Dev
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Posts posted by Dev
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20 minutes ago, Baxter's Nutmeg said:
The rule doesn’t exist! The 12 month period refers to moving region.
Wouldn't you just fancy your chances in a game of Poker with TJ & Co!
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7 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
Hearing Armadale are considering a late bid.
I hope so!
Armadale has a Senior history and I seem to remember that, not so long ago, the Junior club was awarded funds by the local council to carry out works.
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22 minutes ago, HTG said:
I don't see any reason why the west couldn't either transition their 4 division structure next season straight across or, if there is a need to embed other teams, run a seeded tier 6 the same as the east are about to do with the finishing positions in each of those tier 6 parallel leagues determining tier 6, 7, 8 etc. With potential to flatten out from tier 7.
Well, at least, the new Lowland League Chairman has shown that he is interested to see a WoS League formed.
He appeared to have tried to get things moving earlier in last season. Perhaps that experience will help him to compromise (if needs be) with the West Region Juniors?
I suspect that it may be better if those clubs which seem to be against the pyramid idea could be left as Juniors. They would always have the option to step up to the pyramid in future, if they wished. No point in including clubs against their wishes.
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I have extracted part of a post from a report on the recent Lowland League AGM. There are a few interesting bits which I thought may be relevant to a WoS Senior League, who knows? The new Chairman of the Lowland League is George Fraser who is also the Chairman of BSC Glasgow. He/this club reputedly made contact with some clubs last season (2017/18) about the potential formation of a new league - The West of Scotland Senior League!
P&B: Lowland League AGM Up-Date. Posted May 29.
................. We were delighted to welcome new SFA Chief Executive Ian Maxwell and SFA Vice President Rod Petrie who provided SLFL members with an update on ongoing work within the Scottish football pyramid, changes within the SFA as an organisation, the Professional Game Board and the format of the Scottish Cup. ...............
Elections to the board of the Lowland League were also conducted ........................ The election returned George Fraser as Chairman, Dave McKenna of East Kilbride will serve as Vice Chairman while Tom Brown (Civil Service Strollers), Findlay Murray (The Spartans), and Andrew Waddell (Edinburgh University) will also sit on the board alongside its existing members.
................... Everyone involved with the league is looking forward to exciting developments in the future and we will hopefully be able to bring you news soon.
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19 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:
Don't think the boundary necessarily needs to be moved, all they really need to do is give clubs that are in easy walking distance of the boundary line and can be viewed as catering to a catchment area that straddles the line a choice based on local circumstances.
That would be a common sense thing to do.
However, is it correct that the north-south dividing line only applies to SPFL clubs in the event of their relegation to the Highland or Lowland leagues? Not applicable therefore to lower clubs?
Whichever the case may be surely the clubs located south of the North Juniors' area and above the dividing line should be asked what they want? It would only take a couple of weeks to do that. Simples!
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1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:
Good to hear! But while you're unlicensed, you're as much an SFA member as Pollok - registered. Only difference is we're an affiliated association and you're an affiliated league (which has moved into the pyramid).
Point remains though - EoS/SoS clubs are not obliged to get a license - fair enough. But I don't see the need to remove the Junior places while that remains.
That's right. Clubs are either Full Members of the SFA or Registered Members.
However, it appears that the League or Affiliated Association to which a club affiliates does make a significant difference. The difference being the Rules and Regulations inside the pyramid compared with outside the pyramid. If a league is within the pyramid then the league has to comply as do clubs within that league. hence the West of Scotland League (whenever it materialises) will have to conform to pyramid rules and regs.
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1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:
Will you be kicking the Scottish AFA Cup winners out too? And what about the EoS and SoS clubs not (seemingly?) interested in getting licensed (such as Eyemouth?). If Eyemouth were to win the EoS or the East/South Shield, they'd be getting a cup place. You're only in the pyramid by quirk of fate and have to do absoluetely nothing that requires engagement with the pyramid beyond doing what you always have!
By being a member of a league which is part of the pyramid a club becomes a part of the pyramid.
There is no requirement, yet, at Tier6 for clubs to be Licenced. This appears to be a common misunderstanding.
In any case all of the non-licenced clubs in the 2017/18 EoS have been carrying out improvement/up-grades on and off pitch so they have improved their possibilities for becoming Licenced in future. Examples:
LTHV: Now has cover at the ground.
