capt_oats

Aye those are the only games we've lost by more than 2. In all comps we've lost 7 by 1 goal, 6 by 2 and 3 by 2+ Tbh the games that have absolutely fucked us have been the 2 losses to County, losing to Dundee at Dens and not holding on to that point last week.

I wasn't slagging him, broadly speaking I'm a fan of the job Robinson did with us but both things are true; he gave a number of Academy players opportunities in the first team (it was Stephen Craigan who did the developing in the u20s) and he also signed a lot of dross, there was a remarkable amount of wastage on Robinson's watch. Whether or not this was Robinson's approach or it was on direction from the club IDK but it felt like if he had say £3k p/w of a budget he'd prefer to sign 4 players on lower wages with the view he could develop 2 into better players and just cut the other 2 loose than just sign 2 good first team players on higher wages (the upshot being he'd point out we couldn't compete with those wages). He did a long listen podcast with the club in November 19 it's worth a listen to see if any of it sounds familiar when it comes to squad/development stuff.

Aye, that's what I thought. The whole thing felt 100% like "Hey! Look! A squirrel" Nelms is talking about the facility the first team train in, that's not something that's related to the stadium development is it? The St John's thing is a performance school the same as Braidhurst down here right?

I'm glad you said that as I just watched all 5 minutes 11 seconds and genuinely thought I'd missed something.

It's very standard Robinson patter tbf. He ended up getting a bunch of our Young Motherwell into the side, made us a lot of money and deserves a ton of credit for that (despite the folk who are still raging he got the job and think he should have been playing Turnbull a year before he actually did). He obviously did well with Campbell, Turnbull and Scott. There's an argument that Cadden regressed a bit under him while Barry Maguire's improved more under Alexander than he ever did playing for Robinson. What was interesting about Robinson's approach to squad building with us was that he'd regularly talk up wanting to have a small squad but then sign a tonne of dross in the hope that some of them came good but would invariably have a moan about budget. We'd often have a first team of 26, 27 or 28 players, a bunch of whom would be cut loose after 6 months (hello Alex Fisher and Casper Sloth) or it'd be clear would be gone by the end of the season having barely kicked a baw. Basically, what Robinson said and what he did were two different things. Which was weird to watch play out. I posted this before on our thread but in the 3.5 years he was at the club he signed 55 different players. Feel free to take a look and decide for yourselves how many were hits/misses/meh.

Fucking booooooooooo!

The only candidate for us is Liam Kelly. We've actually got a bunch of decent players who have had good games sporadically (in Kevin Van Veen's case almost exclusively against Aberdeen) but given Alexander's taken a turn towards wildly over managing the squad, players who were playing well and starting every game up to the winter break have found themselves bounced out the team to the detriment of their own form and the team as a whole. Which is really, really annoying. Kelly's been good and has played literally every game. So...Liam Kelly, our player of the season.

I mean, I defer to both @Busta Nut and @Desp's knowledge. Not directly related to the Slattery conversation but looking broadly over the season there have been instances where it looks like the manager has sidelined players. Aside from Lawless getting emptied, most obvious is Carroll after his sending off against Dundee, he'd started 4 of the 5 Betfred games and all 4 of the league games up to the point he was sent off. He didn't start another game until mid-December against Celtic (14 games). Grimshaw hasn't started a game since the 3-0 loss at Dens where he was subbed at HT. He'd started 11 of the 14 games he'd been available for up to that point. Slattery's last start was the 2-0 loss at Tannadice a month ago, he was subbed off after 63 mins he'd started the 3 of the 4 games prior (Hearts, St Mirren and Celtic. He came off the bench in the cup game against Aberdeen) - we've played 7 games since and he's come off the bench in two of those games (County and Dundee) and been an unused sub in 5.

100%. This is, for me, where he has massively fucked it. I said it the other week (slightly facetiously I admit) but Woolery has been managed in a similar way but there's nowhere as much of a "thing" about him as there has been for Slattery. Woolery started 22 of the 25 games in all competitions up to the winter break but has only started 6 of the 14 games since (but he's appeared in 11 of the 14 and been an unused sub in 3). So he's gone from starting 88% of games to 42% (but has been available for all of them).

