BrigtonClyde

Was at this game & 2 things I remember about it. Danny Docherty, strange one. Signed from Morton in the summer, started the season & looked a player to be fair, but for some reason only played a handful of games and went back to Morton within a couple months of signing. Think he was a local lad. The referee that night was Hugh Young. We'd met him the summer before on holiday in Spain during the time of the World Cup, but didn't know he was a ref initially. We're watching the Brazil v Argentina game together when Maradona got sent off. As he's walking off he blessed himself and Young went mad with rage shoutin at the tv "YER BLESSIN YERSEL & YOU'VE NEARLY BROKE A MAN'S LEG YA DIRTY WEE b*****d". Meant to add, that was Hugh Young of Larkhall.......

John Hart

Still hurling racist abuse at your own players?

Fair comment, suppose the mind wanders when a thread in theory could be very short. OK, let's give it a go. Assume we're talking here about "goalscorers" ready to come into the full international set up between now and next couple of years. Current recent picks seem to be Dykes, McBurnie, Shankland, Burke, Brophy, Griffiths (maybe?). Don't know if we're placing Fraser & Christie in this category. Doubt we'll include the likes of Paterson and Naismith So, how many SPFL clubs have Scottish strikers playing and scoring regularly for their clubs, and how many of those clubs are regularly playing at European level - all combined just as an indication a young lad's getting ready for the international first team ? How many eligible strikers are playing & scoring regularly at Championship or Premiership level in England, or overseas ? Lewis Morgan in the States and the young lad Hornby in France might be worth a look. Anyone else ? Been impressed with Dykes but there's a reason Clarke looked around and then persuaded him to commit to Scotland.

True, aye. If all players available they're decent enough, but I reckon to really get back up the levels it'll depend what's coming through. But they seem to thing there's a few promising lads, so fingers crossed

True SLW, but Forest were known as a team who sat deep and hit on the break, so Burns had plenty of cover. I just think the main problem was, and is for any team, if you've a weak defence - and that one was hastily put together / chopped and changed - you're in trouble with midfielders then having to cover areas they shouldn't have to. Just becomes a shambles That said, Iran took some explaining, brutal performance all round. The documentary did point to the 'hotel' they were staying in which looked equally brutal together with the training facilities, and the players were bored rigid. So whether that played a part, who knows. Aside from Dalglish and Jordan, I think the second choice strikers we had around that time were Harper, Johnstone, Wallace and Andy Gray. When Stein came in I think he only gave Gray a few starts then started introducing the likes of Steve Archibald & Alan Brazil, then a bit later Nicholas etc. But we did seem to have a greater number of options going into the 90's than we have in recent years.

I'm not sure it is like watching different players, in some cases anyway, but there again the national side isn't made up entirely of players playing at the highest level in England or overseas. This isn't just about the national side, our top club sides have faced the same kind of thing in European competitions against so called minnow countries for years. It's mainly the midfield movement, use of space and creativity that others seem to develop better IMO it's a mix of things up here, the type of player clubs tell their scouts to prioritize, the nature of coaching & the lack of a real Reserve league for the younger players to develop in. But of course it also comes down to the national manager's approach to the game, choice of players available, getting the best out of what he's got. Last night was an improvement for sure and Fraser's pace adds a lot. The last 30 minutes was much more like it, but Israel moved it around quicker than Slovakia even allowing for the fact last night's team selection was better than Thursday's. But if it's true as seems to be more of our younger lads are being picked up by clubs elsewhere, then further down the line that's promising. We'll just have to see.

The situation as I remember it at that time was that we weren't blessed with loads of fantastic defensive options, but he was used to his regular 4. McGrain got injured the summer before so was out the whole season, but McQueen was a lot closer to the finals, so it threw him. The defenders hadn't got used to playing with each other, Burns was obviously supposed to be a direct replacement for McQueen, but it doesn't always work as straightforward as that. Buchan was a class act, really a sweeper, but in a pretty poor Man Utd. McGrain was hard to replace because he was both a solid defender and good attacking full back. Jardine was more the former, Kennedy more the latter So it basically took him the three games to try & work out which seemed to be the best pick, although none would be as good as his first pick. These are the days before "holding midfielders". They were obviously expected to carry out defensive duties, but the concept of a specific role to protect the defence didn't come in until years later though you'd maybe have a tough tackler in there. Back in line with the original thread, we had good striking options but that wasn't the problem. We went there with a weak defence, and a midfield picked who couldn't create chances against Iran. He changed that against Holland but the damage was done.