Tynecastle: Next season playing at a ground which most clubs would give their eye teeth for.
Heriott-Watt Uni: New Covered seated stands.
Ormiston: New ground.
Eyemouth United: Improvements to their ground.
Peebles Rovers: Getting their ground enclosed.
Tweedmouth Rangers : Playing at Berwick Rangers' ground next season.
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9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:
There was also Tom Thornton the Haddington guy on twitter who may or may not have been Old Northerner on here saying he was told they had got their licence OK when he went to one of their games just before the end of the season.
https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/club-licensing/
As at the last Licencing up-date, 10th May 2018, there were no clubs showing as newly licenced.
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17 minutes ago, lowenan said:
From the EOSFL website:
Membership ApplicationsThe deadline date having now passed the East of Scotland Football League can confirm that a further thirteen clubs have applied to join with effect from Season 2018/2019. Provided that all applicants are accepted and all follow through with their applications we will have thirty nine clubs in membership and in that event the Board of the League will be recommending a three conference structure with thirteen clubs in each based on Season 2017/2018 finishing positions. In addition the League Cup will be seeded such that clubs will meet opponents from the other conferences.So maybe space for say 3 late, late, applications to make up a neat 14 teams per conference?
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Judging by the Fauldhouse Junior Thread it seems that they haven't applied. The story line swallowed being along the lines that some the clubs which have applied will not be accepted!!!!
This will be shown for what it is once the EoS has had its' AGM next week. Perhaps we shall see another wave of Late Applicants soon after the AGM?
Kelty applied late last year, and weren't the only club to gain entry to the EoS in this way over the years. This could be the finish of the East Region Juniors. One story line too many?
They never seem to learn.
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4 minutes ago, Jamesw said:
38 teams?
12 EOS and hawick makes 13
23 ersjfa teams and dunipace and swifts is 25
Bonnyrigg. Lithgae. Penicuik. Bluebell. Broxburn. HoB. Bo’ness. Camelon. Nitten. Sauchie. Jeanfield. Mussie. Haddington. Blackburn. Tranent. Dunbar. St Andrews. Arniston. Dalkeith. Edinburgh. Crossgates. Craigroyston. Easthouses.
I thought that someone mentioned that Oakley United had applied? If so then 24 ERSJFA clubs applied up to now plus any which might have kept under the radar so far. Total 39.
Maybe the "missing one" is one of Thornton Hibs or Kennoway Star Hearts?
I have a hunch that Armadale will surprise us. Nothing to back that up whatsoever!
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2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:
How many clubs were in the east juniors?
How many have declared an interest in leaving/have left?
2 hours ago, aberfeldy said:Can someone give an updated list of what teams are now remaining Junior in the East. I stand to win a big bet from my old man. I told him a year ago, Lochore Welfare would be in the Super League within 5 years. The way things are going, it’s looking good for my prediction
Apologies for the errors on the previous version!!
SJFA Questionnaire Vote: East Region: 70% FOR the Pyramid (42 out of 60)
Clubs FOR East Super Lg 16 75% 75% (12/16) East Prem Lg 16 68% 68% (11/16) East Div. 1 South 14 57% 57% (8/14) East Div. 1 North 14 78% 78% (11/14) Accepted 17 Applied/Applying 4 Thought to be considering their future North of Tay Bridge Clubs Super League Premier Div.1 South Div.1 North Bo'ness United Arniston Rangers Armadale Thistle Arbroath Vics Bonnyrigg Rose Bathgate Thistle Craigroyston Blairgowrie Broughty Athletic Blackburn United Crossgates Primrose Brechin Vics Broxburn Athletic Dalkeith Thistle Easthouses Lily MW Coupar Angus Camelon Juniors Downfield Edinburgh United Dundee East Craigie Carnoustie Panmure Dunbar United Harthill Royal Dundee North End Dundonald Bluebell Fauldhouse United Kirkcaldy YM Dundee Violet Forfar West End Glenrothes Livingston United Forfar Albion Hill of Beath Hawthorn Haddington Athletic Lochgelly Albert Kinnoull Jeanfield Swifts Kirriemuir Thistle Oakley United Lochee Harp Kennoway Star Hearts Musselburgh Athletic Pumpherston Juniors Lochore Welfare Linlithgow Rose St Andrews United Rosyth Luncarty Lochee United Tayport Stoneyburn Juniors Newburgh Newtongrange Star Thornton Hibs West Calder United Scone Thistle Penicuik Athletic Tranent Juniors Sauchie Juniors Whitburn Juniors 8 7 4 0 Plus: Dunipace Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts 0 -
55 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:
How many clubs were in the east juniors?
