Dunty

I agree Loirston would be better. Where do you propose we get the extra £7m though? Would you accept adding £7m to the debt?

Laughable. What a dribbling mess you are.

The same Neil Lennon who froze him out st Celtic. I reckon McGinn watched Aberdeen dismantle Hibs the other week and realised if he wants trophies and Europe, then he has more chance of that at Kingsford than at Easter Road.

Because we can't go back 25 years ago and right the wrongs. Milne apart, it's a different board now, so can't hold Yule or Cormack responsible. Even Milne wasn't the chairman then, it was Ian Donald. Where we are is where we are. Pittodrie is not fit for purpose. We can't afford (and are likely unable to) rebuild a 20,000 stadium there. Some like yourself seem happy to build a 16,000 ground at a huge cost, or just keep paying 700k a year to stay in the same spot, but thankfully you're in the minority. Kings Links would be idea from a location point of view, but the actual site isn't. There's no-where else in the city centre. AECC: Minimum £18m to buy the land and still need to build training ground elsewhere. Dyce: No room or details on price. Loirston: Club tried. Council fucked them. Fans who said they wouldn't go if they built there now complaining that we moved elsewhere. Kinhsford: Of course it's not ideal. But it's affordable, it's workable, and therefore more deliverable than any other site. And if Kingsford gets rejected we won't be building at Pittodrie, Kings Links, or anywhere else in the city. The club will pick an Aberdeenshire site that is affordable. Balmedie, Blackburn or Portlethen are the ones suggested. Blackburn essentially the same as Kingsford. Portlethen at least has a train station. Balmedie - well the game is a bogey if we end up there. That isn't meekly agreeing with the board. It's just that having a tantrum and stomping our feet isn't going to solve anything.

Loirston didn't include enough shuttle buses. It would have had to have increased them, the same way they had (and will still have to) increase them at Kingsford. Funny how in hindsight so many who were dead against Loirston now are saying we should have built there (not saying you personally). And we would have built there had the council not promised us land then taken it from us. I was a big fan of Loirston and wished the council hadn't fucked us over. I'd love someone to come along and say "Listen, what is it, £7m extra to build at Loirston? Here's £10m, keep the change, use it to get yourself something nice like a train station". But when I hear the club admitting they face a huge challenge raising £50m, I don't think adding £7m to the price tag is realistic. And even then you can't see the goal line from most of the upper deck.

Sounds great. We should definitely put the club in a mountain of unsustainable debt just so we can keep the stadium that no-one actually seems to like.

Won't be able to build a stand as high as the Tynecastle main stand where the south stand currently is, so would be a smaller capacity stand for a start. Around 4,000 is what you could get there. Around 16,000 capacity rebuilt Pittodrie at a maximum is what you're looking at if redeveloping *on the current footprint*. Are you contesting that it won't cost too much? So you either live in a fantasy land where knocking down stands and building new ones is all cheap, or you live in a different fantasy land where Milne should just spend all his money on the stadium, and while he's at it give McInnes £20m so he can get us to the champions league etc etc. If you can't think of an alternative site, then how can you argue Aberdeen have the wrong one? It's also just ignorance to say "you're wrong but I don't have to explain why" which is basically what you're doing. If the club could build anywhere they liked, then they wouldn't be building it at Kingsford. They are because they have no other options. No details given about Dyce though was there? Like how much it cost, how much room there was, etc. The council also offered them Loirston then reneged and took land back off them. The land isn't available at Kings Links, and even so from an engineering point of view it would be very difficult to build on that land, due to the high sand content and being much closer to the sea. The pitch would be like a marsh most weeks. Loirston - I posted the photo a few pages back that shows how much land is now left. Not much. Really? Firstly, it's not a couple of hundred pound more to build on these places, it's millions more, which gets turned into a debt, and interest, and takes years to pay off. Aberdeen would struggle to run at a profit. Have you just forgotten what it was like having a huge debt for years? It wasn't that long ago. Secondly, you not think we'd need shuttle buses to Dyce and Loirston?

It's been passed safe to build near the pipelines. But the experts passing it isn't good enough, cos you know best. All the transport experts have given it the thumbs up. But the experts passing it isn't good enough, cos you know best. The police have given it the thumbs up. But.....you get the picture. Well, everyone else might, you won't.

