Sinner-to-Saint
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Posts posted by Sinner-to-Saint
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1 minute ago, Dunning1874 said:
What about black on black crime though? type post.
You've just plucked this "it's about grooming gangs, actually" logic out of your imagination with no evidence.
Meanwhile, anyone who responds to someone saying "black lives matter" in response to institutional racism by saying "white lives matter" or "what about white lives" is either a racist who knows fine well what they're doing, or thick as pigshit in failing to comprehend that saying "black lives matter" isn't a statement which says black lives matter more than other lives but should be valued equally. Talking about white lives in response to that is only ever an attempt to divert attention from the issue at hand.
No, I don't think they should be prosecuted in this case, but Burnley would entirely correct to ban them.
'What about black on black crime though? type post.'
No, it's really not. It's about examining the statistics to verify the cause is genuine before tearing down statues and cheering on a cause that is potentially very divisive and antagonistic, rather than listen to media hysteria.
It surely isn't difficult to see how someone from Burnley, a town roughly about the same size as Paisley, might know of girls who have been groomed by gangs and think to themselves "where were all these hysterical protests when that was happening over here?"
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3 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:
The culture war is already there to a greater extent. That's part of the reason why we have Brexit and the Tories have a stonking majority.
The UK is more right-wing in its politics than it has probably every been.
If promoting the message 'Black Lives Matter' results in the police literally taking a knee, whilst promoting the message 'White Lives Matter' results in arrest, then we have a problem and I'm not sure people are willing to accept that.
It's exactly the same message applied to different races.
This is what I have found regarding the stats on unarmed people being shot dead by police in the US:
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1 minute ago, Dunning1874 said:
I take the point that the far right want a culture war and people want to avoid playing into their hands, but if the response to this is deciding never to challenge racist behaviour in case it provokes a culture war then racists will know they can be racist with impunity and they've already won.
So someone from Burnley who wants to juxtapose the reaction of the grooming of white girls, who have had their lives traumatised in that very town, with the reaction to the death of a black man killed in a foreign country 3,000 miles away, is a racist? Really?
Also are you suggesting the culprit should be prosecuted?
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2 hours ago, MixuFruit said:
Wants to imply something unsubstantiated about gypsies in Govanhill without straight up saying it type of post.Since you mention Govanhill:
I believe it also has its own cleansing department to.
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3 hours ago, pandarilla said:
Anyone making that comparison is an idiot, though.
The reading attacks were carried out by a guy on his own who decided he wanted to go and stab people.
The blm protests relate to overwhelming evidence of racism in America's police forces. It's a campaign that's spread around the world due to the everyday racism that black people suffer in other countries, including this one.Absolutely genuine question, have you seen the statistics regarding the race of unarmed people killed in the US? Nobody should believe the media, but investigate the facts for themselves.
As for the banner - I believe that Burnley, along with Rotherham, Rochdale, Telford and many other towns had a problem with gangs of mostly Asian men grooming underage, primarily white, girls. The quote the BBC: Jack Straw Former Home Secretary Jack Straw has been accused of "stereotyping" after suggesting some men of Pakistani origin see white girls as "easy meat". In many instances this was covered up for many years, in order to avoid controversy, with the police and social workers being told to turn a blind eye. I believe a case can be made to say these girls' lives will have been traumatised by being raped multiple times by men, especially as some of them were as young as twelve.
I don't recall hysterical protests at the time or since, despite the fact that the councils and police failed to act, despite being aware of these things. I don't know the motivation for flying the Burnley banner, but perhaps it was designed to draw attention to those grooming gangs?
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24 minutes ago, NotThePars said:
Complaining about mass immigration when you live in Scotland is the clearest sign you spend too much time online immersed in the culture wars.
I live and work in Glasgow and have watched the demographics change very quickly, and unabated it's pretty obvious it will continue to change over the next decade or two, as will Glasgow's character and identity, IMHO. I'm all for a certain amount of diversity, but I genuinely do not feel that mass-immigration benefits me or the city as a whole. That's a debate for another time and place, though.
I'm off to watch Lord of War!
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13 minutes ago, coprolite said:
Do you not support the right of the woman behind the camera to articulate her views in an unfettered manner?
I do. There's a line between free speech and harassment, though. She had the right to tell him what she thought of him, but she was also filming him and followed him around. I found it uncomfortable viewing probably because I think she was trying to incite a mob rather than trying to exercise her right to freedom of speech.
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On 18/06/2020 at 18:06, Mr. Alli said:
That's stunning. Full Button strips are certainly the way forward.
I hadn't even noticed until you said...how strange!
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47 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:
So much for the tolerant left eh?
I think many people who believe themselves to be 'left wing' are anything but tolerant. They're modern day puritans who police what people say and get hysterical if certain views are aired publicly.