How many have declared an interest in leaving/have left?
41 minutes ago, aberfeldy said:Can someone give an updated list of what teams are now remaining Junior in the East. I stand to win a big bet from my old man. I told him a year ago, Lochore Welfare would be in the Super League within 5 years. The way things are going, it’s looking good for my prediction
SJFA Questionnaire Vote: East Region: 70% FOR the Pyramid (42 out of 60) Clubs FOR East Super Lg 16 75% 75% (12/16) East Prem Lg 16 68% 68% (11/16) East Div. 1 South 14 57% 57% (8/14) East Div. 1 North 14 78% 78% (11/14) Accepted Applied/Applying Thought to be considering their future North of Tay Bridge Clubs Super League Premier Div.1 South Div.1 North Penicuik Athletic Musselburgh Athletic Pumpherston Juniors Dundee North End Bonnyrigg Rose Haddington Athletic Edinburgh United Dundee Violet Broxburn Athletic St Andrews United West Calder United Kinnoull Dundonald Bluebell Dunbar United Oakley United Scone Thistle Linlithgow Rose Tayport Crossgates Primrose Luncarty Lochee United Fauldhouse United Armadale Thistle Blairgowrie Broughty Athletic Blackburn United Craigroyston Lochee Harp Camelon Juniors Tranent Juniors Harthill Royal Dundee East Craigie Sauchie Juniors Bathgate Thistle Rosyth Arbroath Vics Hill of Beath Hawthorn Thornton Hibs Lochgelly Albert Brechin Vics Newtongrange Star Glenrothes Easthouses Lily MW Lochore Welfare Bo'ness United Dalkeith Thistle Livingston United Coupar Angus Carnoustie Panmure Arniston Rangers Stoneyburn Juniors Newburgh Jeanfield Swifts Downfield Kirkcaldy YM Forfar Albion Kennoway Star Hearts Whitburn Juniors Forfar West End Kirriemuir Thistle 8 7 4 Plus: Dunipace Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts 1 -
19 minutes ago, GordonS said:
The only requirement for membership of the SLFL is that the club is a full, licensed member of the SFA by the end of the season. The only territorial requirement in the rules relates to the north-south line for clubs being relegated from the SPFL. If Tweedmouth (or any other EoS or SoS club) won the promotion play-off, the SLFL would have to take them.
Also, if a team gets promoted from the SLFL but no team relegated to them then the vacancy is filled by application - the 16th club is entitled to apply, but only on an equal basis with other applicants.
http://slfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Scottish-Lowland-Football-League-Rules-Version-8.pdf
Yes. Perfectly on the spot.
It's time for the East Region Juniors which are north of the Tay Bridge to force this issue so that they know where they stand for the future, and can make plans.
If they choose to move to the EoS then they can then bring about change from the inside of Senior League football - with the strength of the EoS behind them on the Pyramid Working Group. Use it! Waiting around won't help as the SJFA/ERSJFA haven't lifted a finger to deal with the issue in the past - so why should they bother now?
Don't forget that the PWG plan was, originally, to see one combined league in the east. Now it's time has come. Be brave and force the issue.
Apply before the deadline. In the unlikely event of rejection that would really put you in an even stronger position to create a stink.
It's about making things happen, not wishing and hoping that there is any-one else out there is sufficiently bothered to lift a finger to help.
Best of luck.
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10 hours ago, GordonS said:
The north-south line is written into the SPFL rules - but it's only there for the purposes of where a club goes if it finishes bottom and loses the play-off. Those north would go to the HL, those south would go to the LL. As far as I'm aware nobody else is compelled to use it - though the LL and the HL might have a problem with the SPFL if they messed around with it.
There's no boundary for the EoS or, I think, the SoS.
