Marten

As much as I dislike Feyenoord, their ground and atmosphere are better than at Ajax generally.

I think it makes sense for EOS to accept all these teams. I think quantity is going to bring quality in the end. They will now have the chance, after an intermediate season now, to split in 2 divisions and have the best teams together. The standard in the new EOS Premier from 2019 is going to be a fair bit higher than in the EOS this season (barring Kelty & LTHV). The poorer clubs can play each other in EOS Div 1. Sounds to me like the best for all sides, the bigger and the smaller ones.

I'm just back home. That was a great day out. I got there well before kick off and went to the social club for a drink, where I also spoke to some people. All really friendly people there imo. There was a great attendance and atmosphere. The game was tense, but the best team won. Congratulations Kelty and good luck against Threave.

This discussion shows exactly what annoys me about the attitude of some people/clubs. I love football. As some of you know, I moved to Scotland last summer and since then I haven't really had a particular favourite club here but just enjoy watching football and visiting different grounds. I watch football at all levels, from SPL to juniors or amateurs. I love it all, but I love lower levels/non-league most. I enjoy going to juniors, been at a game last Wednesday again. Ultimately, I think a proper pyramid is the best for all, so that the best non-league clubs play each other whilst lower clubs won't notice much difference and just keep playing football at their level. Some of the arguments against the pyramid are laughable. The vast majority of junior teams are of a level that they will never have to worry about getting into the SPFL or even LL. As said, they can just keep enjoying their football at their level. I heard a lot of similar arguments against a pyramid in England and The Netherlands. In neither country those fears were justified and in England it became accepted, whilst in The Netherlands (where the changes are more recent) people are warming to it. As long as a proper pyramid system is not in place, each club needs to do what they think is best for themselves. And the thing that really gets me is the vile attacks or crazy accusations thrown at clubs who simply want to do what's they think best for them. Just let them go on with their business and you just go on with yours. This rubbish about a “grade” that needs to be protected is simply not a valid argument. If clubs that are unhappy destroy the grade, maybe you’ll need to have a long and hard look at the grade and organisation rather than blaming the clubs who see their futures elsewhere. I respect their choices, wish these clubs well and they definitely don’t deserve to be shot down for it. It does work both ways though. If a club decides that applying for a license is not needed for them or they don’t feel the need to move up, that’s fair enough as well. I might not agree with their arguments, but they have every right to make that decision for themselves. As long as you don’t try to stop / criticise the ones who think differently, fair play and good luck to you. Some pro-pyramid people do need to see that as well, but the vast majority of them on here do see that thankfully.

Good, I'm not the only one who hates that!

I support the pyramid and have criticised the SJFA & some clubs/people involved in junior football. Am I also not allowed to go to Thomson Park anymore? Lochee Utd are my closest football team & I actually have a soft spot for them...

Pure comedy...

That would be the most logical thing to do indeed, so it will likely not happen.

Don't forget that 3 East Superleague teams are leaving. So if they don't change anything to promotion/relegation, the division will be down to 13.

Why the obsession with Blackburn United not being Superleague? Who cares if they are Superleague, East Region South Division, Lothians & Edinburgh Division 5 or whatever? It's still the same, they are not in the pyramid and have every right to apply to join it if they wish. They need to do what they think is best for the future and if that's an EOS application, then fair play and good luck to them. Only if the Juniors actually join the pyramid, you can tell them to first go through more divisions. Now there aren't any other divisions in the pyramid below the EOS for them to go through.

You are funny. Get real and face the fact that the SJFA have no case...

Fully agreed with that. If clubs don't want to leave their division, whatever name it might have and whatever their reason, they shouldn't be forced to get promoted. But the first eligible team in that division should still get the chance. I referred to the Dutch pyramid situation before as I have experienced the saga to get that into place. The problem there is that there are a number of teams in the semi-professional 3rd tier that don't want to get promoted and rather stay "non-league", even though they are more professional than quite a few of the professional 2nd tier teams. Because only the champion can get promoted and they are always turning it down, a "glass ceiling" has been created for the ambitious teams in that division. That's defnitely a thing that should be prevented in Scotland. A simple rule of the first eligible team getting promoted should do the job.

I can already imagine the hearing. CAS: “What is the issue here?” SJFA: “We can’t join the pyramid at level 6 in the East of Scotland” CAS: “I see, is there already a structure in place on level 6 in the East of Scotland?” SJFA: “Yes” CAS: “Were you given the chance to join the structure previously?” SJFA: “Yes, in 2013 we were offered the chance to join the structure from level 5 down starting in 2014” CAS: “What did you do with that chance?” SJFA: “We ignored it” CAS: “Did you engage in any talks?” SJFA: “No” CAS: …

I will, thanks. Looking forward to Saturday. Should be a great one to experience!

