Ric

It would be interesting to know what the OP actually wants. He accepts that punishment is needed yet then goes on to say that if punished then it would be bad for the game. Personally I think the bottom line is that cheating both the tax paying public and the general ethics within sport means you should be dealt with severely. If we have clubs that will struggle because of any possible loss of income that shouldn't mean Rangers are not punished because of that, it's the fault of those clubs putting so much emphasis on the money that was inflated by the OF being in the league. Ultimately the reason these clubs over stretched was to compete with the utter duopoly that existed. My club has cut it's cloth and now pretty much debt free (although they are not mentioned in the OP's "doing well list"), and we have done this to the detriment of success. Nigh on 20 years in the 1st division while those at the top table lapped it up means I have very little sympathy for Rangers. Even now we have a club for sale for about £2m, that is the price that the OF pay for a bit part player that will sit on the bench. It's that level of massive inequity that has bred contempt and it seems that schadenfreude is being served with generous helpings of jelly and ice cream and on a whole most people see it as the right thing to be done. Well except for the Rangers fans who somehow think they should be treated with some sort of leniency.

We can tell that by the need you have for attention by starting your own thread on a subject already running. Of course being calm and being adult means PUTTING THINGS IN CAPITALS. The facts are you cheated both the sport and the general public. So a duopoly is fine but you are worried about a monopoly? You seem to be missing a point that most on here couldn't give a f**k for either side of the OF and would happily see the day when both are put to the sword.

Without wanting to requote that flyer, but are they calling for "no more impartial punishment" .. So they wish partial punishment?

As much as it disappoints me, I agree with Swampy, at least to an extent. While it's all shit and giggles to watch the foaming from the mouth of the knuckledraggers over at RM, I do wonder just what effect an embargo will have. Unless that embargo is implicitly linked to the SPL licence (and I can't see how it could be) then surely a NewCo would simply dodge it. It's also highly possible that any appeal could reduce the period it operates, say to 6 months so that even if it was in place the 6 months could mean missing out on one transfer window during the summer. It would hamper a club but is far from a massive blow. Any fines places on Whyte would be difficult to recover and as for banning him from holding office, I would imagine the last place Whyte would want to be is near Rangers (or it's possible reincarnation) for fear of his own safety. I've been cynical from the start, mostly because the amount of money involved in retaining Rangers in the SPL, and I'm still of that mind.

On KDS? An unsubstantiated rumour? About Rangers? Pish you say? No.... surely not.

On the flip side I don't see why it won't happen. Obviously it won't be Rangers, but Govan United of whatever, but they'll still have a huge market in terms of merchandising and a massive fanbase in comparison to other clubs barring Celtic. A liquidated OldCo would remove the debt and wipe the slate clean, a NewCo brought into the SPL so that there are still essentially OF games (albeit not technically) and the points deduction and inability to be in Europe for a couple of years wouldn't hamper them greatly. The only fair result is, if Rangers are liquidated, is that an already established club is voted into the SFL at the bottom tier and any Govan United starts off in the juniors, but while that is fair in the eyes of the fans it's not going to be accepted by our club chairmen who see the OF thanks to the TV deal as essential in terms of keeping their clubs in the black.

I think it's more a case that it'll be Rangers in all but name. A newco is created, the current company liquidated and the new one allowed into the SPL and bearing (no pun intended) all the hallmarks of the current regime. They'll incur penalties for being a newco but in essence they will have backers willing to fund a new company because the slate had been wiped clean and there is an already existing market for fans and merchandising. Enough to pay the administrators?

I suddenly have visions of Leggat being in Naked Lunch, rubbing powder into his typewriter as the amber of the street lights flicker in through the curtains only to wake up next morning with no memory but a new article written.

That's the first time I've ever read his blog.. ..bloody hell he makes even your questionable journalistic skills worthy of a Pulitzer.. Seriously though, he strikes me as someone who is writing that stuff on the wall of his cell using a crayon with his feet because he is tightly bound in a straight jacket.

What is that meant to demonstrate? I think you have got your billions mixed up with your millions. Sure the amount Rangers have diddled from the tax man, even at it's smallest, is abhorrent, but you can't compare it to massive public spending on things like Pensions or Heath Care.

Would the cynic in me be right in thinking that they will hold off any decision until after the OF game in order to get the money in from that? Maybe I'm exaggerating how much income a game like that generates considering the league is now over. It's pretty much the angle I've been taking from the start. Rangers will be playing in the SPL in some form next season and any punishment will still see them comfortably richer than the chasing pack.

There are going to be an awful lot of annoyed fans when Govan Rangers FC make an appearance in the SPL next season, playing in red white and blue strips, playing at Ibrox, and having no debts and a very limited set of punishments.

Again, I think I'll just leave this here....

Now I have to say that I rarely go anywhere near a club specific site, I even avoid B&WA to an extent, but as I had some spare time and a WiFi connection I thought I'd toddle off to RangersMedia for a bit of point and laugh material, and by God do they know how to deliver that in spades... http://goo.gl/10rF9 Entitled "Rangers Don't Need Morality Lessons From The Celtic Persuaded" you can guess before you start just where the article is going, but other than being a veiled attempt to claim the moral high ground of the oppressed it ticks of Old Firm Bingo in a matter of sentences. It's a long one (phnarr..) and a touch painful to read but does provide a fairly high chuckle ratio which rises when you get to the user feedback.