Yes, Gordon, I believe that you are making a valid point. The East Region Juniors which are north of the Tay Bridge should be allowed the choice, on a club by club basis about which part of the pyramid they play in - if they wish to enter the pyramid in the first place. Simples.
They are not established SPFL clubs with larger budgets. It would allow them to live within their means. Why force such clubs into something which could hold them back long term, compared to those which lie to the south? There's just no need for it. The clubs wishes should be what determines what they do as they have to deal with the every day consequences.
By all means tell established relegated SPFL clubs to go north but then why would the existing Highland Leaguers want to be forced to play outwith their region?
It would be simpler to let clubs choose and go along with that.
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9 hours ago, jc1 said:10 hours ago, G4Mac said:JC you haven't told everyone why you hold such an opinion though, I guess that is why the question was asked.
For example, have you took the time to look into what the eosfl offers over and above that which the lower league junior teams receive right now from the sjfa? Have you considered that without new challenges and change some of the clubs you speak of may cease to exist in a few years? Have you given regard to having an under 20s development league to develop new talent from and the new players entering a club because of this? Have you considered that in moving to the eosfl these so called mediocre clubs may infact attract a calibre of player they would never have been able to attract otherwise?
Holding an opinion is fine, and you are entitled to yours certainly, however I would suggest looking into what is on offer for the clubs (not on the park teams) who are joining the eosfl. This would tell anyone who looked that there are prospects/potential to progress off the park, which would not be possible by remaining junior (whole club progression - not just on park 1st team success).
That isn't my opinion though, in analysing what the pros are for remaining junior and the pros for joining the eosfl - if I were a club, at any level in the Juniors, I would move, everytime. The heart can't rule the head with these things (from someone who played junior for his entire adult career), the logical decision with what's on offer (longer term) by joining the pyramid far outweighs anything the sjfa can offer a club. If you take both associations, for what they have written down in black and white, in their constitution, processes and regulations, it really appears a straight forward decision. Logically.At no point did I call any club mediocre!!! All what you have said is great BUT where does the funding come from to do ground improvements and run u20 sides ECT? There is a pot for EoS I understand but when that pot needs to be shared out to another say 30 clubs then each club receives or potentially receives a great deal less than they were surviving on so these teams leaving for the promise of a pot of gold and stability to survive are being lead up a garden path imo
This whole change in the East has come as a huge shock to many East Region Junior clubs, managers, players and supporters but, at the end of the day it is what it is. There comes a tipping point when it is time to move with the flow and to try to take advantage of what the new situation offers. At the end of the day that will be what each club makes of it.
If a club like Fauldhouse moves to the EoS it would be with a squad which is "on the up" and the club would be, straight away, one season from promotion to the Lowland League or from winning a place in a truly strong Eastern Super League. If a club chooses to hang on in the East Region or, even, to try its' luck in the West Region, what will be the future then? Will you be able to retain your players and to improve your squad in order to be competitive there?
I was one of those who fully expected the EoS to wither away into being a glorified Edinburgh & Lothians Super Amateur League but the League has defied the odds. How? By committing to the Pyramid! and by good management. Both of which are sustainable. Given that we have a pyramid in the East it seems highly unlikely that it is now going to go away.
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I found some information about the SFA payments to member clubs for 2016/17. It was announced in January 2018 and was covered by the main newspapers. Nothing about how exactly the money was divided up though.
https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/scottish-clubs-benefit-from-10-million-scottish-fa-investment/
Scottish clubs benefit from £10 million Scottish FA investment
Monday 8 January 2018
Annual pay-out to clubs rewards growth in 2017.
The Scottish FA rounded off 2017 with an eight-figure pay-out for clubs, with £10.3 million distributed to member clubs across the nation.
The payments support the growth of the game at all levels and are intended to reward member clubs for their dedication to core components of the Scottish FA’s strategy, including:
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Development of home-grown elite players for club first teams and Scotland national teams;
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Good governance;
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Improvement of standards through club licensing;
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Contributing to the achievement of “Strong Quality Growth” outlined within the Scottish FA’s strategic plan, Scotland United: A 2020 Vision.
More than £5.9m of revenue from the William Hill Scottish Cup has been distributed to participating clubs, derived from broadcasting, sponsorship and proceeds from the semi-finals and final.