I have many 'left wing' views - I believe in the regulation of the economy, and a decent welfare state and free health care. But I'm also a 'fascist' as I think mass-immigration has been bad and I believe in people's unfettered right to articulate their political views (free speech).
Whilst I believe the cop in the video has every right to be presumed innocent, and that he should be able to walk the streets unmolested, I live in the real world. Is there a better time to be in his position than right now when people are actually being encouraged to wear masks?
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7 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
The ambulance staff despite being american were willing to go into the autonomous zone and treat casualties with police protection, the protesters refused and then blamed the ambulance staff for failing to treat the injured. Absolute madness.I think the authorities are doing the right thing, here. If I was the mayor, I would set up a 'border' (think blockade) and charge a tariff on goods 'exported' to the zone. I wouldn't prevent the exportation of various commodities, but I would, say, quadruple the price of the good by way of the tariff. So somebody wants to take in a $10 dollar pizza? Fine, that'll be a $30 tariff. I don't think it would last very long and I reckon any outside help would be exhausted very quickly. Bet of all it'd close with absolutely no violence from the authorities.
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2 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:
You don’t have to be atheist to accept that religious mania is a thing.
Sutcliffe’s schizophrenia took the form of hearing the voice of god tell him to kill prostitutes.No, my point was that some of my atheist friends literally think I'm mad for simply believing in the "magic tooth fairy in the sky", etc. So for someone to blow themselves up with a bomb for religious reasons, then surely they must be considered insane by a large proportion of society.
I thought there was uncertainty about Sutcliffe, and he was to be moved back to prison?! Unless there's a cure for schizophrenia, that implies he was malingering, but I'm too lazy to look it up.
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1 hour ago, Juanhourjoe said:
This is terrible what has happened in Reading. However police and the media constantly using the word terrorist, is blatantly inflammatory. And will justify an increase in racist views being tolerated. Rather ironically during BLM protests.
I'm ambivalent about the term 'terrorist'. To me it would have to indicate the motive is to advance a political or religious agenda. But then there is surely an overlap between hate crime and a political cause - if the targets are a particular race, ethnicity, sexuality or adherents of a particular religion, surely? If so, when does it stop being a hate crime and become a terrorist incident, or is it both?
Then there's mental illness. I know some atheists who argue that belief in God is a mental illness. Is a suicide bomber a fanatic or mentally ill? What about Adorno's The Authoritarian Personality which argues that fascism is a psychological disorder brought about by childhood experiences? Were Bobby Sands and the hunger strikers totally rational?
What about the Yorkshire Ripper - his targets were women, particularly prostitutes. Was this not a form of terrorism? But was he not also schizophrenic?
If I am honest, I am genuinely confused. If he was targeting people drinking alcohol does that make it a terrorist incident? If he was targeting white people, a hate crime? Or was he just a mad man, perhaps driven insane by things he'd witnessed in Libya? Or perhaps there's some overlap.
What I'd really like to know, is what difference does it make? Serious question.
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1 hour ago, Michael W said:
Now being declared a terrorist incident.
Aye, what I have read this morning, it would seem he was targeting people drinking alcohol.
1 hour ago, The OP said:I'm confused, do the stabbings have anything at all to do with BLM protests? Seems to have happened hours after and police have denied any link (although there is a lot of flip flopping going on re the 'terror' aspect).
Obviously the only certainty is that there was a BLM protest held in the park a couple of hours before the incident. Besides that I have read conflicting reports - either all those who attended the protest packed up and left, or some stayed to enjoy the sun in the park.
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Apparently the same is true of Harvard...
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48 minutes ago, Michael W said:
The PA is reporting that the man arrested is Libyan.
BBC reporting "at least three" dead according to their sources. Probably the same source the Telegraph has.
There is a lot of animosity between Libyans and sub-Saharan Africans, as the former pass through Libya on their way to Europe and are apparently treated very badly - enslaved, held hostage for ransom by militias, murdered for money, etc.
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4 hours ago, tongue_tied_danny said:
Life imitates art.
That's the plot of I'D for crying out loud.
I haven't read the article, but could he still not be working for Special Branch?
The BBC are reporting that The Green Brigade are in George Square today:
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On 17/06/2020 at 22:17, Cardiff Hibs said:
First time caller.....
Dyed in wool Hibee so freely admit to being biased. But also hopefully fair and balanced. Admit to having initial sympathy for Hearts - imperfect solution - but appalled by their subsequent arrogance, entitlement and delusions of grandeur. Who advised them on their PR ? And precious little self examination of the roles Budge and Levein played in getting them to this point. Any sympathy from me - and majority of other clubs - disappeared pretty quickly when they sought to threaten, bribe and coerce.
Plenty of mates who are card carrying hard nosed Jambos. Sensible and likeable long time friends but they appear to have lost the plot over this business. No rational thought, just anger and increasingly aggressive.
