DoingThe42

You mean 2002-2019 (2008 always seemed like a balloon set to burst). Just get this done and who fucking cares whether it's first or second in the group.

Assuming you're at the wind-up, but it's not logical to say "You have rejected a bad solution to a problem so you can never moan about the problem again."

You can complain about a decision or criticise a referee without wanting to completely change how the game is officiated.

There are numerous issues with VAR, and going into individual decisions is pointless, as the overall point is about the nature of the game. Football just isn't suited to it. It's fast paced, it's a contact sport full of collisions, and the rules are subjective. What's excessive force to you? Probably different to someone else. Furthermore, it ruins the fan experience at the ground. Only the most stubborn VAR advocate could stand about at a stadium for a few minutes waiting for a decision and still think "this is fine". Who could possibly enjoy it? Scottish football is overwhelmingly about the paying fan. We have limited tv income and our clubs rely on the paying fan. They should be the priority, but we were never asked. We were never asked because they didn't want to hear the answer. Most decisions were already correct. People can disagree about what's a significant improvement, but decisions were overwhelmingly correct pre-VAR. It's a waste of resources. Those of us who watch lower league fitba in the SPFL will see that the standard of refs, while never amazing at that level, has obviously been affected by the number of officials tied up on VAR duties further up the chain. There are now vastly over-promoted refs doing SPFL games as a result. Anyone else at Clyde v Dumbarton last Saturday? Fucking hell. You see some awful officials at that level now. The final point is that, unchecked, VAR will only get bigger. Burnley v Chelsea last week had play stopped after it had re-started to check a goal. We were told that wouldn't happen, but football and its rules are reactive. One big controversy is all it has taken to make VAR's reach bigger, and that's going to keep happening. Eventually everything will be on the table for VAR. You can lose a game because of anything that happens on a park, and it'll just grow with each passing controversy. If you're bothered about it, contact your club. Email them, send them a letter, contact your club's SLO, write a letter to the paper, text Sportsound, do whatever you feel like. But the only way this changes is if the public conversation moves away from the idea that VAR is a finished debate and we have to have it now. We don't have to have it, but people need to actually give it tight to their clubs for anything to change. Part of that is whingeing about it in the media and making them talk about it. Talk of boycotts etc is too early, imo, but, if clubs refuse to engage with fans who question them about VAR, then it becomes something that's on the table. I hate VAR. I hate that this was all so predictable. It could never have gone any other way.

Looks brilliant. I've been making a wee list of Welsh grounds to go to over the last year or so. Some absolute belters down there.

Well, they did it at Turf Moor yesterday. The VAR check on Chelsea's last goal went on after the game had re-started and the ref stopped the game so it could be completed.

I don't know what the general feeling around VAR is among Scottish fans, since nobody has ever asked us. of the roughly 15 or so people that I go to games with regularly, one is pro-VAR. That might be my age or whatever, but it rankles with me that nobody ever asked what we thought, especially since we, like the countries mentioned, are a country whose football relies on the people who attend. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/08/protest-and-resist-fans-in-scandinavia-lead-backlash-against-var

Just checked London Hearts. 1994 and 1995 new year games at Tynecastle were both postponed. John Miller scored in both games when they were played, which explains why I'd thought he scored twice in 95. 94 was a 1-1 draw and 95 McPherson and Miller scored in a 2-0 win. I'd completely forgotten the 94 one, but now having seen it on LH I can remember Miller's goal. Weird.

That one was at Tynecastle. I can't remember an Easter Road one being off. We lost there new year 96 and then beat them 4-0 there a year later, and the other trips there around that time all went ahead as far as I can remember. I think they were the only winter trips.

Think that was 95? We won 2-0 when they played it and John Miller scored.

Hibs were 8 points off the top of the league going into the 6-2 game. In October.

There are certain conversations from years ago that stick in the mind. I remember clearly my old man telling me there was not a fucking prayer of spending what Hibs were asking for that game to go and see a match we could watch on the telly. It's hard to put yourself back in time far enough to remember how outrageous 26 quid was then. I think the previous season had been 15. I've got the ticket lying around somewhere. Maybe 18. * Yes, I am that sad. Just found it in my old ticket envelope. March 2000, 18 quid to get in. The following season, 26 quid. The equivalent of a fourteen quid price rise today. Was a weird time for clubs trying to both join English clubs in cashing in on price rises post-all seater and taking into account that people could just watch on telly now. Hibs were way over the score for a few years in terms of pricing, and it showed in these games. I think they all charge too much these days anyway and only occasionally get along to see Hearts. So, tomorrow I'll be following this one on the radio from Clyde v Dumbarton.

Mixu penalty miss was the wee Hearts allocation because of the rebuild. Bittersweet one for Hearts that day. The end of the game was hilarious, but that draw also meant our first season without a win over Hibs for about 20 years.