When I did those comparisons of starting XIs the other day I was actually a bit surprised at the number of appearances Slattery had made given the narrative about him. Since the County game he's made 8 appearances of 14 games but only 4 starts (of which we've drown 1 - St Mirren 1-1 (a) and lost 3 - Hearts 2-0 (a), Celtic 0-4 (h), United 2-0 (a)). It's not like he's been fully Polworth'd or Lawleff'd. He's been in the match squad for all 14 games. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd be starting him but it's a stretch to say he's been frozen out (IMO). As for the whole thing about the Lamie and O'Hara PCAs - neither of them were first team regulars (for differing reasons) while Mugabi, McGinley and Maguire all extended their deals and surprise, surprise all 3 have been regular starters. As I said the other day I've no doubt that Alexander is probably...difficult and that there will be a bunch of players who will be unhappy but there's not been a line that everything is sunshine and rainbows in the camp because Bevis signed a 2 year deal but with the same logic folk are falling over themselves on Twitter dot com to get raging about O'Hara signing a PCA.

Guid oanest laddies trying to play fitba' the right way, ken?

Aye, Robinson's already brought O'Connor with him as his assistant as well. I'd like to think that given the set up at Fir Park with Hammell, Clarkson etc and Burrows as CEO there's a mid-long term pathway for Lasley if he wants it and that would have f**k all to do with Alexander either way. Going way back to when we announced Daws it was implied that the idea was to create culture that meant it would handle staff changes.

Just had a check to see what Simo's up to. Finished 2nd in the Norwegian Veikussliga last year so he seems to be doing alright after getting Tromsø relegated.

Mark O'Hara is absolutely nothing like Connor Ronan tbf. Tbh, he's not really a Gogic either. He's not a destroyer or anything like that. He's a box to box midfielder who'll get about the pitch nominally a #8. He's not creative enough to play as a #10, Robinson tried him as a holding midfielder last season which didn't really work as he doesn't really have the discipline, arguably his best games last season came when he played centre half in a back 3. He's been with us since 2019 and has never really established himself one way or another. He's had good games here and there but never on a consistent basis. For all there's snark in @RandomGuy.'s post about him, he's also right...he's an extremely Stephen Robinson player. We paid a nominal fee for him and pushed the boat out a bit to get him on a permanent ahead of you guys because Robinson saw value in him so it's absolutely no surprise he's went back in for him. IMO the best summary came over on our thread from @Casagolda last night. It's pretty much spot on.