Member clubs participating in the Club Academy Scotland, the Scottish FA’s youth performance programme, received more than £2m in investment. This figure included payment for members who achieved targets in Measurable Performance Outcomes, which focus on the development of talented young Scottish players while providing a pathway to first-team football.
Meanwhile, Club Licensing saw some £1.7 million invested in clubs, while Affiliated National Associations (ANAs) received nearly £300,000 in annual performance awards from the Non-Professional Game Board.
In addition, the Scottish Football Partnership (SFP), an independent organisation that aids Scottish football in grant funding projects, has been awarded a financial contribution for facility improvements. Member clubs will now be able to apply directly to the SFP for capital projects, which will assist in developing infrastructure and other related facility improvements.
Stewart Regan, Scottish FA Chief Executive, said: “This substantial level of investment underscores our lasting commitment to developing the national game at all levels and recognises the hard work that our member clubs put in to the continued growth of the game.
“We are already starting to see clubs reap the benefits of our strategic vision and by investing in our member clubs we aim to further facilitate the progress that has been made in a variety of areas across the game – from grassroots football through to youth development via our performance strategy.”
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Again from NLM:
Re: [fitbadaft] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to]
Edit | Delete | Quote | Reply or Reply Privately
Looking back, the use of the word Domino was truly prophetic, and it may not be all over yet!
Newtongrange Star, today, confirmed that they are applying to the EoS. Followed by confirmation from leading fellow Super League club Penicuik Athletic that they have been accepted. That's now five Super League clubs going and rumours (no more than that) of another Super League outfit, Dundonald Bluebell, moving now rather than deferring for 12 months.
There is, now, the inevitable, unsubstantiated, speculation that the remaining "south of Tay" Super Leaguers will join in too. They would be Broxburn Athletic, Sauchie Juniors, Jeanfield Swifts and Kennoway Star Hearts. We'll see! Then there's Linlithgow Rose and Bo'ness United. Who knows what they'll end up doing but standing still seems less likely with every passing hour.
Meanwhile, in the Premier Division, there is strong speculation that St Andrews United may have decided to go too.
Overall the EoS ended the season with 13 clubs. Losing Kelty Hearts to the Lowland League in exchange for Hawick Royal Albert.
Gaining 17 clubs (subject to verification regarding Arniston Rangers) to give a current likely total of 30 clubs for next season (Not including Newtongrange Star or St Andrews United).
Quite a domino effect set in slow motion by Kelty Hearts a year ago but gathering increasing strength since Dalkeith Thistle then Bonnyrigg Rose decided to move earlier this year.
The EoS look likely to have two full Tier 6 sections next season with a distinct possibility that a third Tier 6 section may be necessary if there is a further influx of clubs before midnight on Application Deadline Day, 31st May. Quite a turnaround, and what a reward, after the hammering the league took when it whole-heartedly supported the foundation of the Lowland League.
Hopefully the critics who jumped onto the band-wagon a few years ago will move on gracefully and apologetically. It will very soon be time for reconciliations all round, especially if a number of previously "very reluctant" clubs bite the bullet and come on board for next season.
It's time to bury the hatchets, to be positive and to look to the future!1 -
Go West!
Stand by for Linlithgow and Bo'ness announcing they are hoping to leave the East Juniors - but not for the East of Scotland League.
Maybe Fauldhouse, Armadale and Whitburn could join them.
Makes sense if they want to remain Junior. Could be ratified at SJFA AGM.
#TJsSuperDooperLeagueReply:
Well this would certainly be better for these two clubs than playing in a much weakened East Region Juniors' Super League. They're not far from Glasgow after all. It would also give them an alternative route into the Pyramid, as put forward by the SJFA.
How would any others remaining in the East Region Juniors cope with the extra travelling, loss of players, etc involved if they, also, decided to switch to the West Region? Or is it just big clubs switching to a #TJsSuperDooperLeague ?
There again, why would less ambitious clubs, wanting to remain Juniors, switch to the West when the SJFA states that the #TJsSuperDooperLeague will be at Tier 5, or is it Tier 6?
Shame about most of remaining clubs, outside those which you mention, in the East Region Juniors. "A ball of confusion" for them. Wonder what they will do now?? There's still time to switch to the Seniors in the EoS. I bet the EoS is grateful that this has leaked out before their dead-line for late applications!