And so to Court. Nothing is certain in a court but still believe this will end in a mutual face saving out of court settlement. Amount anyone’s guess but the real cost - regardless of financial winners and losers in judicial process - will be far greater for Scottish football, friendships and communities than this whole sorry affair.
Not read the rest of the thread, so it might already have been covered, but:
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I was surprised there wasn't a dedicated thread created about this.
Wikipedia describes it thus:
QuoteThe Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ)[5][6] or the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest[a] (CHOP),[6][7][8] also known as Free Capitol Hill,[9][10][11] is an occupation protest and self-declared autonomous zone[1] in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Seattle, Washington.[12] The zone,[6] originally covering six city blocks and a park,[13][14] was established on June 8, 2020 by George Floyd protesters after the Seattle Police Department (SPD) vacated its East Precinct building.[15]
Local governance in the zone is decentralized, with the goal of creating a neighborhood without police. Purported demands associated with the zone include rent control, the reversal of gentrification, the abolition or defunding of police, funding of community health, and releasing prisoners serving time for marijuana-related offenses or resisting arrest, with expungement of their records.[16][17]
There are updates about it available around the internet. One of my favourites is this Twitter account:
It will be interesting to see how long this lasts, and whether they achieve their stated objectives.
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12 minutes ago, Flash said:
Are all the clubs who voted yes going to issue a statement?
I hope so. Unfortunately I understand my own club voted against, which is shameful.
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1 minute ago, GordonD said:
When have I ever given the impression of being a Livingston fan?
For the avoidance of doubt, I hate them because they destroyed my club.
Because a lot of your posts, and your signature, are about Livingston and though unflattering I thought it could just be self-deprecating. You have also indicated you support Meadowbank Thistle, which doesn't exist as far as I'm aware - a Google search resulted in Livingston FC as the top search result, so I wondered if you were being nostalgic.
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2 hours ago, Green Day said:
Tom English is now struggling with reality.
Said it yesterday, there are some clubs where he will barely be allowed over the door once this is finished.
I appreciate I'll be going against the grain here, and that most people are revelling in Hearts' relegation, but I think that's a really great article by Tom English. I'll post the salient passages below:
QuoteBecause Hearts are the biggest of the three clubs facing relegation, most of the attention has been on them. That suits the other clubs who have voted against reconstruction. They want the argument focusing on Hearts and not Partick Thistle or Stranraer because it's easier to kick Hearts than it is Thistle, it's more convenient to bang on about Ann Budge - a misogynistic tone to some of it - and to mock Hearts' financial wastefulness and their awful decision-making than it is to confront the steepling injustice that is Thistle's situation.
(...)
Many of these same people are lying low. Ross County's Roy MacGregor was one of the few who raised his head above the parapet over the weekend when saying that Hearts should "take their medicine" and desist from legal action. He presumably meant that Thistle should also take their medicine. Let him and others justify those comments to Partick Thistle, a club whose future will be in jeopardy if, and probably when, it's confirmed that they can't play league football until next year.
No club deserves this kind of treatment. Having won just two out of 13 league games before football was suspended MacGregor's own club were in freefall. Even hopeless Hearts had more points than them in that period.
Had Ross Country continued that trajectory and dropped to 12th and were then robbed of a chance to rescue themselves because of the pandemic would MacGregor be practising what he's now preaching about taking his medicine or would he be highlighting a wrong and calling for support? It doesn't matter who the afflicted clubs are, no properly functioning governing body - one that purports to act in the interests of 42 clubs - would stand over this decision.
(...)
We're asked to believe that people who scream the house down over a bad refereeing call would sigh and take their medicine when the very stability of their club was put in jeopardy. They wouldn't be happy, you understand, but they wouldn't be behaving like Budge with her legal action and her QCs and her vow to fight this to the last. They'd have more class.
They should save that stuff for the tourists. Court now beckons and with it comes the disapproving shaking of heads among clubs who have given Hearts no other option but to fight. "It's a sad day when lawyers get involved," said an official at one of those clubs who voted against reconstruction. If only his self-awareness matched his self-interest.
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1 hour ago, GordonD said:
Will Hearts do a Livingston and refuse to turn up for their first couple of games?
Are you a Livingston fan, or not? I have noticed a couple of your posts over the years, and always wonder whether you're a self-deprecating supporter, or whether you hate Livingston as they destroyed your club.
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1 hour ago, GiGi said:
Umbro stating they won't promote it says it all. Linfield probably chose the colour scheme with Umbro either not knowing or caring about what it represents.
Still they'll be happy to take the money I assume.
Will it sell well, though? I think it has the potential to become a top seller with supporters of Rangers, Chelsea and possibly other clubs buying it, too. So perhaps it's a calculated decision based on the club's concerns about the current financial situation.
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George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests
in The General Nonsense Forum
Posted · Edited by Sinner-to-Saint
I actually think there were attempts made to stop protests about the grooming - mostly by left-wing groups and the police, mostly, is I recall.