 2024 - season loan from Barnsley
19. Sam Nicholson (29) - 2024
28. Jack Vale (22) - 2024 - season loan from Blackburn Rovers

In

• 19/06/23 - Jon Obika (from Morecambe - free transfer)
• 04/07/23 - Conor Wilkinson (from Walsall - free transfer)
• 17/07/23 - Pape Souaré (from Morecambe - free transfer)
• 21/07/23 - Davor Zdravkovski (from AEL Limassol - free transfer)
• 01/08/23 - Thelonius Bair (from St Johnstone - free transfer)
• 22/01/24 - Callan Elliot (unattached - previously Wellington Phoenix - free transfer)
• 23/01/24 - Sam Nicholson (from Colorado Rapids - free transfer)

In (Loan)

• 03/08/23 - Mika Biereth (from Arsenal - season)
• 24/08/23 - Brodie Spencer (from Huddersfield Town - season)
• 31/08/23 - Oli Shaw (from Barnsley - season)
• 01/09/23 - Georgie Gent (from Blackburn Rovers - season)
• 15/01/24 - Adam Montgomery (from Celtic - season)
• 19/01/24 - Andy Haliday (from Hearts - season + 1 year permanent)
• 31/01/24 - Jack Vale (from Blackburn Rovers - season)
• 01/02/24 - Adam Devine (from Rangers - season)
• 01/02/24 - Jili Buyabu (from Sheffield United - season)
• 08/02/24 - Oli Shaw (from Barnsley - season)

Out (Loan)

• 14/07/23 - Robbie Mahon (to Edinburgh City - season)
• 15/07/23 - Sam Campbell (to Annan Athletic - to January '24)
• 24/07/23 - Ross Tierney (to Walsall - season)
• 04/08/23 - Adam MacDonald (to Cowdenbeath - season)
• 18/08/23 - Barry Maguire (to Kidderminster Harriers - to January 24)
• 25/08/23 - Robbie Garcia (to Cowdenbeath - to January 24)
• 26/08/23 - Ricki Lamie (to Dundee - season)
• 29/09/23 - Mark Ferrie (to Stenhousemuir - to January 24)
• 29/09/23 - Ewan Wilson (to Stirling Albion - season)
• 30/09/23 - Nathan McGinley (to Partick Thistle - to January 24)
• 22/12/23 - Matty Connelly (to East Kilbride - season)
• 03/01/24 - Brodie Spencer (to Huddersfield Town - loan recall option exercised)
• 11/01/24 - Arran Bone (to Gala Fairydean Rovers - season)
• 18/01/24 - Mika Biereth (to Arsenal - loan recall option exercised - loaned to Sturm Graz)
• 24/01/24 - Oli Shaw (to Barnsley - loan cancelled)
• 21/02/24 - Jili Buyabu (to Sheffield United - loan cancelled)

Out

• 20/06/23 - Kevin Van Veen (to FC Groningen - undisclosed )
• 22/06/23 - Dean Cornelius (to Harrogate Town - undisclosed)
• 24/07/23 - Riku Danzaki (to Western United - free)
• 25/07/23 - Max Johnston (to Sturm Graz - £300k - development compensation)
• 26/07/23 - Connor Shields (to Chennaiyin FC - free)
• 09/08/23 - Ali Gould (to Watford u21)
• 16/09/23 - Joe Efford (to PAS Giannina - free)
• 01/01/24 - Pape Souaré (contract expired)
• 03/01/24 - Conor Wilkinson (to Colchester United - undisclosed)
• 04/01/24 - Sam Campbell (contract expired)
• 11/01/24 - Robbie Mahon (to Dundalk - free)
• 23/01/24 - Nathan McGinley (released - mutual consent)

Players confirmed departing club at end of contract:

• Jake Carroll
• Logan Dunachie (signed for Clyde)
• Daniel Hunter (signed for Broomhill)
• Kian Spiers (signed for Caledonian Braves)
• Jack Aitchison (signed for Exeter City)
• David Devine (signed for Alloa)
• Corey O'Donnell (signed for Broomhill)
• Max Johnston (signed for Sturm Graz)
• Sean Goss (signed for Asteras Tripoli)
• Mikael Mandron (signed for St Mirren)

Loans expired:

• Stuart McKinstry (signed for Queens Park)
• James Furlong (sold to Hull City)
• Oli Crankshaw (signed for Altrincham)
• Jon Obika (signed for Motherwell)

Contracted players released:

• Josh Morris
• Riku Danzaki (signed for Western United)
• Joe Efford (signed for PAS Giannina)
• Nathan McGinley

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

 

[Scottish Football's Top Cult Heroes]

5 hours ago, Al B said:

Sasa Curcic.