Do you believe that this will go down well with the grassroots support at the clubs mentioned?
What will the big juniors clubs from Ayrshire make of it?
Could this now trigger the next wave of departures from the SJFA? West of Scotland League for 2018/19?
Interesting times.0 -
Copied from NLM:
Go West!
Stand by for Linlithgow and Bo'ness announcing they are hoping to leave the East Juniors - but not for the East of Scotland League.
Maybe Fauldhouse, Armadale and Whitburn could join them.
Makes sense if they want to remain Junior. Could be ratified at SJFA AGM.
#TJsSuperDooperLeagueReply:
Well this would certainly be better for these two clubs than playing in a much weakened East Region Juniors' Super League. They're not far from Glasgow after all. It would also give them an alternative route into the Pyramid, as put forward by the SJFA.
How would any others remaining in the East Region Juniors cope with the extra travelling, loss of players, etc involved if they, also, decided to switch to the West Region? Or is it just big clubs switching to a #TJsSuperDooperLeague ?
There again, why would less ambitious clubs, wanting to remain Juniors, switch to the West when the SJFA states that the #TJsSuperDooperLeague will be at Tier 5, or is it Tier 6?
Shame about most of remaining clubs, outside those which you mention, in the East Region Juniors. "A ball of confusion" for them. Wonder what they will do now?? There's still time to switch to the Seniors in the EoS. I bet the EoS is grateful that this has leaked out before their dead-line for late applications!
Do you believe that this will go down well with the grassroots support at the clubs mentioned?
What will the big juniors clubs from Ayrshire make of it?
Could this now trigger the next wave of departures from the SJFA? West of Scotland League for 2018/19?
Interesting times.0 -
It will be interesting to see how the EoS draws up its' parallel sections at Tier 6 level.
However, I noticed on a Junior sub-forum that some-one has put in a link to a Pyramid Working Group meeting Minutes from way back in 2013. The bit that caught my eye was:
"Structure beneath the Lowland League:
• Two feeder leagues – the existing EoS and SoS leagues
• Clubs can only be promoted to the LL if licensed
• The top licensed clubs in the EoS and SoS Leagues would play against the teams finishing in the bottom two places of the LL to determine who would play in the LL in the following
season (Subject to likely numbers of licensed teams - two teams could go into the play offs from one of the leagues should the other league not have a licensed team). "
As I see it this suggests that, in order to avoid promotion places being blocked by clubs which aren't yet licenced, the Lowland League will accept the Top Licenced Clubs - so they don't need to be the EoS or SoS champions if the champions are unlicenced. Also, two clubs from the same league could take part in play offs, if needs be.
This doesn't happen now but surely something of the sort should be brought in for next season? It is easy to see that champions of the parallel EoS Tier 6 sections might not yet have achieved licenced status in time to take promotion and could block a licenced club from promotion. Surely that wouldn't be in the best interests of the Pyramid? Similarly if say the SoS couldn't come up with a promotion candidate, it would give an extra chance for an EoS club (or, indeed and WoS club, for that matter).
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55 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:
West of Scotland League at tier 6 gets created. West SJFA at tier 7.
OK, here goes!
There's already Tier 6 leagues in the East and South so use them! That's by far the simplest route. The SJFA has to come up with convincing reasons why this should not be the case.
In the West those clubs which want into the pyramid should get on with it and join the SoS or form a WoS league. An expanded SoS league would soon see the stronger clubs reach the top. It's about making things happen. There is no reason why the champions of the EoS, Sos and a new WoS cannot be given a right to promotion to the 16 team Lowland league, as it's large enough to take three relegations per season.
In the north the SFA has to get a grip. The rules of the Tier 5 leagues should be the same. This means the Highland league reduced to a maximum of 16 clubs with agreed opportunity for promotion and relegation between it and the North Juniors and, maybe, the North Caledonian, plus the north of Tay clubs from the East region of the SJFA (unless another way is found for these clubs to take part in the pyramid).
However, it is important to remember that clubs need not to be put into a position where they are forced into accepting promotion. If the Champions don't want it then offer it to the next eligible club - in order to prevent "bed blocking". If the chance of promotion is there then clubs can build for the future with the certainty that, if they are good enough, the promotion door is still open.