Either way, it would make sense for you to be in the same area as Lochee United and the other teams around here I guess, regardless which side of the line all are. The Tayside teams being on different sides of the HL/LL divide would not make much sense as they'd miss out on some local games and instead get some fairly long trips.

IMO, it would make sense to include all of Perthshire in the HL area. Especially as most of it already is and Dundee & Angus are HL area. If leagues are being redrawn according to those boundaries (which eventually will be needed if a full pyramid does happen), Jeanfield Swifts would much rather play Lochee United etc. than teams around Edinburgh I imagine!

This is the boundary, everything north of it, is HL catchment area. Everything south of it, is LL.

They are north of the line, so HL catchment area.

The middle of the Tay Road Bridge is the boundary and the boundary runs in a straight line on that latitude from there. Jeanfield Swifts are just south of that line, while clubs like Lochee United are just north of it.

As said, I support a more drastic promotion/relegation, but why won't that happen? I can understand the limited promotion/relegation now as there are simply not a lot of clubs in the pyramid and there are some big differences in standards. If the SJFA finally do agree with their clubs/leagues being included in the pyramid, there will be discussions/negotiations of how it will actually happen. They could easily argue that there has to be a more drastic promotion/relegation to get the best 16 teams in the LL into the LL. That will be in everyone's interest after all. Nobody want to see regular double figure drubbings like Kelty in the EOS this season for many years to come. With a decent negotiation, I'm sure there will be some solution that it doesn't take too long for clubs to find their natural level whilst being fair to the clubs currently in the pyramid. But for that to happen, the SJFA need to seriously engage first...

It's a bit ironic how pyramid opponents from the juniors complain about the standard in the LL. When the LL got established, junior teams got invited. It would have been ideal if the top 4 from EOS/SOS/East Juniors/West Juniors all joined. After a few years of promotion/relegation the division would simply contain the 16 best non-league teams in the LL area. You decided not to join and have given up the right to enter at tier 5. Then also don't complain about the current standard. If a proper pyramid with a good promotion/relegation system involving junior clubs finally happens, then the teams that are good enough will join the LL soon enough, it's as simple as that.

I agree with you on that one. I fully support the pyramid, but it's important to have a higher number of promotion/relegation spots in order to get teams to find their natural level within a few years. I'm from The Netherlands originally and the Dutch system moved to more of a pyramid in recent years. There used to be 2 separate non-league pyramids below the professional leagues: one for Saturday afternoon football and one for Sunday afternoon football. Both sections had 3 regional top divisions, the 6 divisions differed greatly in level. The split was mainly a religious one, with the strict Protestant part of the country refusing to play on Sunday and the Catholic part of the country preferring Sunday. There were previous attempts to a joint pyramid, but the Saturday section refused it. In the last decade it finally got off the ground and in recent years there has been a joint national top non-league tier. In the new top 2 tiers of non-league there are been 4 relegation places (with one of them through play-offs). This means that now, just a few years later, these tiers got more balanced in level with the teams from the weaker divisions when there was a split of 6 "top levels" in non-league being back on their natural level. In Scotland that probably would be the best way forward as well, 4 relegation places from LL (maybe 3 automatic and 1 PO), champion EOS / WOS automatic promotion together with the winner of a PO between the 2 runners up and then one more spot to be decided in a LL/EOS/WOS PO. A similar structure can then be in place from EOS/WOS to the legues below them. (Having said that, that's about the only thing we should copy from the Dutch system. Because, compared to over there, the process in Scotland is going smooth and easy.)

Yeah, how dare these clubs try to improve themselves and do what they think is best for their future?

Same with them in Scotland as south of the border then... I remember reading a negative article about the facilities of a local 9th tier club near where I lived at the time (Derby). For a tiny club with an average attendance of around 100 the facilities there are quite decent. You can hardly expect a Conference standard ground... I'm planning to go on Saturday. Haven't been to Kelty yet, so it will be another new ground for me. Looking forward to it. Are there any decent bars near the ground for a pre-match drink?

If you win the Scottish Cup next season and then go through the qualifying rounds for the Europa League to reach the group stage, you will need 8,000 seats, 500 VIP seats, a large press stand with modern facilities and a VIP area of 400 square meters (amongst other things). You might struggle with that, unless you extend the main terrace at the long end of the pitch into the sea.