thelegendthatis
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Posts posted by thelegendthatis
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Aye, hindsight's a wonderful thing though eh?
Yes it is. Available on the first 50 pages of this thread.
The only people surprised by how Rangers getting to where it is today are the stupidly optimistic Rangers fans.
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The history thing tbf seems to bother celtic fans a lot more than us, spending thousands on newspaper adverts is only the tip of the iceberg.
Rangers fans should have acted quicker, can't deny it and a lot of support picked the wrong fights to fight but the history thing gets given too much importance imo.
"should have acted quicker" ???
But they haven't acted even yet.
They are still shouting and bawling but doing nothing of any consequence. Other than getting up the noses of normal people for their inability to understand the world has moved on from their Champions League days. .
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Correct.
However
1 A good businessman always does risk assessment and has contingency plans.
2. His original plan was sabotaged by an ungrateful bears support and the uppity king trying to muscle in on the cheap.
He could be hacked off and decided to resort to a fallback plan ...
Nobody is really stating this was his one and only gameplan all along ... but he is certainly playing a blinder and has all the moves covered.
I do get where you are coming from though ... hope springs eternal.
I think doing a risk assessment on Rangers as it stands and all that has happened since its formation is one hell of a job. That is why MA saw it so important to get Llambias and Leach in the door. They will still be digging their way through all the crap finding out what is there and especially what could jump up and bite them on the bum. Would guess they will have a squad working on the detail down in Sports Direct HO or wherever.
Perhaps?? Take Ashley on at your peril. Must be a few skeletons to unearth at castle Ibrox.
WhistleblowerAshley turned whistleblower on industry rivals in 2000, handing the Office of Fair Trading evidence of business meetings held by sports retailers to fix the price of football shirts. Ashley attended a meeting at the Cheshire home of David Hughes, the chairman of now bankrupt rival Allsports. At the meeting Dave Whelan, the founder of JJB Sports, reportedly told Ashley: "There's a club in the north son, and you're not part of it."
Assuming Ashley provides money and gets security over any assets against that loan, you can be totally sure that as long as a single pound remains outstanding on the loan, the assets will remain in Ashley's hands.
If Ashley is handing over money he won't be keen on a company that burns money having it. The culls must happen soon, with staff going out the door to reduce running costs. That must include players as they will be at the top of the payroll spreadsheet!
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Summary;
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reaction of Rangers fans' groups
Union of Fans: "Derek Llambias and Barry Leach have been appointed by Mr Ashley to ensure he grabs the remaining assets of the club. Mr Ashley and his board stooges have shown a blatant disregard for the club and the fans."
Rangers First: "Rangers First is extremely concerned about the fact that one party has been granted advance notice of security over assets including our stadium and Auchenhowie at a time when the company which owns our club has assured shareholders it is currently considering various proposals."
Rangers Supporters Trust: "Quite frankly this latest move by the board is legalised theft and we will not stand by and watch it happen. If necessary we will instigate legal action against the directors both collectively and individually. We have also contacted several MPs and will be seeking political and government support to stop this attempted asset grab."
What a bunch of clowns. What is legalised theft?
I note the Rangers Supporters Trust has contacted MPs. Was Rangers FC a responsibility devolved to the Scottish Government? No doubt won't stop Ian Davidson getting his nib in, with TV opportunities to show what a man of the people he is, especially as he scrambles to try to hang on to his seat come the election.
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Maybe the Queen will save them since all the fans seem to love her
I think they missed their chance with Prince Andrew. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30759303
£13million would have done the business.
Andrew, being such a party animal and general up himself sort of person, would have fitted in well with some of the Rangers fans, and Sarah would have been a hit with those of the fans with higher IQs.
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he left us in 2005, MA didn't buy his majority shareholding in the Mags until. 2007, pretty sure that Boumsong had already left for Juve by then. Still can't believe they paid £8m for him though.
The £8 million transfer fee raised eyebrows,[3] as the player, being out of contract, had joined Rangers for free just months before, at which point Newcastle showed no interest in signing him. This transfer is one of those about which the Stevens inquiry report in June 2007 expressed concerns:
"There remains inconsistencies in evidence provided by Graeme Souness – a former manager of the club – and Freddy Shepherd – apparently acting in an undefined role but not as a club official – as to their respective roles in transfer negotiations."
