Toby

I know your point, but it depends on your definition of "the right thing". Now we're under the same governing body, Morton or Dundee probably won't have the option. And if a club does fold and the next in line refuses promotion, there's one of three scenarios- an uneven top tier (which would be unfair on the clubs other than Hearts), a team that is further down the pecking order taking what they shouldn't be entitled to or a bottom heavy league preventing the chance of a non league team getting into the national set up. The problem last season being that the non league team chosen was the newly formed The Rangers, rather than Cove, Spartans or Huntly. There's probably no right or wrong from the point of view of a club that is in a situation like this unfortunately. Morton and Dundee, like every other club in the country, have a duty to the game as a whole. By not accepting promotion through the back door it could be argued they weren't fulfilling those committments. All fine and good to say the SPL never cared about us, but two wrongs don't necessarily make a right.

No, current SPL rules don't require that a team is relegated to the SFL. http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/Membership%20Criteria%202013-14.pdf Page 2 of this pdf file on the SPL website, which can be found under SPL Membership Criteria 2013/14 on their website, states on page two that; The requirement that the Candidate Club meets the Membership Criteria of the League is to be found in Rule A2.2. If the Candidate Club fails to meet the Membership Criteria of the League and is not granted a waiver, relaxation or a period of grace by the Board then it will not be promoted and will not be admitted entry to the League. In that circumstance the Club which would otherwise have been relegated will retain its place in the League. This is provided for in Rule A2.3.

That wasn't actually a dig at Falkirk believe it or not, more an observation that it's normally the team in the higher divison that I'd expect to benefit 9 times out of 10. In your own case in 2002 I'm undecided about what was right and what was wrong- if you finish 3rd in a 10 team league (and I know we've got play offs now) you should feel extremely forunate if you find yourself promoted. I see your point about the club that brings the "green stuff", but it might be best to hold back on that one unless it comes down to a decision between Morton and Dundee should Hearts be liquidated given that you appear to agree that Dundee should've gone up. If the SPL decide Dundee deserve the place, given I think we agree they're more financially beneficial to the rest of the SPL than Morton, by all means fill your boots. Regarding who should go up should the worst happen to Hearts, I'll go into that in more detail in my response to Cliche Guevara below; It was a quick Google search that took me to that article, and to be honest I'm absolutely bemused by it. It's not clearly the Rangers vote, as by that time Rangers had been told they couldn't re-start in the SPL. What it does seem to be is about a vote between SFL clubs on who replaced Rangers, but why the SFL would have that decision is beyond me. I should've been more careful reading that over before using it. My memory was that the SPL clubs took a vote on who "Club 12" would be, but according to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/dunfermline/9410103/Dunfermline-could-challenge-Dundees-right-to-be-in-Scottish-Premier-League.htmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/dunfermline/9410103/Dunfermline-could-challenge-Dundees-right-to-be-in-Scottish-Premier-League.html'> this article it would appear I was wrong and an invitation was made to Dundee on "sporting merit". Given that Dunfermline finished last season 7 points behind second bottom Hibs and Dundee 24 behind champions Ross County, I can only assume "sporting merit" has yet to be explained by the SPL. It suggest though that finishing 2nd in the 1st Division is seen as a greater achievement than bottom of the SPL, and given Morton were far closer to the top and finished with a greater points total, if Hearts were liquidated this would only point to Morton coming up, unless, as Gaz suggests, the club that is more valuable to the league is the one who is invited in, making a mockery of "sporting merit". I dare say the SPL could use the fact that Cappielow isn't up to scratch as their get out clause there, of course. If Hearts merely enter administration and are relegated as a result of a points deduction then it's a no brainer surely. Dundee would finish in 11th place and survive on the basis they didn't finish bottom. I'll take issue with your point that the team that finishes bottom of the SPL always has to be relegated though- this wasn't the case in either 1999 or 2003 as a result of firstly reconstruction and Falkirk's failure to meet stadium criteria and secondly Falkirk again not having a stadium in place. Hopefully administration is the worst to happen to Hearts, but it would be interesting to see how the SPL could use the "sporting merit" argument to keep Dundee in the league instead of promoting Morton given last year's events. As I've said before though, hopefully we are in the First Division next year. After 25 years (and counting...) out of the top flight, sack getting promotion because a couple of blokes in suits decide that's how it'll be. I'll take winning the league instead, no matter how many years that takes.

I don't mind them having a vote over it to be honest. There were no rules set in stone so it was probably the only thing they could've done without threat of legal action from Dumfermline (which I think came anyway). And bear in mind that when Airdrieonians folded in 2002, yourselves and Stenhousemuir survived instead of extra teams going up so that sort of thing isn't exclusive to the SPL. Regarding the vote, I'm not sure on the exact numbers but you can imagine on a straight vote between Dunfermline and Dundee it would've been a no brainer for the likes of St. Johnstone, Dundee United and Aberdeen.