Bit of a legendary arrival already given his antics down in the English Premiership, arrived at Motherwell and his contract talks involved telling the club he wanted to be paid in beautiful women instead of money. Left about 6 weeks later. I'll let you draw your own conclusions there.

Curcic was one of the first ones I thought of as well.

Shivute as well.

and this guy...

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

18 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Yeah...the investment thing can understandably take time, so while I expect an update, you wouldn't be massively surprised if details are scant if we're mainly processing people who reacted to the January appeal.

The CEO a different matter though... you could even argue that if they don't basically have a candidate lined up by now it's time to give someone else a shot at getting it done.

Yeah, I mean I don’t expect to pitch up tomorrow and there be a big bag of money on the table but it’s been brought up at previous AGMs and IIRC McMahon conceded that it was something they’d let slip.

Given it’s something that they’ve put on the agenda so it’s not unreasonable to ask how it’s developed.

Bearing in mind McMahon felt he had to point out that the video wasn’t the only part of the project I’m curious to hear how they’ve got on with whatever else they were working on…

Agree completely re: the CEO, ideally you’d be expecting it to be announced they have somehow set to go.

If not then…fucking hell lads.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

33 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

To say I'm looking forward to the AGM would be an exaggeration but I'm certainly very curious to hear the reports from those there.

Looking forward is a stretch but I'm definitely interested to see what's going to be covered as I get the impression that with McMahon having stated his intention to step down and Weir being clear that he had no intention of being interim this long in the first place there's probably far less tolerance towards them for the sort of flannelling and kicking the can down the road that we've heard before.

They bought themselves a bit of time with those updates in January but given the sort of timelines they've set themselves there really has to be some sort of concrete progress now (IMO).

[Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread]

Just now, andrewh said:

Has Taylor not got back to you on the back of that video yet? Still haven’t decided if that was cringe or clever lol

It definitely wasn't clever. So...

It's our AGM tomorrow so I'm looking forward to finding out how successful it's been (my expectations are not high).

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

30 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Yeah "has something" is a good way of putting it, I think I'd convinced myself beforehand that he was just a random Championship kid we hadn't actually scouted or anything. 

Maybe too early to say but most of the 20/21 year olds we've loaned in this season have looked decent for the most part when they've played- Biereth, Spencer,Gent, hopefully Vale and Devine. If you're being charitable you can maybe say that reflects well on Kettlewell as a coach that clubs are trusting us with them. If you're being more unkind maybe we're just so bad nowadays that Blackburn and Huddersfield u20s slot straight into our first team.

In fairness, I'm pretty sure Spencer has started almost every game for Huddersfield since he was recalled and by all accounts he's legitimately doing well.

Ultimately that's the difference - if we're picking up the players at that level who their clubs are investing in to make a step up rather than the makeweights then chances are we're getting someone in who can do us a decent turn.

35 minutes ago, eliphas said:

I reckon the fact we've missed out on a load of signings and the fact we've just partnered with a company who gives insight into fitba financials and salaries is no coincidence.

Genuinely laughed reading that because I felt daft at having not joined those (quite obvious) dots...Yes!

I'm curious to see precisely what's on the agenda at the AGM on Wednesday with all this sort of stuff floating around in the background.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

The reason we sent him back but we've panicked into allowing Barnsley to trick their and our FA into thinking we agreed it just before the deadline...  About a week after it. 

In fairness, I don't disagree that we've been panicked into bringing him back but in terms of timeline it depends on how long it took the English FA to process Barnsley's appeal.

The English FA are generally quite strict with that sort of thing so I'd be surprised if Barnsley actually Jedi mind-tricked them into Shaw coming back.

