Shadow Play

Too be fair to Ludo he did say clubs that 'would still happily part with £200,000 in January window' when talking about a player comming to the end of his contract. Would United really be happy or willing to spend that amount of money on a player comming to the end of his contract rather than take a chance of getting him for nothing? £200,000 is a lot of money for United. Remember did they not cash in the famous GMS for just £50,000 more to a cup final rival rather than lose him for nothing.

If he goes for £500,00 whoever buys him will be getting a bargain. He's got bags of ability and is still young enough to improve still further. Look how quickly he made the step up from Cowdenbeath. I reckon if he was playing in the Championship down south he would settle in in no time. He really is that kind of player.

Ah OK. That makes more sense. Just a thought and I'd be happy to be corrected here but do you not think Dundee could do some more community club work? I know for a fact my son would love to go and see Dundee do a training session, especially during the school holidays, but they are all closed sessions. For United fans I believe it is possible to watch them train over at St Andrews, get autographs of players etc. United have the J League on Saturday mornings for the kids to play and train. Dundee don't have anything like that. Things like the above can only help to bring fans closer to the club.

Where I sit (Derry near to Shankly) there's one or two regulars that moan whenever Stewart tries a trick / turn that doesn't come off but they are few and far between. Worth bearing in mind they are the same ones that moan when others get rid of the ball too quickly and don't try to take their man on! Most where I sit give the team complete backing during play. I'm 100% behind Hartley and I can understand his frustration but if he did label all the support the same I think that's a bit unfair.

I'm guessing the reason you stayed away was you were worried by going on a Dundee thread you'd be known as a ....... ..FUNSTER!

Deeboy. I agree with you regarding his play today and so far this season. I was only meaning when he scored. Usually there is a wee wave to the crowd etc but not this week. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

Vincent had a very good game as well. Did the simple things and kept the ball moving. Very impressed with Yordi, particularly in the first half. Thought Stewart's body language after he scored was telling. No acknowledgment to the fans etc. The only hope is that he is still annoyed after the Peterhead incident but realistically it looks like he is off.

Fifespud. I fear you are wasting your time trying to reason with RG on this. Best to remember the old saying: "Never argue with a fool. He will only drag you down to his level, then he will beat you with his experience".

Given the apparent £250,000 clause, the person who comes out of this worse than anyone (including some of those who have posted!) is Hemming's agent. Surely there was a bigger club willing to take what is a small punt (in terms of English club finannces) on him.

Exactly that Deeboy. You'd have to assume that during the negotiations the board didn't initiate placing such a clause in his contract.

Would all United fans posting on this thread please be aware that if you continue to do so Granny Danger will undoubtedly find out and you all know how he reacts when fans of a team post on the another teams's thread - even when the purpose of such posts are merely to offer another point of view. You will forever be known to him as funsters'. Is it worth the risk?

Bit of logical thinking required. There is no point the board saying that they would rather keep Stewart for another year and lose him for nothing rather than accept a below value sale. If they have sold Hemmings for £250,000 I think we can all agree that is below his value, particularly given he has two years of his contract left. Seems certain there must have been a release clause as rumoured. Does not make sense otherwise. Oxford recently sold one of their strikers to Leeds United for £3m so on the face of it they certainly had the ability to pay more. As previously stated, a statement from the board is required ASAP.

Erm, the Premiership hasn't kicked off yet but given that your playing your football in the Championship this season I can see how you've made your mistake.

Very poor. I'm not accepting it is still 'pre-season'. Every other club has had to face the same problem, many with less resources. This will surely effect the crowd for the Forfar match. Will probably effect the sale of season tickets as well. Everything has a knock on effect. Too early to panic but disappointing all the same.

Thanks for taking the time to post details of the interview Ludo. Did you get the vibes that Hartley has already lost patience / confidence in Low? Was hearing the final straw with Harkins was that he returned from pre season overweight and has failed to get back down to the minimum weight and fitness Hartley was willing to accept. The suggestion was that all players are weighed etc before the start of the close season and are weighted upon their return. It's accepted they will return a little out of shape but not too much. All just 'bloke down the pub said' stuff but it would tie in with Hartley being big on his players being fit.

A guarantee to play all season like the second half on Saturday would sort out the sales I reckon. I wonder if season ticket sales have been held back a bit by the slow start to pre-season (including the League Cup) and some fans worrying what might happen if / when we sell Stewart and Hemmings?

I thought it was only Pep Guardiola that had done that.

Alex Ferguson* didn't do too badly out of a similar strategy whenever it was required but I take your point. * I'm not trying to liken Hartely to Ferguson

Nick Ross quoted in the Evening Telegraph saying that no one from the Dundee squad practiced penalties during summer training. Very surprised at that, given the reputation Hartley has for being extremely thorough. I appreciate taking penalties in training does not have the same tension as taking one in a meaningful match but like all walks of life, the more you practice the better you get. In any case should management not have at least some idea who is good / capable of taking a good penalty?

Stainrod was indeed a very good player. In fact he was so confident of his ability, rumour has it that he once told one Dundee player in particular that no one could 'fill his boots' Oh how wrong he was!

Ensure United don't finish above us. Job done!

And we may have been drawn against easier opponents

I'm positive there is no need to be negative at this stage of the season. One concern though - the result and performance today will not help encourage further sales of season tickets. Neither will the fact that already two of our home games are live on TV with a lunch time kickoff.

You've got to remember Income per capita is higher in Angus than it is in Dundee. Also, a lot of United fans will be excited about the prospect of seeing their team win a few games this season!

Good points, well made. For once in a very long, long time I have faith that the Dundee board (and Hartley) know what they are doing and will make the right choice. One way or the other there are difficult decisions to be made.