"The inquiry is still awaiting clarification from agent Willie McKay"
McKay was one of the agents investigated by the Quest team, led by Lord Stevens, which looked into allegations of "bungs" and fraud in transfers
That Willie Mackay is a good friend of Souness, ally to Walter Smith when manager at Everton and Rangers, and confidant of Gravy Boat Ally (remember in the dying stages of Rangers 1, Ally was wanting to buy 35 year old Cousin. Cousin's agent? Correct!) Also worked closely with Harry (I can't count beyond 2) Redknapp.
Remind me again, when did Souness get his EBT at Rangers setup? It was long after he departed Ibrox.
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It's not even as if he cannot get most of the money back .... it's secured against assets. King can deal or no deal ... Ashley gives not a fig. The fact that he hardly utters a word to the press means noone but those he trusts knows exactly what he is up to or why.
Ashley is some class act. There he is now sitting with all the keys to Ibrox and Murray Park as well as the merchandise. At the same time he has lifted the drawbridge to any attempted infiltrators, only letting it down when he decides.
Best of all he has done it in a steady professional way without feeding the media as is the usual Rangers way. Getting the control of the key parts of the overall business into his personal hands. Meanwhile creating an ever increasing influence on what is happening in the boardroom.
Meanwhile the boys who would be Kings or the King who would be King go round and round, getting nosier, ducking and diving which is the usual Rangers way. Achieving nothing. Where to now guys? And the bleating fans like that Graham guy, the fat clown Dingwall, the sons of struth, the followers of william, John Brown, the fat Big Hoose guy can just go and crawl back under their stones. (Sorry Tedi, nearly forgot you
, but you are now on a one man boycott anyway 
.)I do really like the link (posted earlier) to the article saying Ashley is looking at getting Rangers into the EPL. Now that would be fun. And a money making machine compared with what Rangers could achieve just operating within Scotland. Even if Rangers had to start in the English Championship (or lower) it would still be financially better then where they are at present. And surely the Rangers fans would lap it up. They after all see themselves as English with Scottish accents and have talked for years about being too big for Scottish football.
Would take the SFA/SPFL out of the game in one fell swoop. The EPL wont be worried about Ashley's double ownership. And if Swansea, Cardiff, Derry City, Berwick Rangers can play in leagues in foreign countries then the precedence has been set.
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Walter Smith, also duped apparently. Honest question, was he paid when he was Greens lickspittle, mouthpiece, chattel/hoor?
Some brass neck these Rangers 'legends'.
From the BBC website
Former Rangers manager Walter Smith says he will never return to Ibrox in an official capacity and regrets joining the troubled club's board.
Smith returned to Ibrox in November 2012 as a non-executive director under then-chief executive Charles Green and became chairman six months later.
"I still go to the games now and again, but I would not go back on to the board again
," the 66-year-old said."I learned it's an environment I'm not particularly comfortable in."
Smith also believes he should have stood down as chairman much sooner than he did in August 2013.
At the time, he accused Yorkshireman Green and former directors Brian Stockbridge and Bryan Smart of creating a "highly dysfunctional environment".
"Not particularily comfortable in", means being totally out of his depth and useless. There were many who pointed that out at the time on P&B and elsewhere. You didn't have to be brain surgeon to know he was only there as a patsy for Green.
His appointment was all about giving Green some credibility and keeping the great unwashed amongst the Rangers support on side. It worked. "At the time" when he accused Green etc of being rogues was said as he walked, but could have said the same at any time while he was still chairman. But cash in his pocket dictated his timing.
Smith no doubt was well rewarded for turning up. It is amazing how wise he can be after the event, when his uselessness is confirmed by himself, but of course he does not apologise to the Rangers fans on how he assisted Green in hoodwinking them.
Like so many other Rangers legends delighted to take the large amounts of money, but repeatedly show they are happy to treat the club and the fans with total contempt - as long as they are well paid for it.
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With his unlimited wealth, is it really worth the hassle for him to fight over what's left of the club, particularly if admin II comes to fruition.
What use are we to him with a further prolonged stint in the 2nd tier, with European Football (and being part a decent TV deal) being nothing more than a pipe dream.