Its not even close to being a good stadium never mind great. Aye, with a huge amount of money. And probably a smaller capacity. It has a capacity of 8,700. Kingsford will be 20,000. Laughable comparing the two. The Nations League games will likely be small crowds. If we draw Cyprus for example next month, and the game is a Wednesday night, then Easter Road or Tynecastle will be perfect for that rather than rattling around Hampden. Yes. The Nations League is replacing friendlies.

Why not? There's a big car park right at the shops. Also parking at ashdale, the school and community centre. They can't stop people from parking there even with a CPZ. It's 1.4 miles from Pittodrie to Aberdeen bus station. It's 1.1 miles from Kingsford to Kingswells park and ride. 1.5 miles if I walk a bit further and go have a pint in the four mile house. Yes, they will. Some will come back.

Well I quite clearly meant all the shuttle buses that will be sat waiting for fans at full-time. Surely you didn't need that explained to you? The police (who you're claiming haven't commented despite being consulted on it and who have submissions in the stadium application) say they'll have traffic management in place, where they can hold traffic and stagger it, empty the car park, let shuttle buses in and out, etc. There are lots and lots of roads within a 20 minute walk of Kingsford too. Within 20 minutes you would be in the centre of Westhill, or the arnhall car park 600 spaces there) and you could probably reach Kingswells P&R or at least the parking at Prime four by that time. Park in Westhill and you've three or four directions you can go. Me? I'll either drive 5 minutes to Bridge of Don park and ride and get the shuttle bus from there, or I'll park in Kingswells and once I'm at my car I'll be home in about 15 minutes. Any comparisons to Easter Road are irrelevant anyway as we're not moving to Edinburgh. The comparisons are with Pittodrie or any other site in Aberdeen or Aberdeenshire you have in mind for the stadium.

Labour have raised the idea of a light rail system linking the airport, Dyce train station, and the new AECC. Not entirely sure it's needed or justifies the cost.

Exactly. It's not about how busy it is five minutes after full-time, it's how long it takes to disperse that traffic, and the dual carriageway will be running back to normal far quicker than the roads around Pittodrie are after a game. The supporters bar will be there, the village hotel is a short walk, if Prime get their way and build a retail park there'll be loads of places there to stop. And that's before you mention the bars in Westhill and Kingswells. And, you never know, they may have re-introduced selling alcohol at the game by then, which would solve a lot of pre and post match drinking problems. You're acting like the whole of Aberdeen and the north-east can walk to Pittodrie. Most people drive or get a bus there too. Important to note that Transport Scotland, Roads Development Management and Police Scotland have all looked at the Kingsford plans and believe traffic will be fine. At Ibrox the other week, the police stopped all the traffic and allowed the entire away support (buses and cars) to drive past - even on the right hand side of the road - so they were all on the motorway within minutes. Likewise, at Pittodrie traffic gets stopped to allow away buses (Old Firm ones at least) to leave. At Kingsford, the police are likely to block the road and allow the shuttle buses and supporters buses to all exit the stadium car park, get on to the AWPR, and be away before all the cars. Technically two - Dyce has a train station.

It'll be far easier by road, even coming from the city. The problem might be parking if they enforce a CPZ but the roads out to Kingsford are a lot quicker than getting through the city to Pittodrie. They've made an arse of the bus strategy but I suspect it's because really the council and club need to sit down and work that out between them, and they can't just now because it's a live application. Once it's passed then they can actually talk about it. The likely solution is to increase the number of park and rides. They'll already have Kingswells, Dyce, Bridge of Don and Altens. If they can get a few more so there's buses coming from all over the city, and fans aren't having to go to the city centre first to get one, then it'll work okay.

Well they tried Loirston until the council fucked them over. They could still, in theory, build the training facilities at Kingsford and stadium at Loirston, but they reckon it'll cost an extra £7m and there's pretty much f**k all parking out there, and due to the lack of room Aberdeen could only squeeze in about 500 spaces.

According to the stadium application it's £1.1m Aberdeen are paying for the land at Kingsford. Current land at AECC is valued at between £15m-£24m, and is a lot smaller than Kingsford. Which answers the question "Why don't they build it where the AECC is",

Sure you could get an architect to answer the question "Could you build a new 20,000 capacity stadium on the current footprint" for much cheaper than 20k. If it was possible to purchase the main road off the council, then maybe it's doable. Hearts built a 6,500 main stand for £14m, so maybe ours costs the same, though their costs are spiralling and that's after cost cutting in the first place (no executuve boxes for a start). Hibs paid £6m for the east stand so maybe we pay the same for a new south stand (though would be smaller, probably around 4,000). Constructions costs have risen since then though. Merkland we could leave for a few years. Minimum £20m for two new stands (which is ambitious), plus £10m training ground, plus the cost of one year without the main stand and another year without the south. Maybe, just maybe, it costs us £35m and that's being very hopeful. And that is presuming the council allow us to build a significantly taller main stand than it is just now. Remember the RDS was to be at the Merkland side and was rejected because residents complained. Pretty sure an architect would rubbish all that anyway but, to re-iterate my point, it's dependent on a bigger footprint and the council actually giving the club some help. And I think it's likely once an architects goes through it you're looking at a more realistic 17,000 - 18,000 capacity.

