[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

Have copied over my post from the Juniors Forum as I think that it is relevant:
 

Other posters have highlighted that TJ has been extremely quiet on the departure of clubs from the Juniors to the EoSL.

I think that there is a real danger that a trap may be set for departing clubs at the SJFA Annual General Meeting on the 16th June - one week's time.  This is where I think the one year resignation notice rule will first appear.

In my view all clubs departing for the EoSL this year or next should submit their resignations / anticipated resignations before the 16th June.

Where this will leave clubs that want to depart for 2019/20 to the WoSL such as Clydebank I do not know?

[Junior football, what is the future?]

Other posters have highlighted that TJ has been extremely quiet on the departure of clubs from the Juniors to the EoSL.

I think that there is a real danger that a trap may be set for departing clubs at the SJFA Annual General Meeting on the 16th June - one week's time.  This is where I think the one year resignation notice rule will first appear.

In my view all clubs departing for the EoSL this year or next should submit their resignations / anticipated resignations before the 16th June.

Where this will leave clubs that want to depart for 2019/20 to the WoSL such as Clydebank I do not know?

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

From the Juniors forum, looks like they've gone for a sequential split, left to right with the EoS and right to left for the Juniors.

 

This image originated from Truthteller who has a community reputation of -117.

Where is the EoSL headed paper?  Committee item number?

Caveats etc that one would normally expect to see?

Very suspicious:

- 2 Conference Bs
- paper inserted into printer at an angle

Fake news?  Why have not other clubs leaked it?

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

9 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

What would be the point, as it's entirely speculative? We'll know the real thing soon enough.

I get the impression that the EoSL admin do read the P&B. No "head in the sand stuff" this side of the divide. Good ideas might prosper - but I am not saying that making a draw for the 3 Conferences would work if the fixture secretary has to build in a number of permutations - ground sharing, no floodlights etc. At least we will have a proper Fixtures List to scrutinise and admire in the near future.

[Junior football, what is the future?]

8 minutes ago, Pow wow said:

Talk about having your cake and eating it Burnieman. There are NO junior clubs in the EoSL. You’ve made your bed now go and lie in it and give the rest of us peace.

We all love football or else we would not be on P&B.  We simply need to find a solution fit for the 21st century. A positive way forward would be for the SJFA to make the Junior Cup an open competition for all Non League sides and retain control of this prestigious competition. The alternative will be a fragmented JC competition for diddy clubs in 5 years time.

[Junior football, what is the future?]

9 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

It would be the first time that the quality of junior vs. senior would be able to be judged every season and over many games.

What if Spartans or Cove won it? Some in the juniors might not want the myth of junior superiority to be tested in the real world.

 

They could always restrict entries to EoSL and SoSL clubs to ensure that a Junior Club won.  There again they might even get that assumption wrong.

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

On 6/3/2018 at 15:47, Pyramidic said:

Over the moon with the restructuring of the EoSL.
 

I would suggest that the 3 Conferences (13 teams in each) are formed by first establishing 13 pools each with 3 teams based on current league positions.  This seeding will give us the following:

Pool 1
Hawick Royal Albert, Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale, Preston Athletic

Pool 2
Leith Athletic, Tynecastle, Heriot-Watt University

Pool 3
Peebles Rovers, Burntisland Shipyard, University of Stirling reserves

Pool 4
Coldstream, Eyemouth United, Ormiston

Pool 5
Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts

Pool 6
Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic, Linlithgow Rose, Penicuik Athletic

Pool 7
Dundonald Bluebell, Broxburn Athletic, Hill of Beath Hawthorn

Pool 8
Bo'ness United, Camelon Juniors, Newtongrange Star

Pool 9
Sauchie Juniors, Jeanfield Swifts, Musselburgh Athletic

Pool 10
Haddington Athletic, Blackburn United, Dunbar United

Pool 11
Tranent Juniors, St Andrews United, Arniston Rangers

Pool 12
Dalkeith Thistle, Edinburgh United, Oakley United

Pool 13
Crossgates Primrose, Craigroyston, Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare

A draw should then be made in front of the member clubs to determine which teams from Pool 1 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C; which teams from Pool 2 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C etc. etc. This process will enable the constitution of each conference to be fairly determined by a draw while at the same time using realistic seeding. (Pool 5 - Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts - is the difficult one to seed and basically incorporates those teams that are left over).


The provision of a 3 team Championship Play-off League at the end of the season is an awkward process but must be fairly addressed.

Again I would suggest a seeding process - with the Conference champions with the most points (or better goal difference) being seeded No. 1. The next best No. 2. The team with the lowest number of points being No.3

We will then have 6 matches (4 games for each team) in a mini-league (home and away)

1 v 3
3 v 2
2 v 1

3 v 1
2 v 3
1 v 2

If the seeding is correct then everything will depend on the last match 1 v 2 (with 1 having home advantage).