The remaining support that's left continues to dwindle, as the team limps on without investment in new playing or coaching staff, Ticket sales and retail revenues plummet
Just lock the gates and take the market rate for whatever's left, (Ibrox & Murray Park)??
Is that what he really wants? I just cant see it, but then nothing would surprise at present.
I don't think Ashley cares a jot what league they are in, as long as they have a worldwide fanbase and a recognisable brand. Which they have. Despite boycotts organised by fans or by Kingy that is just local and with some common sense can be recovered pretty quickly.
Think it is important to see Ashley's motives being totally different from the ambitions of the fans. So another year in the Championship will not be a show stopper for him. Below that? Not sure.
The sort of investment needed to sort out Rangers (given he tackles the obscenely high running costs) is chickenfeed to Ashley.
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The shareholder parties that advised they would not vote YES when asked will have been noted and most likely witnessed ....
I have a feeling it was King and his cronies otherwise they would have had it spread all over the press by now ...
Hero status and gud ragers man ... for how long? Did Tedi not back him ... kiss of death.
If there was a significant minority (20%) who did not vote yes, then the directors must take their views into consideration. They are representing the company as opposed to even a majority of shareholders.
There are many cases where minority shareholders took such decisions to court and won where decisions were made to benefit majority shareholders.
Just found one I know from way back, action by someone with less than 25% of the shares. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19880125&id=XzpAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UlkMAAAAIBAJ&pg=2377,5331402 He won, and won well!
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The rumour about the Park loan for two seats on the board (being near to completion) .. anyone think that MA or his shareholders will let that be voted in? Just more posturing in the press?
If Carver truly was a bid and had no allegiance to either side ... has King misjudged the situation and sent them tumbling over a precipice with no safety rope attached?
If it turns out to be the case ... how will the fans view their
convicted criminalhero then?Carver submitted a proper bid, as reported to the stock market. You may question his motives and who he was chumming up with, but it was a legitimate offer(s).
With just a quick glance as what has been happening (unfortunately I don't have the time or inclination to monitor every dodgy move) you can see The Rangers est 2012 has a market value of just over £20mill.
Some guy comes along makes an offer of £22mill for a majority share, plus £6.5m to help them continue trading.
The directors of the company have legal obligations. A couple are below.
The success of the company remains the paramount concern for directors. The legislation prompts the board to think about these different factors, but they must remain subsidiary to the over-arching requirement the directors have to act in the way they believe, in good faith, is most likely to promote the company’s success.
A director is on the board to act in the best interests of the company as a whole, not to represent the interests of just one shareholder or even a group of like minded investors. That rule applies irrespective of the circumstances in which the director has been appointed.
So to turn down Carver's offer which looks as if it would satisfy many of the above obligations, without some alternative would seem to run the risk of putting the directors at risk of not carrying out their obligations properly. Llambias and his MA sidekick would know what they have to do and what they can't do. Personal liability would be avoided at all costs.
The one thing Llambias and his board mate know for sure is the thinking of Mike Ashley. Only conclusion I can draw is that Ashley will be able to move to saviour status at some point soon. Every day that goes by gets The Rangers (2012) closer to meltdown.
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Fruity King Stadium? I assume the King bit is to acknowledge the role of Dave 'Dodgy' King in helping Rangers get to where they are today.The Fruity King Stadium deal has been done for £1.5M
The Fruity part I don't understand. I can only presume this must refer to Richard Gough, one time Rangers player, and no doubt Rangers legend.
Hopefully Tedi and his mates can 'out' Fruity!
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I'm pretty sure that's not what you actually meant to say. Go on, chap, have another go and see if you can get it right this time.
Thanks for your really useful reply
. Looking at subsequent posts I see you are most concerned about the top tier of the Ibrox stand being closed. I think choosing to discuss such inconsequential nonsense goes some way to proving my point.However just clarify the point I was making. Rangers supporters are in general pretty thick. Many extremely. Because of this they have failed totally to see through smooth talkers who wear suits, telling the fans what they want to hear while they strip the club, starting with David Murray.
It was after all non Rangers fans who have continually outed the crooks and cowboys who have robbed the club to within an inch of its very existence. In return they get abuse and accusations of being in league with Celtic or some similar long term enemy of which there are many to choose from. The most substantial contribution of attempted worth from a Rangers fan will comprise a cut and past about company law or SFA regulation.
