Shadow Play

Any idea how many days / weeks later the "FROM EUROPEAN NIGHTS TO RELEGATION FIGHTS" banner was displayed at Dens? Great night to to display their banner. Added to the ocassion I thought.

There's still plenty of United fans claiming they boycotted the match because they were protesting in an attempt to get rid of their board and chairman! Nothing to do with abandoning their team in their hour of need! Anyone know how their getting along with their protests against the board and chairman? All seems to have gone a bit quiet on that front.

I thought the atmosphere on Saturday was the best it's been for a while. Great to see the fans in hospitality adding to the singing.

Me too. Now how do I delete all my old posts saying it was time for him to go?!!!!!! Absolutely delighted Hartley appears to be turning things around. I think he has realised we don't seem to have the players who can play the way he wants and he has clearly adopted the long ball game. Nothing wrong with that, especially when you have Haber's ability to win and control the ball. Will there be space in the team for El Bak and Wighton to both play along side Haber? I certainly hope Hartley can work out a way of doing just that.

Didn't go through to Hamilton but did stay until the bitter end at the Thistle match. For what it's worth O'Dea did look like he cared. Have to say I thought his overall play looked like he cared as well. Some determined tackles and he tried to push forward when he could. He just needs to work on his final pass!

From my own point of view I was on your thread genuinely suggesting you needed to get rid of McNamara and Thompson etc and was shot down by two of your regular posters suggesting I must be obsessed by United to be posting on your thread. So given that your posts are simply, well I'm not quite sure how to describe them, you surely wouldn't expect anything else would you?

Please don't, although I notice your also talking about Dundee in the Accies / Dundee thread as well. Please reassure me that your not obsessing about Dundee in your own club's thread as well?

His signings, his team, his tactics. Hartley has to go now. The team is devoid of ideas. At the question and answer session an fan suggested to him that we pass the ball about too much in areas that don't matter and are slow to make meaningful, forward passes (which eventually result in the long punt up the park). Hartley shot the man down and was adamant that wasn't the case and that we are quick with our passing and decisive. I'm afraid that confidence now looks nothing more than arrogance. His signings appear all over the place. Even with everyone fully fit I still don't think there will be a balanced team. Tonight we had the gallows humour when large numbers of fans were shouting 'shoot' whenever any Dundee player (including Bain) got the ball. Hartley has lost the fans and more importantly he has lost the team. I'm afraid it's time to go. Give the new manager as much time as possible to assess the team with a view to doing something in the January transfer window.

Valid point, well made.

We do have a poor squad. Too many similar type players. Most importantly of all most of the new recruits are not any better than what we already have and in some cases they are worse. There is no real problem having lots of similar type players if you have every position covered but we simply don't have that luxury. We don't appear to have a creative midfielder or a suitable striker. I know there has been an attempt to rectify the striker situation but the new signing was presumably available at the start of the season and presumably Hartley wasn't interested. Add to the fact we have no suitable cover for Bain and it looks to me that whatever the budget was it has not been spent wisely. I very much hope I'm proved wrong by the way!

Let's all be honest here. Hartley's more recent signings have simply been nowhere near good enough. WILLIAMS AND VINCENT Hartley clearly thought Williams and Vincent were both good enough for pre-contract agreements. No last minute panic buys. Both are truly horrendous at getting past a man and neither appear capable of any sort of forward thinking in their passing. I was led to believe that when at ICT Williams was at least a fast runner with the ball at his feet. If he was, then I've yet to see it. GOMIS Switches off far too often. Clearly has the ability but if he doesn't waken up he will repeatedly cost us simple goals. YORDI A gamble that increasingly doesn't look like it's going to pay off. To be fair to him too much is being expected of him. Nowhere near ready for a lengthy first team run but who else would take his place? Loy (another Hartley signing) has little pace, interest or aggression in his play and he does not appear intelligent enough to make the necessary runs / passes. DUFFY He may have come through the Celtic youth system but there is no way he will ever be a regular in their first team. El Bak is the only signing I have confidence in comming good and it's not like he was a find by Harley. I'm now beginning to believe the rumour that Harkins was punted for openly criticising Harley's signings! Add into the above that the team played today like they have never trained together and I have to say at the very least time is running out for Hartley.