It is a bit messy but I cannot think of a fairer process. It will probably mean that the Championship Play-off League will take 3 weeks to complete. I suppose the other option would be to play a single round of games perhaps using neutral grounds.


The EoSL Championship winners will meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff to determine the promoted team.

The teams finishing 1 to 5 in each of the 3 Conferences will enter the EoSL Premier (Tier 6) in 2019/20 (with the probable exception of the Champions who will be replaced by the last placed team in the Lowland League).


There is then the issue of how to determine Club No.16 for the EoSL Premier in 2019/20.

It could be one of four:

1. The EoSL championship winners are not promoted as they lose the Lowland Promotion Playoff with the winners of the SoSL.

2. An additional club relegated from the Lowland League because of a relegated club from SPFL2; OR

3. Clydebank - if the WoSL is a non-starter; OR

4. The winners of a Promotion Playoff between the 3 teams finishing sixth in the 3 Conferences (similar format to the Championship Play-off League?) 


All the remaining teams in the 3 Conferences drop to Tier 7 in 2019/20 - possibly Division 1 North and Division 1 South.


It is a little more complicated than it first seems. Is my logic correct?

The weak area in my view is the delay created by a 3 week Championship Play-off League before the EoSL Championship winners can meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff.

Previous thread - responding to Burnie_man.

 

I agreed with the debate that the Pools / Pots should be rejigged so that - Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale, Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic, Linlithgow Rose - are in the same Pot.

I can amend the Pools/Pots if anyone is interested

 

[Junior football, what is the future?]

1 minute ago, Marten said:

The Scottish Junior cup as a non league trophy has been put forward by both sides. It's about the only thing that the majority of posters on both sides agree with.

The introduction of Senior sides in the Junior Cup seems such a sensible move to build up consensus and cooperation.  Who on earth would be opposed to such a move in the Junior hierarchy and what would be their reasons? Sorry if I appear naive.

[Junior football, what is the future?]

Just wondering how the supporters of the "Missing Six" - Kennoway Star Hearts, Fauldhouse United, Thornton Hibs, Glenrothes Juniors, Bathgate Thistle and Whitburn Juniors - teams that have has a creditable SJFA East Region Superleague pedigree - feel about their clubs rejection of the EoSL and progress?

I can quite understand the postion of Tayport given their geographical juxtaposition with Dundee and the north of the Tay clubs. I can understand the SJFA East Region South Division clubs hanging back for another season - they basically have nothing to lose.

However what the "Missing Six" have rejected  in my opinion the opportunity for rapid progress via an exciting new "level playing field"  to again play against the likes of Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic, Linlithgow Rose and Bo'ness United at the highest level.

In my view the "Missing Six" are the big losers - in particular Bathgate Thistle with their wonderful history. They are the club that in my view had a wonderful opportunity to turn things around and have totally spurned it. Was their decision to stay made on the basis of reasoned justifications or tribalistic loyalties?

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

With 3 Conferences each with 13 teams there will each week be 3 teams without a game.

It would be very easy for the EoSL to set up a cup competition incorporating those teams without a league game as each week they will be different teams.

Round 1:
Conference A teams v Conference C teams
13 teams progress

Round 2:
Conference B teams v winners of Round 1
13 teams progress

This would mean that teams would be able to play competitive games during the season against teams from the other Conferences.

Each weekend of the season only one team in the EoSL will be left without a game.

Final Rounds

13 teams compete at the end of the season in the final rounds.
[Conference Champions might drop out if competing in the Championship Playoffs].

 

Any views on benefits / disbenefits of this type of "fill-in" competition?

[Junior football, what is the future?]

5 minutes ago, Gimme said:

Despite the on pitch success things appear (from the outside) to be looking less than rosy at Musselburgh, manager leaving, players leaving in their droves and rumours of money troubles.

Disappointing to hear.  Perhaps an opportunity to work with Musselburgh Windsor.

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

7 minutes ago, ShrimpLok said:

For better or worse the approach of the PWG has very much been to look for consensus solutions and "nudge" clubs using things such as Scottish Cup Entry and Licensing Criteria rather than force through any top down re-organisation against clubs wishes. 

The positive side of this has meant that clubs have been engaged in the process and broadly seem to have bought in to the changes. 

The negative side has been that organisations that were less interested in engaging - SJFA, HL - have been able to just exert a kind of inertia in areas where they have most influence. This has meant instead of an orderly transition in the East we've ended up with a bit of a last minute scuffle. However that has meant those clubs that didn't wish to move to the Pyramid haven't been forced to against their will. 

Personally I'd like to see a bit more leadership from the SFA but ultimately they're a member organisation and presumably prefer to try and deliver a consensus solution. 