Those SJFA clubs which are not yet ready to join the pyramid could fit in later, knowing that the door is open to them too - allowing them to plan their futures with a degree of certainty.
There are umpteen ways to make things happen rapidly - no shortage of options. Just make decisions and get on with it. Cut the procrastination. That needs agreement between those involved and, if that's not happening then heads need to be banged together pdq by the Pyramid Working Group, and, if needs be by the Board of the SFA.
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11 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:
It would appear to be a turn of phrase that has thrown people off. LTHV presumably have an ongoing application still going through the compliance phase, while Blackburn & Dalkieth will now begin their compliance phase.
Yes that's right:
Finally they considered two requests for Scottish FA membership applications both of which were accepted and have now been referred to the licensing administration to progress in the normal course.
........so that means there's an intermediate category for Registered Members on their way to Full Membership as explained by Burnie.It was posted that there was to be a meeting of the Licencing Committee on Monday 23rd April. There have been posts which strongly suggested that LTHV were hoping to gain their Licence so that they could accept promotion if they win the EoS. They and Heriot Watt Uni have been carrying out ground works/improvements and so would seem to be natural candidates for Club Licences (?). Apparently, according to the SFA regs the SFA has three days, after the Licencing Committee meets and decides upon applications, to notify the clubs in writing, so more should be known tomorrow - unless there was no 23rd April meeting! That would have implications for promotion to the Lowland League if LTHV win the EoS.
According to posts here there may be lots of clubs which have already been accepted into the "intermediate" stage, heading for Full Membership. It would be interesting and very revealing to see just how many clubs and which clubs which have been accepted into the process of gaining Full Membership. Existing Full Member clubs and Associations/Leagues would be entitled to access to SFA Minutes so perhaps there's someone who can answer these questions. Perhaps this also explains the SJFA's "panic" and the wording of the SFA email:
Given the ongoing uncertainty around finding a pyramid solution to bring the Juniors into the fold and the number of junior members that appear to be leaving without knowing what the pyramid solution is, it was agreed unanimously by the Scottish FA Board that it would not take any more membership applications until such time as this matter is resolved.
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Why are there discrepancies between first two versions of the SFA Board Meeting of 19th April, 2018? Presumably because the SFA man was at the meeting and the SJFA man wasn’t.
(All three emails are together at the foot of this post for quick reference)
[a] Firstly there is the communication from the SFA Official about the meeting. Then there is the first email from the SJFA to certain (perhaps all?) East Region Junior Clubs following the meeting.
The SFA communication refers to “specific concerns … raised …..by one of their members.” Presumably this was the SJFA and refers to “ongoing uncertainty around finding a pyramid solution to bring the Juniors into the fold.” However, it is, indeed, a concern that the SJFA seems to have had such a long-term uncertainty about any Pyramid system which is outside their control, even though they have operated three regional ones of their own for many years.
[c] It then refers to the acceptance of two new Full Member clubs which have now been referred to Club Licencing – Presumably Lothian Thistle HV and Heriott Watt University(?) – with the decisions on their Club Licences scheduled for the 23rd April meeting. These decisions are scheduled to be verified to the clubs up to three days later – on or by 26th April.
[d] If it is these two clubs, they are SFA Registered Clubs moving to Full Membership status in accordance with the SFA’s Articles of Association. This is nothing to do with Registered Clubs switching leagues and Associations. Such clubs remain free to do that if they wish. If they then seek promotion e.g. to the Lowland or Highland Leagues, they will need to obtain Full Membership and a Club Licence – just as LTHV and HWU (?) are presumed to have done as above. The paperwork, any ground works, etc will take time but the next deadline for that would be the application for Full Membership and Club Licence in time for the 2019/20 season.
[e] The SFA Board appears to have put the SJFA “on the spot” to come up with a system which works for all interested parties by as early as July 2018. This would, necessarily, have to include a satisfactory future for those remaining 55 – 60 Junior clubs which didn’t vote for any pyramid, and for the north of Tay Eastern Juniors, etc .
