cmontheloknow

You miss the point - you said Queen's Park were a 'much higher standard', not that they played at a higher standard. They have proved this year they have struggled with L1 football therefore their squad is not actually L1 standard and there is no guarantee that same squad if kept intact, will compete well in L2 should they be relegated.

How much do you know about Queen's Park and Pollok? I have seen both teams this season. I would hazard a guess you have not. Pollok's league average up to end of Jan was 701 (and including cup matches 556) but there's been 5 home league games since then, all vs Ayshire teams, and I don't have those figures to hand yet. It may have changed a bit but not much.

Do you think he'd have put much cash into them if they were still a Highland League side and any chance of promotion did not exist? Playing at a higher level attracts investment and Junior clubs are, for better or worse, businesses.

Edinburgh UNI.

North Caley are also the only league outwith Juniors that use refs not on the Senior list. I don't know whether that's simply geographic necessity or reflection of status. Not even Golspie always get Cats 4 and above.

As far as I know, the shifting of the boundary to above Montrose, is under consideration.

You'd hope the greater clarity would now come. The answers are out there though, or a workable solution to.

I don't think Senior cup entry qualification needs to change too much - as it stands, the winners of Level 6 leagues qualify (if not already holding Club Licence), just as the Junior winners and the Amateur Cup winners do, and there's also another route for clubs to qualify from L6 via the new South/East region Cup contested by the Alba Cup winners (from South) and the Alex jack Cup winners (from East). Tynecastle have qualified under this method for next season after they beat Mid Annandale at Oriam back in November - these latter cups are for the clubs who do not have automatic Scottish Cup entry but play in East or South. League format obviously up for discussion but does it have to change too much? Budge the current top flight in West up a level (with invites to other teams if South being demoted / superceded) and rebrand as WoSL. The junior leagues in new format below that, the South's place I guess to be decided / negotiated. The North's top division could go in at L6 asa effectively HFL D2, again with consideration of the role / place of the North Caley. The biggest headache is East but there's the greatest desire there for change so I'm sure it can be worked out. I think the Junior Cup can remain, and be even bigger than it is as a cup for all non-league teams. Presently it's a certainty the winner will be East or West. Throw in the strength of the Highland and the cup becomes a much greater prize. Fixture lists - we're moving towards that now, aren't we? Albeit slowly. Licencing criteria for advancement - you only need a licence for L5. That's in the manual. I can't see why it should change because of this? I'm not on a committee so don't know the exact level of briefing clubs got but I don't think whatever clarity is lacking is enough to make a club consider the jump to be akin to falling off a cliff. The only real point I have tried to make all thread is that the change is coming, in some way shape or form, but as with any change, those driving it get the results they want. Unwilling passivity here will not give the Juniors a strong hand. Imagine a rented house was being painted a new colour and tenants were informed. They might not want their house painted, but it's going to happen. They can choose the colour but they don't want the house painted unless the colour is the same as before. That's not an option, but they refuse to choose the colour. They get a house painted a shade they dislike and complain to the landlord about it.

Greenie for the work Afrojim but I feel any solution we get in the next 10 years is going to look a bit more like sticking plaster on a leaky wound than intricate keyhole surgery!

hahaha - I joined the Lok committee only to get a free run on the bus? Good one. Really dont get your (inaccurate) personalising of this issue. have I touched a raw nerve ?? My point re: Kello and Threave was agreed with by a South (Saints?) fan, I watch south football occasionally, the players that play for Kello quite often come from the South, it's not random ideas pulled out my arse.

Sorry - they say they meet the requirements and don't. Sincerest apologies if that message in any way offends. Filling in the form correctly I'd have thought would be important to this whole debate. And good on you for personalising it too.

Not sure East End and Banchory have read the Club Licencing manual - neither have the required cover (AFAIK).

IMO, the top end of the South are not top level of the West standard but they'd fit into the West Super First / upper end of the districts etc... I'm sure if Kello and say Threave swapped leagues this year they'd do a similar job, again IMO.

cheers Ross - totally misread you /o\

Rather than dishing out red dots, Ross let's hear your opinion... if you have one? You diagree with Clydebank's decision to leave the Juniors I take it?

I heard a team from North Region refused to vote as they felt it did not apply to them.

What is the purpose of competitive professional sport, Goudie? Why did it start and why does it continue? In almost every avenue of professional sport, clubs and invididuals want to compete at the highest level possible - sometimes that means facing a challenge and y'know, even being beaten. The pinnacle of competitive football in Scotland is the SPFL Premiership. It's where the highest wages are paid, where the best players play, where the biggest crowds pay good money to attend and where the best stadia are found. It cascades downwards from there, until you get towards the bottom of the national leagues and then it's just a big murky mess... teams that should have been relegated out years ago, teams that have well and truly outgrown their pond beneath that but unwilling and unable to escape. Financially, Junior competitions are worthless, extreme latter stages of Junior Cup excepted. Back to my orginal point about competitive professional sport. Junior clubs deny themselves access to revenue that could help sustain them OR help them go to the next level. It's a grade that collectively wishes its clubs to not get ideas above their station and wishes ill on those who dare (the cheek of it!) to look elsewhere for a means of growing their business. Knowing one's place is not really what professional sport is about - to me it is about challenging that notion, disproving it and overturning stacked odds. The Talbot position, voting against almost inevitable change because they feel it's above them, is that not a bit like Kello or Lugar running out in the "Best Big Team in Ayrshire Cup" at Beechwood and saying to each other, "let's keep it to 5 before half-time lads" - make a game of it, FFS.

I do wonder how many of the 'money is evil' brigade are quick to grumble about postponements and lost income in the winter months?

Cmon Glenafton93 rather than red-dotting me like a wean, how about a contrary argument?

I was on Lok committee from 03-09 and in my time there definitely was a survey carried out about interest in the pyramid as it was discussed at committee. Couldn't tell you when exactly but towards end of that period I'd say. This has been on the cards for over a decade. The SJFA refused to engage all the way along, and the members enabled them.

All I'd say is that if you don't drive the change you can't complain about it afterwards when it's not want you wanted. It's going to happen so be proactive, shape it. The Lowland League is what it is because the SJFA members allowed the officials to 'play ostrich' on the beach. A more proactive approach 10 years ago and we wouldn't be having these conversations now.

I had quoted that myself but it got lost in P&B's multi quote formatting. The big clubs need to drive change though, not be dragged kicking and screaming along for the ride. Inevitably they'll complain about the destination if they aren't the drivers.

Whitburn and the Superleagues comes to mind,

I have great admiration for Talbot and while Henry doesn't know me, I do remember speaking to him on times Lok were down there when I was on committee. They are the envy of most Junior clubs and could be so much more in the wider world of Scottish football. There is nothing to stop them becoming a Brechin, a Dumbarton etc - being a part-time team of full-timers and all the exposure (and revenue) that brings.

My avatar is John Bishop when he played for Southport. I moved to there from Glasgow when I was 10 and started watching them in the early 90s when he played for them. The only comedy then was onfield. Southport have yo-yoed up and down ever since, winning the Northern premier in '93, establishing themselves in the Conference, having a few good years at the top then ever since changing the manager at least once a year and going through cycles of promotion and relegation. They're too small to thrive in the full-time Conference but normally too big to not go back up - changed days though the money that's now in National North - Salford etc. I guess some fans there want to see them back in the Football League (won current L2 in 70s) but at what cost? But at least the avenue is there. Thaht's what a pyramid can bring, new money too. Annan's ground rebuild was (I believe) sponsor funded.