Bear in mind they basically told Blackburn to f**k off after there was an "administrative error" in their submission for Duncan McGuire's loan: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/feb/06/mcguire-transfer-collapsed-after-blackburn-pressed-wrong-button-on-website

We announce Shaw was back on 8th February (2 days after that Blackburn appeal) so I guess there's a chance that we've legitimately agreed the deal prior to the close of deadline then sorted out the paperwork - similar to Butcher last season who was announced on 4th February - with the window having closed on 31st January.

Anyway, vaguely related to our Oli Shaw mercy dash I just noticed this on a thread on FPC (it's been a while). It's possible it got lost in all the noise around chucking a 3-0 lead but it seems we had a late bid for Aidan Keena binned on deadline day.

Either way it seems as if Shaw coming back was the most last resort thing going.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

10 hours ago, Swello said:

I don't know if there is such a thing as specialist defensive coaching in Scottish fitba - but I think we need to invent it if not as we can't continue the way things are and the current coaching team simply aren't fixing anything.

Thinking about this it reminded me of Kettlewell's comment on a podcast (maybe Open Goal?) back when he got the job along the lines of he felt that we were understaffed.

It kind of makes me wonder if this is still an issue - I know we promoted Ricky Foster to replace Archibald's short stint in the LDC role and I know we've had Clarkson in the dug out most games but given his actual job is Head of Academy you wonder if we're either short or asking people to double up.

Either way, we definitely feel lighter in the coaching department than we were when either Robinson or Alexander were at the club.

In fact @Handsome_Devil's comment about the stat Alexander threw out about not conceding from set pieces feels especially relevant in that respect.

[What happened to top striker partnerships?]

25 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Tommy Coyne and Keith Wright getting the correct amount of credit in this thread. Cobra and the Mongoose. Slightly before my time but clear that Coyne was quality when he went on to be an absolute cult hero at Motherwell as well. Not often you can get that sort of status at one club nevermind two.

Not even a cult hero. Just a straight up hero for 'well fans of a certain vintage ie: many of the posters on our thread.

61 goals in 156 games. Part of of a team that finished league runners up and finished the top scorer in the league that season. Played at a World Cup while on our books.

Some boi.

[Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

If we are constantly losing the same types of goals and it goes across every defender we've got, it probably points to a deeper problem. While I don't think the situations are identical, Kettlewell solved the same situation last year where Hammell had seemed unable to stop us losing bad goals over a period of months. 

I don't know if there is such a thing as specialist defensive coaching in Scottish fitba - but I think we need to invent it if not as we can't continue the way things are and the current coaching team simply aren't fixing anything.

I found myself unreasonably annoyed at Kettlewell's post-match yesterday largely because it was such a callback to Hammell last season.

It's good that SK is acknowledging that we're losing soft/bad/cheap goals and it's probably fair to say that players need to take individual responsibility. However, last season Kettlewell fixed the issue by adding a new player to the group (Hammell signed Butcher to play in midfield) and moving away from the back 4 to a back 3 - which worked very well.

In this case we didn't sign another centre back (fair enough we have something like 6 anyway), we've not changed the shape and Kettlewell shows no appetite to swap out an underperforming goalkeeper.

If we're not actually going to make any changes like that we're back to asking the same players, in the same shape to...just defend better? That brings us back round to a question about defensive coaching.

You can get away with blaming individual mistakes every now and again but as you say, if we're losing the same types of goals on a regular basis then it's absolutely pointing to a deeper problem.

1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

I don't quite dislike Paton as much as others but I am starting to get annoyed with the hard on that Kettlewell seems to have for him.

58 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'm often critical of Paton, I think he's reasonable but the fact SK insists on him being a starting 6/8/10 option at all times is mental. That's a word salad of a sentence but you know what I mean, Paton is blatantly not good enough to be an on the pitch pick at all times in three different roles...it just doesn't compute.

Besides the unpleasantness this is sort of the problem I have with Paton as well along with the fact that I don't actually think he's particularly suited to the role that he's currently being asked to play but he's a fixture there anyway.

[What happened to top striker partnerships?]

34 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

We AreNot amused.

We need someone (with better technical skills than me) to post a clip of that goal against Rangers (in their lilac strip) where Coyne plays a first time ball across goal for him to knock in.

I clipped a GIF of it but it's so low res it's not really worth posting.

The highlights of the game are here though and the wee man scores both.