Strong agree with all that. And to back up @YassinMoutaouakil's point about tying himself in knots... Here are the starting line-ups in the run up to the winter break (after the Rangers 1-6) vs after: 06/11 - (W) Aberdeen (0-2) - Kelly, Mugabi, Ojala, Johansen, McGinley; O'Hara, Goss, Maguire; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt 20/11 - (W) Hearts (2-0) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Lamie, McGinley; Slattery, Maguire, Goss; Woolery, Shields, Watt 27/11 - (L) Dundee (3-0) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Lamie, McGinley; Slattery, Maguire, Grimshaw; Woolery, Shields, Watt 30/11 - (W) Dundee United (1-0) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Lamie, McGinley; Slattery, Maguire () Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt 04/12 - (X) Hibs (1-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Lamie, McGinley; Slattery, Cornelius, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt 12/12 - (L) Celtic (1-0) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Carroll, McGinley; Slattery, Maguire, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt 18/12 - (W) St Johnstone (2-0) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Johansen, McGinley; Cornelius, Donnelly, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt 26/12 - (W) Livi (2-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Johansen, McGinley; Donnelly, Maguire, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Shields -------------------------------Winter Break------------------------------ 18/01 - (L) Ross County (3-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Johansen, McGinley; Donnelly, Maguire, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Roberts 26/01 - (X) Hibs (0-0) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Johansen, Carroll, McGinley; Donnelly (), Maguire, Goss; Roberts, Van Veen, Shields 29/01 - (L) Hearts (2-0) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Johansen, Carroll, McGinley; Shaw, Maguire, Slattery; Roberts, Van Veen, Tierney 01/02 - (X) St Mirren (1-1) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Carroll; O'Donnell, Donnelly, Shaw, McGinley; Slattery, Goss; Van Veen (3421) 06/02 - (L) Celtic (0-4) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, McGinley; O'Donnell, Donnelly, Cornelius, Carroll; Slattery, Goss; Van Veen (3421) 09/02 - (L) Dundee United (2-0) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Ojala, McGinley; Slattery, Donnelly, Goss; Efford, Roberts, Woolery 19/02 - (X) Aberdeen (1-1) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Ojala, Carroll; O'Hara, Donnelly, Goss; Efford, Van Veen, Shields 27/02 - (X) Rangers (2-2) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Lamie, Carroll; Donnelly, Cornelius; Tierney, O'Hara, Woolery; Efford (4231) 02/03 - (L) Ross County (0-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Johansen, Lamie, Carroll; O'Hara, Donnelly, Goss; Shields, Van Veen, Woolery 05/03 - (X) Dundee (1-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Johansen, Ojala, Lamie; O'Hara, Donnelly, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Efford 19/03 - (L) St Johnstone (2-1) - Kelly; Ojala, Lamie, Johansen; O'Donnell, Cornelius, Donnelly, Carroll; Efford, Van Veen, Shields (343/523) Genuinely mental - we had a relatively settled starting XI give or take, picking up results and had one issue we needed to address (Watt leaving). So for...reasons we've ripped everything up, we've tried 4 different shapes where before we pretty much stuck with 433. In the league we've started the same midfield b2b twice (Donnelly, Maguire, Goss in the County and Hibs games / O'Hara, Donnelly, Goss in the County and Dundee games) I don't think we've played the same front 3 b2b.

The other thing is a purely numbers issue and that's no shade on O'Hara. If we want to address the midfield in the summer then something had to give as we already have Maguire (2024), Slattery (2024), Cornelius (2023), Tierney (2025) and Goss (2023) contracted for next season. Re-sign O'Hara and we're pretty much committing to running with largely the same midfield as we have at the moment. The other midfielders OOC are Donnelly and nominally Grimshaw with Shaw returning back to Celtic.

Aye. That was my thought last night as well. If you break down who's actually left: Watt - by all accounts on daft money at United and from the sound of things was just generally acting the c**t. Lamie - he wasn't exactly loved by the Motherwell support and until Alexander turned up wasn't even playing well. He's also never really been a first name on the team sheet and from what was reported at the AGM Dundee are willing to pay him far more than we were. His best pal has also fucked off to United. O'Hara - literally hasn't been available for over half of Alexander's games and was out a fair bit under Robinson as well. We made a push to get him in, paid a nominal fee - it'd be a surprise if we were willing to match whatever wage he's on just now. Like, don't get me wrong I'm sure Alexander is...difficult and there are probably a bunch of players unhappy but it's also pretty easy for folk to just see what they want to see here. As you say there have been an equal number of players re-signed.

Loved a draw anaw.

And to think people questioned why we gave him that extension.

Fwiw, the remaining Robinson signings at the club are: OOC - Grimshaw, Donnelly Contracted - Fox, O'Donnell, Carroll, Mugabi, McGinley

I completely forgot about this btw.

There was an article went up on the official site the other week where he said that he hadn't been offered anything "as such". Then again that's him missed 33 of Alexander's 60 games in charge now so...it's not a massive surprise?

This is broadly it for me. I imagine that Robinson's valuation of O'Hara is significantly higher than ours especially given the amount of football he's missed (not that that's his fault). IIRC St Mirren were interested in him when we signed him on a permanent, we also paid a nominal fee for him so if Robinson was willing to push the boat out a bit for him then it's absolutely zero surprise to see him in for him again if he's getting the band back together.

Carroll's got a year to go on his contract.

Stephen Robinson chucking money at Mark O'Hara to sign is it? I for one am shocked.