You're correct about Jardine actually, for some reason I remembered Buchan at right back The defensive line ups changed every game Peru - Kennedy Burns Forsyth Donnachie Iran - Jardine Burns Buchan Donnachie Holland - Kennedy Buchan Forsyth Donnachie Almost certain if available it would have been, for all 3, McGrain, McQueen, Forsyth, Donnachie McQueen travelled. IIRC he smashed his knee against a post v Wales at Hampden in Home Championships, same game Donnachie scored an OG. Presumably hope was he might have recovered in time if we'd got through group stage, but doubt it with a knee injury Rioch played v Holland. If what you're saying about him and Masson subsequently saying they felt they were past it is correct, pity they didn't tell the manager at the time then, isn't it

Didn't see the game but on paper at least that's one of the strongest squads we've had in a very long time with impressive attacking options in particular I have my own preference as the centre back pairing but if we stay clear of the horrendous injuries we had this time last year, we should be aiming at a healthy playoff position at least this season. Good start from the lads today

And the chance to win 'a superb set of John Letters irons.....goodbye for the present'

That's how I saw it. Israel just the latest to first touch, pass & move much better and quicker than us. 2nd choice Czechs did it, Cyprus did it, they all do it. That's coaching at youth & club level. We're slow & laboured by comparison, ended up long balls to bypass their midfield because we just couldn't play through it. Not even sure if any midfielders from the regular picks would make that much difference, maybe 1 or 2, most are much of a much. Only hope longer term these kids we've got with clubs in England & overseas learn how to play properly there. Decent choice of defenders now right enough, but must be a difficult shift for the forwards feeding off next to nothing. Half time the Sky presenter giving it "Steve Clarke has plenty of firepower to call on if need be" was the best part of the whole night. Who's that exactly, Callum Paterson ?! You'd need to get the ball to them first.....

The main problem in 78 was the defence. At that time it wasn't exactly water tight anyway, but he lost his two best to injury, McGrain & McQueen. Kennedy was tried as a replacement to McGrain and replaced by Buchan, a sweeper. McQueen was replaced by bombscare Burns. Forsyth and Donnachie were the other two regulars at the time and both played, but if he didn't have those injuries, very likely we'd have got through that group The regular midfield at the time who got us there and won the Home Championships usually included a pick from Hartford, Masson, Macari, Rioch, Souness & Gemmill. All played. Nobody was moving Jordan & Dalglish from the forward line. Wallace was tried in a friendly against Bulgaria. Johnstone was only there if Jordan got injured. He got a better balance in midfield against Holland - we should really have scored a few more than 3 - but probably caught them cold as they thought they'd just need to turn up, especially after they went ahead with the pen. Ifs / buts, if Masson doesn't miss the pen at 1-1 v Peru etc etc. Iran was the worst performance out the lot but would have got away with that with a full defence available. Though McLeod came a cropper, at least he talked up the team, got results up til then, had a positive approach, got the fans excited. Stein came in and the first thing he said was we need to cut that out, lower expectations and basically realize we're only Scotland. He did well enough but we've had that mentality ever since. It's been on a couple times on the BBC Scotland channel

That's what I was meaning, you'd have to think that if pretty tight restrictions continued to be in place for the foreseeable future then the majority of the lower league clubs wouldn't see it as viable. In which case presumably The Joint Response Group would step in. Highly unlikely ppv would be anywhere near what's needed. I personally just can't see any way the season can start if the regulations remain as they are now or are tightened further which seems to be what we're all being prepared for

AFAIK the reason the league season was delayed to 17th October was on the assumption that supporters would be allowed back into stadiums by then. So presumably that's a provisional date because unless they are, it's not financially viable for clubs as there isn't the tv money subsidy which the SPFL clubs receive. With the current messages being sent out and the early impression given that there will be specific restrictions set between now and March, it's hard to see supporters being allowed back in anytime soon. So what will the clubs do, begin the season and "see how it goes" in the hope restrictions are lifted relatively quickly or just decide to draw a line under it until the new year...or have I missed something here ?