[f] This would then give the Pyramid Working Group the best part of 12 months to consider the SJFA proposals, and any others which may have been put forward, in order to come to an agreed solution, satisfactory to all parties, which bring those Junior clubs that wish to do so into the fold for 2019/20. Perhaps, with the EoS League willing to go to 32 teams in 2018/19, this is infact the first step towards EoS/East Region Juniors integration. This would take in nearly half of the south of Tay East Region Juniors followed by the remainder in 2019/20. The future of the north of Tay clubs remains to be resolved but needs to be dealt with urgently.
[g] From the SJFA’s first email:
To confirm: The Board of the Scottish FA have agreed in principle to the Juniors entering the Pyramid at Tier 6 with possible target for implementation commencing season 18/19. There will also be a moratorium on applications for Scottish FA membership and Club Licensing whilst discussions are ongoing re Pyramid integration.
[h] From the SJFA stand-point they are working to a tight dead-line (possible target for implementation commencing season 18/19). That fits with [e] above but it is far from the end of the matter. (see [f] above)
“Moratorium on applications for Scottish FA membership and Club Licensing”. OK. A potential delay of just one meeting whilst the SJFA comes up with a workable solution for consideration by the Pyramid Working Group and the SFA Board. There could be additional delay if the SJFA doesn’t succeed but the ball is firmly in their court to properly engage with the process. If they fail then the Pyramid fails to expand into the current Junior ranks save for those which may have lost patience and moved on. The ball then returns to the Pyramid Working group to just get on with it. No more chances for the SJFA to integrate en masse, sadly.
The three emails were apparently as follows:
(I) SFA
"Subject: Pyramid Group
Further to the above, there has been a considerable amount of conjecture since last Thursday’s Scottish FA Board meeting re this matter and, accordingly, I thought it would be helpful to clarify exactly what the Board agreed.
The Board of the Scottish FA discussed the matters that have been considered at the two Pyramid working groups with the most recent one having been chaired by myself. They also considered certain specific concerns in this context that were raised with them by one of their members. Finally they considered two requests for Scottish FA membership applications both of which were accepted and have now been referred to the licensing administration to progress in the normal course.
Given the ongoing uncertainty around finding a pyramid solution to bring the Juniors into the fold and the number of junior members that appear to be leaving without knowing what the pyramid solution is, it was agreed unanimously by the Scottish FA Board that it would not take any more membership applications until such time as this matter is resolved. This ensures that all clubs are able to make informed decisions in the full knowledge of what the future landscape looks like; something that they are unable to do at present.
The Scottish FA President will be chairing this and will be reconvening the pyramid working group in early course to take this forward. It is his and the Board of the Scottish FA’s wish that this can be resolved over the Summer allowing clubs to know what the situation is prior to the start of next season (noting that if any structural changes are agreed these would not come in until season 19-20). If matters are resolved in this timescale it will only be one Board meeting (June) where the Board are not considering applications for membership which should not cause any issues for clubs given the length of time it then takes to work through the process to gain full membership.
Alan, will be in touch in early course to set up a meeting.
Kind regards
Andrew McKinlay
Interim Chief Executive
Scottish Football Association(II) SJFA
I’ve only had informal notification as yet. Andrew McKinlay the Interim CEO is out today so it will be Monday before I catch up with him. However my source of information was at the meeting so it is “kosher”
Once I have received confirmation in writing or verbally from Andrew I will put out a formal notification to clubs.
To confirm: The Board of the Scottish FA have agreed in principle to the Juniors entering the Pyramid at Tier 6 with possible target for implementation commencing season 18/19. There will also be a moratorium on applications for Scottish FA membership and Club Licensing whilst discussions are ongoing re Pyramid integration.
Hope this helps. If you need anything further please let me know.
Regards
Tom Johnston
Scottish Junior FA
(III) SJFA
Gents
For information. Would have liked the response to be more robust however the information I have is that we are heading in the direction that will see us join the Pyramid – subject to an EGM – at a level no worse off than the EOS/SOS
Regards
Tom Johnston
Scottish Junior FA0
Junior football, what is the future?
in Junior Football
Posted
It seems to me, although I am no legal eagle, that what TJ has referred to should be read in the context of the constitution i.e, Junior clubs swapping regions, and nothing-else.
Even that seems highly dubious if contested in a court of law. Constraint of trade is the term which springs to mind.
But I'm no legal eagle!