Considering that geographical constraints seem to be secondary; OF in the EPL, OF in an Atlantic League, etc, then I think that logic would be quite sound..

I think I'll leave this here... http://www.rangersunite.com/the-proposal/

There was quite a famous one, several years ago, where people were putting screenshots of their desktop layouts and backgrounds and someone had a folder called "shemale pics". Edit: When looking, I found this.. http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/xeokys/Clipboard01-1.png (SFW)

A bookmarked folder, not just a bookmark on it's own, of trolling. Aye, aye....

FTA: "But they'll hopefully have a wealth of integrity and decency, which seems to be in short supply right now." Aye, not least from Mr Hately himself. He was a decent player in his time but by God what a load of shit he talks off it.

Who's trolling? Falkirk cheated. At least they claim to be a Scottish institution rather than an Irish one..

You mean like Falkirk "played by the rules", spent all their money on players to win the 1st and refused to upgrade their stadium like other teams? That said the disgrace was at least avoided and they were rightly refused entry to the SPL.

Cosgrove and Cowan are a really shit one trick pony. The only thing they ever monster is the good name of comedy. They are the Limmy of radio. Predictable and shit, rehashing old ideas and thinking they are in some way good. What are they going to do about it? Like I said to WTM the best they can do is report them to UEFA. A process that would take some time, and money, to resolve, and would no doubt open a Pandora's Box as I doubt that Rangers are by in any way the worst offenders of not paying clubs for players. Ultimately it's entirely out of their jurisdiction and have little bearing on the matter at hand. Indeed, you are certainly correct there, but quite what the punishment will be is yet to be seen. If clubs like St Mirren, for example, had run up a debt of £134m then the SPL and SFA wouldn't think twice about throwing us out of the league and taking as much punitive action as possible.

That is all a wonderful sentiment, even if it does sound like you are chastising me for my natural cynicism (hardly surprising considering the OF get all the breaks, all the time) however the basic facts remain that Rangers removed from the equation will not repay everyone's debt, and one that is kept as a going concern will. Add together the will of those in power within the game in Scotland openly wishing for Rangers to remain as is and I cannot see them disappearing. The comment about the English is a little bizarre as they have nothing to do with it, as do the Austrian or French FA's, but I do see the point you are making, albeit I feel it will be of little relevance in the grand scheme of things. I also don't believe, as you, that UEFA would somehow punish other Scottish teams if the SFA or SPL were to bend over for Rangers. In fact I can't actually see any legal justification for it unless the government got involved as, as far as I can see, Rangers haven't actually broken and UEFA rules. They have of course broken the laws of the land but that is an entirely different jurisdiction and one with UEFA have no bearing on. I am really not sure if you follow a team in the SPL or not (you seem disinclined to reveal any club associations on your profile) but the last paragraph is certainly odd as I felt we had passed the point at which the Scottish league is viewed as being trustworthy or creditable some time ago. You are right in the sense that something needs to be done, and that there has to be an example set, but for me I still see that situation amounting to "Now we have seen what trouble Rangers are in, we'll make sure no other club is capable of doing so in the future" rather than Rangers being used as an example themselves.

I think gents, and I do hope I am wrong here, but the SPL, the SFA and the Scottish Government all seem consider Rangers too important (for differing reasons, fair or otherwise) to disappear. In that sense we will see them retained in the SPL whether under the current guise or as a newco, and if a newco it will be accepted open arms into the SFA and in turn given Rangers' old berth in the SPL. The chairmen of the diddy clubs will hum and ho about it but will bend over in order the television money is retained, no sanctions will be placed on either Rangers or the newco. Sure there may be new rules put into place so that no other club can do the same but in reality this won't affect Rangers. In fact it'll probably end up hurting the clubs lower down when some sort of income/expenditure rules are put into place. Ultimately the people who are owed money will be told that a going concern will benefit them and their coffers far more than killing the club, and on that basis some sort of structured payment will be worked out. This may leave them trailing Celtic in the finances department but they will still be head and shoulders above their nearest rivals below them. The final indignity will be the sight of completely ingrained supporters claiming that the whole world was against them and that they have rightfully triumphed over the evils that lay in their path utterly oblivious to the real situation that has seen them bailed out not because of what they did but who they are and who their friends are. It's sickening to think that this will be the outcome, but I think it's clear by the way things have been going that Rangers have been given the benefit of the doubt on countless occasions where other teams wouldn't have been. This will continue and the gap at the top which has shortened a little for now will grow once more.

Am I the only person looking at this and thinking that nothing will happen to Rangers, they will get their knuckles rapped by the HMRC, the SPL will bend over to take them back in should they form a newco, the television companies will insist on the OF continuing in it's current form and those in positions of power are as likely to be fans than not so will make every effort to ensure there is no lasting negatives from what is, pretty much, basic cheating on a grand scale. If that happens, then as someone has already said, there is no point in even following a team in Scotland as the odds will continually be rigged against all but the big two teams.