The Guardian reporting that in the Premier League it will now be possible to correct a decision once play has re-started. "VARs will now also confirm the outcome of the checking process with the assistant VAR before confirming the final decision to on-field officials, to avoid errors of miscommunication. The protocols should also allow for issues to be raised once play has restarted, which was not previously possible." https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2023/oct/06/var-back-in-spotlight-henderson-backs-saudi-2034-world-cup-football-news-live VAR never gets smaller; it only gets bigger. If they're doing this in England, we'll be doing it up here in a few weeks. The level of intrusion on the game continues to grow. Worth underlining that fans in the stadium will no longer be able to take a decision in the match at face value, even once the game has re-started. And all this when the vast majority of decisions were always correct anyway. If only this had been foreseeable when VAR was first suggested...

Every time Rory Loy says 'in my opinion' I take a shot. I died of liver disease a year ago.

I don't think that's the main risk here. At any hint of a fire they would simply have stepped aside and the doors open. The extra people in the stadium are the far bigger danger, and the root cause of the secondary danger of the fire exits being held shut. For all that it sounds alarmist, the fans doing this are putting their fellow fans lives at risk and fan groups, normal supporters, and the club should be recognising this. Those stairs leaving Fir Park could easily be a problem if there were too many people there. It's more likely someone falls, it's more likely you have pushing etc. It's madness. Imagine if there was a fire, or any spark of mass panic, or even just the crowd getting a bit arsey trying to leave. You're over-capacity, and that means the building is over the number of people it can safely accommodate. It's really, really selfish.

Going to sound quite boring here, but I once worked somewhere where we had a near-disaster during a fire because the building was over-crowded and it, obviously, became very difficult to get everyone out of the building quickly. We managed it in nowhere near the regulation time as per our fire drills etc. At one point I was quite convinced I'd either get crushed or burn to death. It was quite a horrific experience realising you're basically helpless due to sheer volume of bodies. If I was at a game and realised people were doubling up or getting in through fire doors etc, I'd honestly just leave. I never want to be in that situation again, and stadiums have obvious capacities for a reason, and they are designed to hold and evacuate a certain number of people. It's amazing that people will behave like this knowing what we now know about crowd safety, and it's amazing people will try and shift the blame off those fans. I've blocked all Celtic content from my Twitter feed as it was making my life worse. Has there been any comment on this from any Celtic fan groups, their SLO, or the club themselves? It's the kind of behaviour that will get someone killed one day and everyone will act surprised. The incident I describe above came after at least a year of staff pointing out that the building was dangerously busy at certain times of the week. Nothing was done till people nearly died. I imagine football will act in exactly the same way, and people will keep trying to shift the blame from their fans in the same way.

Enjoyed reading through this. Never noticed this thread before. I'm building up to my first marathon in Seville in February. Done a few halfs before and am generally 1:50 for them. Did the Kelvingrove 10k a few weeks ago in 47:50 and was raring to go for the Glasgow half yesterday, until I got fucking covid. Bellahouston Park half then one in Preston in January still to go before Seville, so it's not a disaster. Very frustrating to get sick two days before after all the prep though.

I've not listened to too much Sportsound this season, but, Covid keeping me in the house and away from Clyde's comeback on Saturday, I had it on all afternoon and actually thought it was fine. The reporters covering the games were enthusiastic and knowledgeable, OAM spread the time around the games fairly, and there was nothing that stuck out as too bad. Have to caveat this with the fastest I moved all weekend being to switch it off at half five at the mention of the fans and music section. Never again. Never again. So, anything post 5.30 I am not sticking up for. But up till then I enjoyed it on Saturday.

What makes it so funny when they lose is that Rangers and Celtic should be beating all the other teams when they play them at home. Miller was right to say that. And it's very funny.

You go to the BBC Scottish Football page. I had it on all afternoon.

It's not really forgetting. You have to know something first to forget it.

Anyone not got access to the CL on telly, like masel; Austrian tv show it for free. Currently watching Salzburg leading 1-0 at Benfica. They scored their second penalty, hitting the bar in between the two and Benfica also hit the post. Benfica down to ten men.

Hurlford United 1-3 Pollok, WoSFL Premier Division, 8/9/2023. A good game on my first visit to Blair Park. Hurlford took the lead with an early penalty, but it didn't take too long for Pollok to square it up after a neat finish from a defensive error. The first half was quite even, with things going end-to-end and either side could have been ahead at the break. Second half, Pollok stepped up a gear and really controlled it. Deserved to win and it could have been more. Top moments for me were realising that the chancer in yellow at the gate had saved eight quid by just watching the whole game from the street through the gate. And Pollok coach Stewart Maxwell having a hissy-fit when the linesman (who was obviously concentrating on doing is job at a free-kick) didn't answer his pointless question about injury time. He got proper put out about it and threw a wee huff. Weird. Still, a good day out and a good game.

Darlington 2-2 South Shields, National League North, 28/08/2023. A smashing game at Darlington on my first visit to their (reasonably) handsome town. South Shields looked much the better side for long spells, and I reckon are a significantly better side, but Darlo played well over the ninety and were only denied a come-from-behind win by South Shield's last-minute penalty. South Shield's opener looked like it may well have been handball, which got the atmosphere going with the home crowd enraged. Just over 2,000 present, two penalties, four goals. A good Bank Holiday day out. As with my last National League North day out, at Blyth v Hereford, this one also had a Clyde connection; Cameron Salkeld introduced as a late Darlo sub.