zurcher

Right out the evangelical handbook there - "Prove god doesn't exist!" firstly it's very difficult to prove a negative, secondly the onus is probably not on me here to prove this didn't happen, more the other way round. I'm not saying it didn't, I'm saying it's so unlikely that it's either made up or a totally distorted verions of events, and for you to use it as some sort of justification for your idiotic suggestions and then ask me to prove it didn't happen is silly.

Ran ootay greenies but that deserves one!

Haha, the outburst. As I asked you several pages back, do you imagine this law firm only has one lawyer there? Or do you imagine this seemingly made up outburst (where's the evidence for it?) means this guy will force a group of professional lawyers to break every rule in the book, risking their careers to do so, just because he's a Celtic man and therefore hates the berzz? Right so, you're not a bigot then, you're just a fantasist.

Bringing the game into disrepute, acting in an improper manner, cheating Dundee Utd and the SFA out of cash owed for a cup game, maximum penalty short of expulsion given for every offence. They didn't find you guilty of the dual contracts (yet) but you were found guilty on 5 of 6 breaches and it was described as one step short of match fixing.

con·de·scend·ing Your "perfectly valid reasoning" is based around your own bigotry, that's the sad thing. You project your own morals onto those of others, i.e. you hate the 'tic and given the chance would f**k them over by faking evidence in the same position, so you assume that because this law firm has an association with Celtic that they must be fans, are also bigoted and biased and will do everything in their power to f**k Sevco. It's ridiculous, and really quite sad. Is that me on the naughty list then? Am I being ignored?

The funniest thing the last week or two was how the more annoying, offensive orcs the ulster goon were all over the board after they pumped East Stirling and beat Falkirk, then disappearred for a few days after the Berwick game, only to be back with a feckin vengeance after pumping Falkirk.

While the part in bold is true of the dual contracts in reference to fielding inelligible players, it's not technically true of the tax case. HMRC decide their schee was illegal and Rangers can appeal it, so in that sense they are guilty until proven innocent, but as you correctly point out, this died with DeadClub anyway.

Aw jesus here we go. Listen, I don't *disagree with you* as many of the things we're discussing are not matters of opinion, you are clearly wrong on several points, and (excuse the insult here but it's demonstrably true) idiotic on the "I've made my feelings pretty clear on the H&M front - they'll fabricate evidence against us because they're pure heavy duty tarriers". I engaged with you earlier, and tried to have a reasonable discussion, but you are so wildly wrong on so many things and totally unwilling to listen to reason that it's difficult not for that to get a bit pissy. Look, I apologise if I have overstepped the mark and have upset you, I don't want to kill the debate. Often I was using "you" in the collective sense, so not all of the insults were directed at you (singular), more at you (orcs), but talking to a brick wall can be pretty feckin frustrating.

Yes I did read the OP comment and as I tried to explain above, maybe I have to be a bit more obvious, he is correct. HMRC decided the scheme DeadClub were using was illegal, decided you were guilty of avoidance/evasion (I prefer the Kent Brockman version "avoision" myself) and forwarded you an initial bill, with more to come pending further investigation. I.e. HMRC finding you guilty of using illegal methods to not pay tax is exactly the correct way to describe it. DeadClub then exercised their right to appeal against this effective guilty of avoidance decision from HMRC and so we had the big tax case. Clear?

What exactly is he then? I happen to agree with him, you lot are beneath me too. Beneath most of us here.

Jesus, again with the basic misunderstanding of the situation, sending out the demand is exactly HMRC saying "this tax set up you have is ridiculous and unlawful and here's the feckin bill, thanks very much". Rangers then appealed against the decision, hence the tax case. This has been explained on this thread at least a thousand times, try to keep up.

This is crap. So by your reasoning, the fact I live in Switzerland so canny make it to many more than one or two games a season mean I'm not a real fan? And that JMDP, who presumably lives in London for work and/or family reasons isn't a real fan because he prioritises those work and/or family reasons above his team? Ridiculous, a fan is a fan is a fan. I know people with season tickets (for Sevco mainly, funnily enough) who don't know the basic rules of the feckin game, who'll go every fortnight to be seen and to shout abuse at people, but donno the names of the players and canny remember the score from the week before, and you're telling me these are some how "better" fans than me or JMDP only because they go to the games?

Who is Tommy Gold anyway? That's quite feckin funny - "takin' over the Cludgie", "who ye talkin tae?" hahaha, the end is brilliant too.

Indeed, the irony and lack of self awareness is shocking innit? It's largely why I still check OrcMedia every day for guys who will give incredible sectarian abuse to anyone who disagrees with them then in the next post talk about how much they hate bigots. "I demand the right to call someone a durty f**ian, *****, tarrier, mhankie basturt and if you hink at's wrang then you're a pure bitter, twisted bigot in't ye?"