Well the club believe the capacity would be around 12,000 - 14,000. An independent architect which the other poster alludes to actually said 12,600, and admitted if he made various alternations he might get it to 13,000. Where are the architects coming out and saying "that's bullocks, here's how you would get 20,000"? To build a 20,000 capacity stadium, the club need to increase the footprint. At the very least, they need to build on the main road behind the main stand. At worst, they need to completely knock down all four stands and start again, maybe purchase some of the road behind the RDS, maybe even turn the stadium 90 degrees. No-one is saying it's impossible - what we're saying is it would cost the sort of sums that are far outwith Aberdeen's reach, not because the chairman wants to make money off some flats, but because he doesn't want to liquidate the club.

It isn't according to me, it's what Aberdeen believe their debt/mortage will be. It's in the stadium application. You're suggesting Aberdeen should choose a more expensive project (which increases the debt - that isn't a party line, it's simple maths) and reduce their capability to pay off that debt. Well, we've found the village idiot there. Thanks for that input. A 20,000 capacity stadium? Go ahead, tell us how it can be done. And if your examples are Tynecastle and Easter Road then you need to think again, because modern building regulations won't allow it, and their height would block the light to the flats behind the Pittodrie.

You don't buy it, but then you don't seem to have any idea how it would be possible either. You want us to spend millions on a smaller stadium, reducing our capability of paying that debt off. That makes no financial sense at all. That isn't a counter argument at all. If you were saying that building a smaller stadium would save us money, then that would be a counter argument. I wouldn't agree with it but I could at least see where you're coming from. But putting ourselves into unmanageable debt isn't a counter argument, it's just more stupidity.

It's easy to say you don't believe something and suggest Milne is at it. But I didn't see a single alternative in your post.

What's your solution? If it's "just rebuild Pittodrie" then see above posts.

Loirston would have been ideal. It's just as far from the city centre as AECC. Yes we'd need shuttle buses but they'd be much shorter journeys, and there was always the possibility of re-opening Cove train station. Club say in their latest update in the application they don't have the room at Loirston anymore. From looking at it I think they can still build a stadium, but could only manage a few hundred parking spaces, and it would cost an extra £11m than having everything on one site in Kingsford on account the council don't appear to want to offer any help whatsoever. (AECC site another that could work but council aren't prepared to hand it over without a huge fee).

But you can't really compare the two. It's obvious to all that there is/was plenty of space behind the main stand at Tynecastle and that with a bit of help from the council and rebuilding the school it was doable. And, all Hearts had to do was build one stand, and had Murrayfield and Easter Road as back ups so didn't lose out on gate receipts. For Aberdeen, they need a bigger footprint for a start, so they need that main road behind the main stand, probably the first two flats at that side too. That sorts the main stand. If they could increase the capacity of that then they could reduce the south stand one and maybe keep it at around 20,000. Maybe they could get away with leaving the Merkland for a few years. That is still, at its cheapest, rebuilding two new stands and purchasing extra land. A conservative estimate of that would still be at least £25m. Not including the money needed to build the training ground which is the priority. And because we don't have another ground in Aberdeen to use, that project is probably two years, so two years playing at a reduced capacity and while the main stand is built it would likely mean European games elsewhere. Maybe its doable. Maybe that's the plan B should Kingsford fail. But the fact remains, more land is needed, a bigger footprint. People who photoshop pictures of Tynecastle onto Pittodrie and say "see, plenty of room" are ignorant of building regulations at best and, generally, idiots.

Yeh I agree the transport plan is shite, but only because like you say they're relying on just 100 buses and all coming the same busy route. I suspect the club know fine well the buses won't be full to capacity and therefore it's pointless getting more. We all know, and the club know, fans will go by car and park in Westhill. Because why would you take the bus to the city centre then get another bus home when the car will do it in a quarter of the time? Long term the only solution is more park and rides scattered around the city all heading straight to Kingsford.