In my view there is a desperate need for the SFA to appoint a dynamic officer who is tasked to deliver a proper effective pyramid.  The officer will of course need to report his/her progress to the SFA PWG and highlight any difficulties and encumbrances that are faced. At the same time the officer will need to build up effective relationships with all the key parties including the SJFA, leagues and of course the clubs.

One of the problems we face at the present time is poor publicity - a key issue for the officer to address.

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

38 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

As much as I'm intrigued by how it'll all turn out. I can't help but get the impression you're more excited by the process than football

My interest is multi-faceted - history of Scottish Non-League football, groundhopping and fascination with re-structuring (and respective views for and against the pyramid). I would love to see the SJFA eventually absorbed into the SFA for the greater good of Scottish football. Junior football has had a truly wonderful heritage but in my view it is time to move on and embrace change and establish a structure fit for the 21st century.

A start would be to allow Non-League clubs, both Junior and Senior, to enter a revamped "Junior Heritage Cup".

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

8 minutes ago, Marten said:

Sounds decent enough. Although maybe it's better to have a pot of "top seeds" consisting of LTHV, Bonnyrigg & Linlithgow (LTHV instead of Hawick based on last season). Then there are 12 remaining "EOS" teams and 24 newcomers, both numbers can be divided by 3.

The play-offs could be carried on across the league, so lower clubs play for classifications & qualification for next season's leagues. In that way each club is guaranteed 15 home games.

These are good points. I suppose the problem of play-offs across the Conferences to determine positions and classifications are those clubs that build up a back-log of postponed fixtures.

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

Over the moon with the restructuring of the EoSL.
 

I would suggest that the 3 Conferences (13 teams in each) are formed by first establishing 13 pools each with 3 teams based on current league positions.  This seeding will give us the following:

Pool 1
Hawick Royal Albert, Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale, Preston Athletic

Pool 2
Leith Athletic, Tynecastle, Heriot-Watt University

Pool 3
Peebles Rovers, Burntisland Shipyard, University of Stirling reserves

Pool 4
Coldstream, Eyemouth United, Ormiston

Pool 5
Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts

Pool 6
Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic, Linlithgow Rose, Penicuik Athletic

Pool 7
Dundonald Bluebell, Broxburn Athletic, Hill of Beath Hawthorn

Pool 8
Bo'ness United, Camelon Juniors, Newtongrange Star

Pool 9
Sauchie Juniors, Jeanfield Swifts, Musselburgh Athletic

Pool 10
Haddington Athletic, Blackburn United, Dunbar United

Pool 11
Tranent Juniors, St Andrews United, Arniston Rangers

Pool 12
Dalkeith Thistle, Edinburgh United, Oakley United

Pool 13
Crossgates Primrose, Craigroyston, Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare

A draw should then be made in front of the member clubs to determine which teams from Pool 1 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C; which teams from Pool 2 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C etc. etc. This process will enable the constitution of each conference to be fairly determined by a draw while at the same time using realistic seeding. (Pool 5 - Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts - is the difficult one to seed and basically incorporates those teams that are left over).


The provision of a 3 team Championship Play-off League at the end of the season is an awkward process but must be fairly addressed.

Again I would suggest a seeding process - with the Conference champions with the most points (or better goal difference) being seeded No. 1. The next best No. 2. The team with the lowest number of points being No.3

We will then have 6 matches (4 games for each team) in a mini-league (home and away)

1 v 3
3 v 2
2 v 1

3 v 1
2 v 3
1 v 2

If the seeding is correct then everything will depend on the last match 1 v 2 (with 1 having home advantage).

It is a bit messy but I cannot think of a fairer process. It will probably mean that the Championship Play-off League will take 3 weeks to complete. I suppose the other option would be to play a single round of games perhaps using neutral grounds.


The EoSL Championship winners will meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff to determine the promoted team.

The teams finishing 1 to 5 in each of the 3 Conferences will enter the EoSL Premier (Tier 6) in 2019/20 (with the probable exception of the Champions who will be replaced by the last placed team in the Lowland League).


There is then the issue of how to determine Club No.16 for the EoSL Premier in 2019/20.

It could be one of four:

1. The EoSL championship winners are not promoted as they lose the Lowland Promotion Playoff with the winners of the SoSL.

2. An additional club relegated from the Lowland League because of a relegated club from SPFL2; OR

3. Clydebank - if the WoSL is a non-starter; OR

4. The winners of a Promotion Playoff between the 3 teams finishing sixth in the 3 Conferences (similar format to the Championship Play-off League?) 


All the remaining teams in the 3 Conferences drop to Tier 7 in 2019/20 - possibly Division 1 North and Division 1 South.


It is a little more complicated than it first seems. Is my logic correct?

The weak area in my view is the delay created by a 3 week Championship Play-off League before the EoSL Championship winners can meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff.

[Junior football, what is the future?]

Has anyone had a go preparing the league constitution for the ERSJA for 2018/19 based on 36 clubs?

I assume 3 divisions with 12 teams in each?