Firstly I'm sure I already mentioned this, probably a thousand or so pages back, but I have first hand knowledge of EBTs and know them to be tax dodging. The very nature of them guarantees that multiple contracts are necessary, as one contract is registered with the authorities showing the taxable salary, and then a second contract (which I assume to be the so called "side letters") is given to the employee on a top secret basis detailing the true amounts including what will be paid into the offshore account for "loan" purposes. These "loans" are never paid back, they are termed in this way only to take advantage of a legal grey area. Now for the non UK resident benificiaries who never, ever brought any of this cash into the UK, it's not a problem, for the UK resident ones who did, it's a massive issue. But this is beside the point, the relative fact for Rangers is that side contracts were issued, and these most definitely would not be registered with the authorities. Secondly, as I have definitely stated again quite recently, I don't really care about the stripping of titles, you can keep them as part of the history if it keeps you happy. The thing that bothers me is pretending that these 54 titles somehow have anything at all to do with Sevco. They demonstrably do not, and The Rangers' history started a couple of months ago when they bought the assets of Dead (dying to be pedantic) Rangers. So will I accept a not guilty verdict? I'll probably just laugh as it would ably demonstrate one set of rules for the rich and another for the rest of us. But the funniest thing about this is the often unemployed or low earning Rangers fans who blab on about EBTs as "legal" and nothing at all to worry about when it is genuinely tax dodging. A large proportion of your no doubt hard-earned season ticket and pie'n'bovril cash went offshore and no tax was ever, or will ever be paid on this from people you call heroes. If I was a Rangers fan that fact would outrage me. As I stated earlier, the punishment was invented to benefit you, as the only other option would be to suspend or expel you from the league, therefore effectively killing Rangers and Sevco as a going concern. Check the rules in the link I posted before, this is pretty clear. And that famous humility again eh? I have little doubt that you will climb back to the top, but the rest of us will never forget the cheating and hubris along the way. And again with the reasoned and articulate take down of my arguments. You are a star.

It's "seethe", and I do pay attention to the couple of Rangers fans here who post occasional sense but then largely all assume that because a firm of lawyers acted for their rivals that firm is automatically biased against them, that's no humility, that's stupidity. You aren't seriously going to deny to me that the vast majority of your fans fit quite nicely into the stereotype I have outlined are you? Even if you consider yourself not to, your postings on the lawyer situation have shown you to be as ridiculously ill-informed and blinkered as the worst of them, on that issue at least. I also am a Glaswegian, and most of my friends are Rangers fans, apart from one or two honourable exceptions, the vast majority, even guys I consider to be smart and sensible, talk the same pish that the rest of you come out with - it's all a conspiracy, everone haates us, we've been punished enough, nae f*nians are gaunie investigate us man. etc etc. But go on, you consider yourself to be a sensible Rangers poster, and in fairness you usually are from what I can see, but that sense is relative to the rest of them. The guilty charges (and one not proven), and details of rules broken are here: http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=9718

You know what? You're right. Your reasoned and articluate response, detailing where and how I'm wrong has made me see the error of my ways and I am now convinced that yes indeed, Rangers were unfairly maligned and Sevco being a debt free, but history burdened continuation of the old club is the correct situation, in fact I am now a Rangers supporter. Come on, are you feckin serious? *edited for typo.

I think you'll find that's exactly what we did, letter were written, emails sent, phone calls made telling everyone concerned as plainly as possible that to bend the rules to allow a bunch of bankrupt cheats back into the league debt free wasn't going to be tolerated. The club chairmen got the message and the result is Sevco are in SFL3. But when we were doing this all we got from you (I mean the collective you as in fans of Dead Rangers/Sevco) was how we were all bigots who hated Rangers fans and were blinded by our hatred. It's been stated before many, many times, but let's just get this clear - the only single punishment Rangers got for going into administration was the pishy 10 point deduction. The fine and transfer ban for was applied as the ONLY OTHER OPTION was to suspend or expel you from the league, it may have been an illegal punishment in that it wasn't a proper option for them, but you were found guilty of blatant cheating to the point where the only thing worse was actual conspiracy to fix matches. The fine and transfer ban was only another desperate attempt by the footballing authorities to do whatever they could to keep Rangers/Sevco alive when they should have booted you. Charlie One Suit took them to feckin court over it, the utter scumbag that he is. That is against all football rules, and Sevco should have been kicked out there and then, but again, no, in desperation to keep you lot going, they negotiate the terms of the ban and the fine, and allow you to make full use of this summer's transfer window, bending over backwards for the umpteenth time to help Rangers/Sevco, and you ungrateful swines do nothing but moan about how everyone hates you and everyone is bigoted against you and how you've been punished enough and blah blah blah. Many of us do hate you, yes, but it's the attitude described above that causes the hate - the utter lack of any awareness of how lucky you are still to have a club to support, the utter lack of any humility after years and years of cheating, the utter lack of acknowledgement of the help and support you got from the Scottish football authorities at every step of the way, the desperation to blame it all on one little crook when the whole organisation has been crooked for years, the feckin unbelievably ridiculous sense of entitlement, and almost worst of all, the feckin ridiculous hubris to try to claim that you don't want any special treatment when you've been demanding it, and getting it, all along! But you will all go on claiming THE establishment club, the organisation who cheated and stole and shamed themselves again and again, the club which is demonstrably dead, is only hated because it's successful and you're feckin hanging on to those 54 titles in your new form, watp. And yes, I seethe.