You're goin to the gym .....have they hired you out as a fucking trampolene ya fat kunt??

Early part of the season I'd agree but they developed well by around December when Howie got injured. At that stage we desperately needed Lang in as there was no cover, and left back only got solved when the lad from Motherwell came in Lang's class but he's not there now, so all I'm meaning is I think Howie & Rumsby are still potentially an option while also needing the full back position addressed. Course if we have the resources to first of all find then pay for another very strong CB option fine, but assuming we don't, I wouldn't write off that partnership.

With Syvertson it depends what stage he's at after a year out. If he's still the level he was finishing 18/19 season and appeared to have stepped up again pre season, would definitely have him on board. Banks & Syvertson caused a lot of problems switching wings, defenders aren't used to these kind of players these days and I think the idea was Johnson was to fill Banks' role. We never really replaced Syvertson all season and it threw a few plans out the window. Playing two players like that also means Goodie can play a loan role as it brings the whole midfield up closer to him. I'm not sure he's injury prone, he took a bad one in pre-season and previously was concussion, it's not like it's an ankle or hamstring. But dare say DL will have to judge that when he's had a look at him. Agree we need a left back, midfield will depend on who we've re-signed but will need one or two different options there. Howie & Rumsby were developing a good partnership until Howie got injured in December, so I wouldn't write that off. But like most clubs, will just have to see what the financial position is after all this and who's available. As for Queen's Park, not so much I fear them as fear for them. Short term I see how the arithmetic adds up, but longer term with 500 fans and a ground that'll hold around 2k, no chance without continued external funding and that's when your future's out your own hands. If maybe they sold Hampden and written in a clause they still get a small % of annual income for a few decades, possibly. I just can't see what the long term full time game plan here is.

Understand what you're saying, but 3 x 14 has been touted as "for one season only" to accommodate the situation created by the virus. So presumably the season after, the leagues will be reverted to 12 & 3 x 10 - bearing in mind they were set up that way as deemed the most competitive set up, which they are. On that basis, Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar, Cove and possibly one or two others have a genuine grievance. First obviously next season they're in the bottom tier. But the most they can play for next season is promotion back into the reverted League 1 which is where they would have been next season anyway with an opportunity to push for promotion to the Championship. That's a full season of opportunity taken away from them. By comparison, many who will end up in the Premier and "Championship" next season can't believe their luck. So when next season starts, all the clubs need to know what they're playing for. Is the 3 x 14 one season only, or will it be another case of whichever way the wind's blowing. That needs to be established and written in stone before the season begins.

Largely it has been consistent, but yes there has then been subsequent shifting of positions. Some under-estimated, some over-estimated. As for stats, again true they don't include cases not admitted to hospital. However the hospital figures are accurate. Bearing in mind we're still in "pre-lockdown" lag, the percentage figures of Scotland's population as at 13th April for hospital admissions was confirmed cases 1.1%, deaths, 0.0001% Sadly of course this would be expected to continue in the short term. The key has always been safeguarding those deemed "vulnerable". A second wave in itself wouldn't be the problem, it would depend on those in most danger continuing to observe the restrictions for their own safety, and the rest of us observing social distancing from them as we are now. I agree it was always going to be a gradual process of lifting restrictions. Putting all that to one side though. At the start of March it was obvious the season would not finish before the end of June. So if it was impossible to get round the contract issue, what would then have been complicated about having to accept that, league's over, pay out the prize shares.....what exactly were they waiting for, what is there to negotiate ?

But in that case Shadwell, if the contracts ending on June 30th made it impossible to complete a season, and there was never going to be any chance that the season would restart until late May earliest, why was the lower league season not finished by now, on the simple basis it's "impossible" to complete it ? Why's it even still a discussion ?

Well if it was absolutely impossible Diamonds, you would assume that the league would have already finished the season and not suggested a date of 10th June. If that's the major stumbling block, why has the season not already been declared finished, why would there even be the need for a vote ?

Indeed. They also include figures on new cases admitted to hospital as at midnight that day.

That's the wrong question. The relevant information is readily available

I've already replied about tv. If the date of May 25th is indeed what appears to be the one getting touted as the restrictions being lifted generally, that will give players 2 - 3 weeks to train. As for the contracts, so in these absolutely unique circumstances, it's outwith everyone involved to put forward a practical solution is it ? Doubt that.