I am not saying all Rangers supporters are thick, but 99% behave as if they are. The other one percent who have the ability to play a positive role for the club are put off totally by the other 99%.
.
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Would you honestly argue with the claim that most of Scotland's idiots gravitate towards the OF clubs? I'm not claiming that every OF fan is an idiot, but I'd have thought that the evidence of what I am saying, is overwhelming.
I am sure not all are idiots, but it is really difficult to find the ones who aren't.
You can use the current goings on at Rangers and how those Rangers fans react as a basis of deciding where the non idiots are.
Just now we have batches of shares changing hands, various groups coming and going. Challenges from various directions such as HMRC, people like Dave King "a glib and shameless liar" getting involved, the SFA/SPFL blustering around. The club running out of money a few weeks at a time. I would say these activities are important to understand so those outside the doors of Ibrox can make some judgement about what out of all this might be best for the club.
Add to that the management of the club (the business that is). After years of definitely dodgy and often incompetent management we now have people with personal reputations to protect, and proven ability of running businesses successfully. Is this ever mentioned by the Rangers fans as a benefit or otherwise to their club. I don't care what your conclusion is, but at least debate it.
Because of their ability (intellectually) to discuss,understand or interpret these things, we end up with a mish mash of verbiage of what player they should buy,how good is the coach, who is a legend or which club is more bigoted than they are. All totally and utterly irrelevant to the pressing issues at hand.
Unfortunately when I see the tirades of Tedi and his mates I just see people who don't know how to cope with the important things in their club, in football or in life. Sad.
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Ashley has under 10% and can't increase that.
He has £3m of loans with securities
He has retail deals in place, which may or may not have to remain.
I'm not an expert like you are but going on the available evidence it looks like Ashley (thanks to the SFA) may not be as strong as some people think he is.
You say Ashley can't increase his shareholding above 10%. Well he can. But of course what will happen if he does is to get the SFA on his case. The SFA can't stop him buying more shares. That would create all sorts of significant legal problems for the SFA.
What they can do is respond in some way through the club licence.
But what would the SFA do? Ban Ashley? Fine him? Disqualify him? Revoke the Rangers licence? There are no options that are easy for them. And any of them would be vigorously challenged I would guess. Some by Ashley, some by the Rangers fans.
If it ends up the SFA against Ashley it would be the SFA that would bottle it.
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I was rather referring to the significance this saga clearly means to you and how much time spent as a preoccupation it must expend. There are plenty of others on here but I think that you do stand out as the Uberfan when it comes to bitching about the Gers, reckon that's some accolade given the company you're in.
There is an old saying "Don't sh*t on people on the way up, you might meet them on the way down".
Rangers sh*t on people as they rose through the ranks right from the days of utter crap they were under John Greig
From their lofty perch they continued to sh*t at every opportunity on everyone below them.
Even after they were found out to be frauds, they continued to try to crap on everyone else without realising the perch had plummeted to the bottom of Scottish football.
OK? Got the idea?
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We're getting closer to the 51% the good guys need. The three bears and King together have 34%, then you have the likes of Ally, Sir Walter, Rangers first, the rst and other individual Rangers shareholders. The spivs are running out of time.
Oh aye, Ally being one of the good guys what luvs Rangers at any cost. He loves them so much he would work for Rangers for a pittance.
Only if you think a million quid payoff is a pittance that is.
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This is an incredibly daft question probably, but I'm not an economic expert like all of you.
Why is Ashley bothered about Rangers? He's already incredibly rich. Is it just a case of trying to hoover assets while keeping the club barely afloat?
Is it really worth all the trouble it's causing him?
<<< isn't ruthless/capitalist enough to survive in the "world of business"
What trouble? He seems to be sitting back, relaxing, letting everyone else get worked up.
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What I don't understand is that Ashley has no interests in the club. Cockwomble confirmed that the club is independent of the company which owns it. The company may go bust but the club carries on. Ashley's dealings are with the company which owns the club, not the club itself, so I don't see how he can be doing anything wrong. Our lords and masters really are getting themselves into a tangle.
There have been a lot of strange goings on recently.
Mike Ashley provides secured loans. His long stop defence?
Dave King tries to destabilise the club and its finances with boycotts etc. Plan to get share price down to a level he could afford to buy in?