Haha fair point, well made. Although tbf I am typing on phone ffs.

While we're on the subject of spelling can some of you please try to learn the difference between your and you're, or there, their and they're? Ffs we're not orc media savages here.

Yer both wrong! Toast'n'cheese and cheese on toast would both signify only some cheese and some toast, I'm assuming you grilled it so the cheese melted, that is toasted cheese as far as I'm concerned. Better no start this though, I had a very long and very boring argument here a few months ago about who made the best pizzas, Italians or Americans! (I was on the Italian side, obviously) Anyhoo, are they deid yet?

And why are ye giving me reddies for asking a perfectly sensible question to your wild claim? You will note from the above that I didn't call youse cheating basturts, I said "potential cheats". I'm genuinely offended at the reddy for that! Edit to add: I gave ye a reddy right back for this pish: Answer the question will you? Is it just bragging rights over number of leagues won? Celtic will pass Dead Rangers 54 eventually, and it'll take Sevco a long time to catch up. A few other clubs who Rangers allegedly pinched cups from with inelligeble players will also gain, right? Or is that irrelevant as apart fae youse two cheeks, everyone else are just diddes?

In what way are Celtic "the only ones who have anything to gain"? Surely the standing of Scottish football will gain in the rooting out of potential cheats? What exactly would Celtic gain in all this?

"he is a celtic supporter" - do you think they only have one lawyer there or what? And because this one guy is a Celtic fan then the company should be automatically banned from any and all business related to Rangers? This is ridiculous. And what risk exactly? The risk that a few delusional orangemen think that a case against them will be biased? Tough on the orangemen most of us say, as I mentioned earlier, there really is no way to satisfy all the tools who would scream bias if the invetigating lawyer liked to occasionally have a pint of guinness and listen to U2, so you're just going to have to get over your own bias or bigotry here and stop looking through the "naebdy likes us, suddenly we do care a lot" glasses.

I believe it was the old Saw Doctors classic, "The Hash My Father Smoked" wasn't it? You're right though, singing Orange songs at a Rangers club isn't sectarian in the slightest is it? It's just about your "culture", just like those men who are only wanting the right to ram their culture down the throats of their neighbours in Belfast have spent the last three nights trying to kill policemen. Nothing sectarian about that eh? Why can't we all just get along? Actually, to be fair to the horrible old cnut, I think he was quite harshly treated over the whole thing, he's just a daft old Orangeman/Mason and I don't actually think for a second he hates catholics or whatever else he's been accused of. I don't even imagine for a second that he believes in God, but then that's typical of the "protestants" and "catholics" on either side innit? There's a certain level of black Scottish humour on both sides that mitigates this kind of thing, so let's not start a side debate on whether the Sash is sectarian or whether you have a "cultural right" to sing the Billy Boys etc. None of us want to turn Scotland into Norn Iron. So to get back to the point, Harper and McLeod do not exist only to serve Celtic, they are clearly a law firm who has Celtic as one of their clients. Now if you were asking them to represent the SFA in a case involving Celtic, then there might be a conflict of interest due to this involvement, but asking them to investigate some paperwork into Rangers? No, none whatsoever, unless, as one of the previous posters has asked, you are suggesting they will fabricate evidence to make Rangers look guilty? I assume you don't think that. And re the other point about it "having to look clean", the only way it would be possible to keep the worst of your mates happy would be to appoint only lawyers who are season ticket holders at Ibrox and proud wearers of the Sash on the (in)glorious 12th to the investigating committee. If evidence of wrongdoing is found and some of your madder mates think it's tainted due to bias, then they'll just have to learn to live with that while the other 98% of the country ignore them.