Okay, my link is the Daily Record, but the link below should confirm for you that there was a vote. I take your point about being considered an SFL club, but in that case Dundee would be relegated then promoted should they, as I'd expect win the vote. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/dundee-to-avoid-vote-over-who-1166075

But if Hearts are liquidated it wouldn't go to a straight 2 up nobody down. It would be a vote between Morton and Dundee, like it was a vote between Dunfermline and Dundee last year. And we're a less attractive proposition to the majority of SPL clubs, meaning we'd lose the vote. Which, like GiGi, would suit me fine.

Knowing the guy who wrote the article and how meticulous he is, having gone to games with him for years before he got the job he's doing, I'd say yes, it must be true.

On this occasion yes, Rasta- but if you look at the quote above, which I've taken from the Martin Hardie thread, GazFFC appears to be pretty adamant about the differences in budgets between Morton and Falkirk. You, like myself are a shareholder at Cappielow and I'm assuming your knowledge of what Morton spend on wages is, like mine, based purely on guesswork. Quite why someone with no links to Morton is so knowledgeable on the subject is of interest to me and I'd like him to provide specific figures to back this up. For the record, after yesterday's results, Morton are sitting on 67 points and Falkirk on 49. Therefore, Morton have 136.73% of Falkirk's current points total and in the best case scenario for him by the end of the season it will end up with Morton having 121.82% of Falkirk's final points total. Now, if GazFFC could confirm that Morton's wage budget has been any more than 136.73% or 121.82% of Falkirk's wage budget, and provide reliable authority for his claims by way of specific figures from both clubs, I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

Gaz, I keep hearing this from you and asked you on the Martin Hardie thread to give me specific figures to back up you claims. Could you please give me these figures? I'm going on the assumption that you completely ignored it, but on the off chance that you conveniently just missed it, the question can be found http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/201007-martin-hardie-failed-mission-promotion-number-five/page-2#entry7265749'>here.

Nice to see we agree on something .

Course it was. And there i was thinking you deleted your post because it was absolutely ridiculous. Silly me.

Aye, owned by an absolute charlatan, cowshed shut off because it was rubble, watching that lot running away with the league, avoiding relegation because Clydebank and Airdrie were on their way to folding whilst it looked like we were going the same way..... Great days indeed, how I wish that was where we are now .

Fantastic feeling at Victoria Park tonight. Pleasing.

Must be a right bitch too see such diddies come away from Fortress Dens with maximum points this season .

Having spent years on here and the Morton board reading the tripe that Alibi posts, I wouldn't advise anyone wanting to learn anything about football to ask him anything.

Gamertag:EatenbetterthanVTforbreakfast@he'safud.co.uk :lol:

Of course it does . I mean, drawing attention to someone who clearly doesn't bother you in the slightest is a definite sign that you're totally unaffected. Complete, unadulterated bullshit. In the context of this particular debate, I'd suggest that exactly 3 months ago is ages. Jesus Christ WE were top of the league at the time!! Don't confuse "enjoy pointing and laughing at" with "are so concerned about". VikingTON's bitch.

Been saying that to him for ages but he obviously doesn't understand it makes him look like more of a tit than it does vikingTON. He'll tell you otherwise of course .

Great feeling at Dens tonight Fifespud ?

The last time we were top of the First Division was September 1996. In that time, the club's nearly folded and been down to the absolute depths. In the meanwhile, every similar sized club to ourselves have enjoyed the SPL and/or cup semis and finals whilst we've had fuck all. Finally we've got a bit of a team and are optimistic about the season ahead so a lot of folk are milking it. I'm sure we'll be reminded if it all goes tits up, but at the moment, it is a nice time. A few folk talking crap on a messageboard certainly hasn't ruined it for me, I'm loving it, thank's very much . Football fans are always going to milk success, moderate or not, and especially when they've not been used to it. You'd think it's an exclusive fault of the Morton fans to irritate folk when their team's going well.

Aye, same game. It was actually Windass that scored four in extra time after Billy Dodds had scored a hat trick in normal time. They were 2-0 up with about 15 mins to go before we scored 3 quick goals through Derek Lilley (2) and John Anderson. Dodds then tripped over a blade of grass and won a last minute penalty and the rest is history I'm afraid .

For Morton in competitive games... 2011-12 Livingston, Forfar, Ross County, Alloa, Stranraer. 2010-11 Stirling, Dunfermline, Partick, Dundee, Queen of the South, Falkirk, Cowdenbeath, Raith Rovers, Inverness, Airdrie United, Dumbarton, St. Johnstone. 2009-10 Ayr United, Celtic, Kilmarnock. 2008-09 Clyde, Peterhead, Hibernian, East Stirling. 2007-08 Hamilton, Gretna. 2006-07 Brechin, Motherwell, Annan. 2005-06 St. Mirren. 2004-05 Berwick, Arbroath. 2003-04 Stenhousemuir, East Fife, Dundee United. 2002-03 Elgin City, Albion Rovers, Montrose, Queen's Park. 2001-02 Clydebank, Airdrieonians. 1999-00 Rangers. 1996-97 Aberdeen. 1994-95 Meadowbank. 1987-88 Hearts. Rather than Stranraer, given that Morton have been down to the Third Division and had better cup runs, I'd argue we've probably played more of the league than any other club in the last 10 years.