The 3 Bears appear. Why now? Where were they when they were needed? Or were they just scared of Chuckie?
Institutional investors sell their shareholdings at pretty much the same time. At a loss. Unusual timing. Do coincidences like this just happen to happen?
The man from Phoenix appears out of the woodwork, sends an email or tow and then gets bumped.
Ashley gets his men in place as chief exec and finance director.
The printed media become the mouthpiece for King.
Doncaster engineers an 'interview' so he can get some statements out into the open about Rangers as an entity, club and company. Why now?
Was Doncaster aware of the potential share deals in Rangers prior to his BBC interview? Had the SFA been consulted by any current or potential shareholders before his interview? Somebody needs to ask him (and Campbell Ogilvie).
So lots going on and we can't really understand what is going on from outside the Big Hoose.
But as long as
Ashley and the bus boys stick together
Ashley holds on to the security for his loans
Ashley's men stay in key positions
and Ashley has deep pockets
then all the rest can bluster all they want, but it will achieve nothing.
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So can it be assumed that the easdales loan paid hmrc and there is no issues with hmrc or the slpf?
You are probably right
. Until the next time. Shame the payroll bill is so high. Too many staff, paid too much = high NI and tax due to HMRC. But the situation Rangers is in now was just so predictable. Do they not pay attention at the Big House?
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It all depends what arrangement they have in place with HMRC, it is normal for companies to have discussions with creditors how they are going to pay things. there is nothing in the BBC article that says 'late' just that payment is due, there is also nothing in that BBC article that suggests that any sort of SPFL penalty is possible, not saying they are not, just pointing out that it is not mentioned.
Tedi my son, you obviously have never 'negotiated' with HMRC about paying what they say is owed.
It is tough enough for any company to cope with HMRC demands, but if you have a track record of avoidance and ducking and diving they will not mess around. If they say 7 days, you damned well make sure they have the cash within 7 days.
And the sad part is that HMRC will view Rangers as the same company that has mucked them around for years. So as far as they are concerned the Rangers they are dealing with is the same bunch of spivs and crooks they have been trying to nail down since Murray's day. Presume you will be happy with that approach?
(Must tell you someday about the Rangers director who furnished his house and put the invoices (and the VAT) through the business. The fellow directors were ok with it but the VAT people were not.)
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Can someone tell me what this latest loan means?
Are Rangers saved for this season?
Is it looking likely this American chap will step in and save the Rangers?
Answers to your 2 questions.
1. NO.
2. NO.
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HMRC were told they were getting money from the LM transfer, the SFA stepped in and took 250k of this, so alternative funding had to be sought, its not that complicated m8.
Think Tedi is of the opinion that Rangers run a "teapot" accounting system. When they get some cash in the door it goes into a teapot on the mantelpiece. One teapot for wages, one for travel and hotels for away games, one for HMRC. And if one teapot doesn't have enough in it when you have to pay something, then you don't pay that bill.
As Tedi says, it is not that complicated.
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Collectively the good guys now own the largest single majority of shares. We can make decisions and it may take time to stop the rot but we're clearing away the deadwood (spivs)
You can count shareholdings all day long, or who would win what vote, but the reality is Ashley holds all the cards.
He has his loan money sitting then, and if something happens, or is threatened to happen, that he doesn't like he can squeeze the board for repayment. He has Llambias as chief executive and Barry Leach with his feet under the table and you can be sure that they are calling ALL the shots.
They are the ones who dumped the 10 staff, got Ally out of harms way, dictated to Mcdowall what he should do, found out Durrant and chased him.
I would be amazed if they couldn't cut the payroll in half by the summertime. The players will whimper, their agents will scream, and the fans will as ever shout from the sidelines. But all pointless and quite irrelevant.
The path ahead is clear. What the 3 Bears could add beyond what Team Ashley could do is not clear.
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. Looking at subsequent posts I see you are most concerned about the top tier of the Ibrox stand being closed. I think choosing to discuss such inconsequential nonsense goes some way to proving my point.
. Until the next time.
Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
Posted · Edited by thelegendthatis
Jim could be the man. This is him appealing to a pensioner to help bale out the Rangers using just some of his 'out of this world' wealth. For those not of a religious persuasion, 'out of this world' wealth is the same as wealth 'off the radar'. .