These are two players Hartley would appear to have wanted badly, so much so he had them both tied up on a pre-contract. Neither appear to have fitted in and neither look like they add anything to the squad, let alone the first team.

Name the three so that we can replace them with Low, Williams and Loy

Reported to Granny Danger for posting on another club's thread. Please advise him you are now officially a 'funster'.

Throw ins today were very poor in my opinion. Far too often, no matter where they were taken, the ball ended up back with a defender or Bain. Seriously lacking players wanting to get onto the ball and drive forward. All too often there were numerous passes across the back / midfield only for the move to finish with a long ball up the park. Seeing as there was only El Back and Yordi up front it was too easy for Hearts to deal with. Dundee's passing success % must be pretty high. Only problem being very few of the passes were meaningful. Hartley saying he was impressed with Dundee's delivery at set pieces. Sorry can't agree with that. Yordi needs a goal now. Had two great chances, one with a shot and one with a header but didn't make the most of either. He was looking better today though against a pretty physical defence. Rant over. Not getting too down hearted yet. We all knew after the Inverness game there was a good chance we would be bottom of the table today due to the last two rounds of fixtures. Next few games will be vital though.

Yordi was always going to be a gamble and it's looking like it might not pay off. Desperately need more options up front.

There can't be too many tickets left. I was told yesterday that all lower section seats have sold out and that there are only a few rows of seats behind this area that are left.

Totally agree with you Dundee-FC92 about Low. Even I can float crosses and free kicks into the box! The real skill is putting them in accurately at pace. I don't think the midfield can have both Low and McGowan in it and I would definitely prefer to have McGowan in. Hately would be an improvement over Low.

First sentence in particular looks like a dig at Hartley's tactics and / or preparation for the match. I've thought for a while now that Bain doesn't seem quite as happy or confident as he did last season. Not sure if it's disappointment over not getting picked for the Scotland team or he has seen Stewart and Hemmings getting big money moves and fancies that himself. Hope I'm wrong!

If SRW is looking for entertainment, what about appointing Mixu? I found him very entertaining and amusing when he was at Tannadice!

Hartley out? Definitely not. It's not as if he doesn't know where we need to strengthen the team. Early days of course but Hately looks like he will be a very good signing. Gomis looks like he will do a good job. El Bak will get better as the season progresses. Hartley has already stated he needs a striker. I'm only guessing of course but I think he realises that Loy's ability is very limited. He can't take control of a long ball pass to him. He rarely, if ever, wins a header with these types of passes and if the ball lands to his feet, his second touch is usually tackle. While I'm moaning: Ross try taking a shot when your in the box! Don't pass it to a player who is 2 feet away from you and marked just like you are!

Thanks for the update about the Derby. Good to see the wee team's wee team getting beat! Anyone have any idea why Dundee play their home Development League matches away from Dens (Montrose I think)? With 6pm kick offs it means most folk have no chance of making the games. Maybe I'm just sad with nothing to do on a Tuesday night but with a little more publicity and if the next Development Derby was held at Dens I reckon you would get a quite a few fans interested in going along.

Don't forget major turning points as being a factor in your relegation Mishtergrolsch. Step forward McPake with his last second leveller! By poor management I take it you are very much including your Chairman (who is still in the same role - just no longer taking his £100,000 salary). I remember him announcing shortly after Beautiful Monday that he was actively looking to sell the club. Any developments there?

Too much negativity about the lack of a further signing during the transfer window, although I also worry about lack of a good striker. I'd rather we kept the cash than spend on a player that Hartley does not have faith in. Remember, Nicky Low comming back from injury will be like a new signing.............I'm just not sure whether he will be like a good new signing or a bad new signing!

Just noticed that British Olympians have won 44 medals so far. In his Evening Telegraph column on 10th August Liam Kennedy said "they'll be lucky to get 35". So at least it's not just footballing matters he gets wrong!