Ad Lib
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Posts posted by Ad Lib
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3 hours ago, Passionate said:
So in layman's terms, someone has came to the club with 500k in his back pocket saying it's yours for 8 percent shareholding, you will get it on one condition, get that chairman to f**k or you are getting nowt..
Is that a shortened version of what's happened..
No. The dispute between AC and the other Club Board directors was completely unrelated to the investment deal.
It is unfortunate that the two issues reached their completion at almost exactly the same time, because this has confused them in the eyes of some outside observers.
But I can absolutely 100% guarantee that the new investor was not involved either in the original dispute, or the efforts to resolve it. Indeed, Alistair Creevy himself doesn’t imply this in any of his statements.
Alistair Creevy was removed because it was plain as day to the majority shareholder, and its trustees, that there was zero prospect of either (a) him continuing to work with the other four directors or (b) reaching a voluntary agreed departure from the Club Board. His continued presence on the board was not tenable so he was removed.
There is nothing more or less to it than that. Whatever folk think of the content and veracity of recent public statements made by Alistair Creevy, he has rather proved the point in making the public statements he has.
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When you consider that Brian Graham and Zac Rudden were brought in that January transfer window to replace Kenny Miller and Gary Harkins, it's safe to say that Ian McCall was, very emphatically, being backed at the time!
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8 hours ago, TONTROOPER said:
Well hello there Robbie ...
Bye bye Robbie.
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This was a very enjoyable afternoon.
Robbie Muirhead.
Boing Boing.
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Hello@The Thistle Archive
I love the website, but I have a question.
We're often looking to get stats on former players (particularly things like "how many red cards did they get") or a complete list of matches they've played for Thistle.
There's an easily accessible "all goals scored" tab for each player on the website but I can't find the equivalent for matches or things like bookings/red cards.
Am I missing something really obvious?
Cheers in advance.
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40 minutes ago, Its not only a game said:
St Mirren lost 1.5 m last year , Motherwell circa 1m loss- not sure that is sustainable -do hope so…..
The year you are talking about (for St Mirren at least) was the 2021-22 season, which was still Covid-affected. If you read their accounts you will see that exceptional factors significantly influenced the quantum of their losses, including a failed-deadline day player sale (which was supposed to fund the signing of two players) and a substantial overspend on the Ralston Training complex. The auditors indicated that these were exceptional circumstances, were unlikely to recur, and were satisfied that St Mirren could continue trading as a going concern (which it did). The accounts still show strong cash reserves and net current assets.
Of course, in the same period, several privately-owned football clubs sustained substantial losses too.
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53 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:
I might be wrong, but I think with the way the ownership is set up we need to break even at least - so spending our way out of trouble isn’t an option.
Regardless of the ownership situation it is unsustainable for any football club to run at operating losses. This would be no less true for Thistle if it were fan owned as if it were in private ownership. If a private owner was unwilling to (find a way to) underwrite the overspend, you'd be in exactly the same position.
There is a specific issue around the PTFC Trust and its shareholding, which means that a tax charge potentially could apply if the Club does not break even by the tenth anniversary of its creation (ie in 2025). However that's a slightly separate matter.
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11 hours ago, third lanark said:
Skint?
You will recall that TJF pointed out back in June that, even with our pledge of additional funds to the Club for this season, it would be necessary to generate at least £500k of completely new investment to fully address the cashflow and issues while maintaining a competitive team on the park. Whilst the Club is working on that stream of activity, that new investment has not (yet) been delivered.
Fans should not be under the impression that our financial situation has been solved. It hasn't. It has been only partially ameliorated.
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9 hours ago, Nightmare said:
From SPFL:
If clubs are level on points at the end of the group stage, the criteria for separating them is 1) goal difference, 2) goals scored, 3) away goals scored, 4) matches won, 5) away matches won, 6) head-to-head record, 7) drawing of lots.
And the existence of 7 implies that head-to-head record excludes the penalty shootout.
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1 hour ago, Nightmare said:
Hope the wee Bairns with their “Falkirk Fear Yoof” flag who were constantly singing in the pub about Norrie McCathie being in a box have a miserable weekend.
Absolute fucking roasters. Was pleasing when The Woody decided to stop serving them.
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1 hour ago, Fuctifano said:
Would be great to get McAvoy back but how bad was his injury, he could be out a while yet?
I had heard that he's due or recently had surgery again, so if there's a loan deal to be done, it won't be until January.
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The good news is this should hopefully mean that GoogleMaps finally updates it so it's no longer referred to as the Energy Check Stadium at Firhill.
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3 hours ago, Don Kneelcaster said:
We have to hope then-you say you are “convinced” -that this “completely different set of people” ultimately do things differently than the previous set of people.
They have already done so. For first, they haven't refused offers of direct financial support. For second, they have facilitated full financial disclosure to two of our directors. For third, they have gone onto bring about substantial financial disclosure to the fans. For fourth, they have been extremely keen to get TJF representation on the interim Club Board. For fifth, their budgeting assumptions for this season are far more realistic than those they inherited. For sixth, we are literally the wet signature on a trust deed variation away from an actual fans group taking a controlling interest in the majority shareholding.
3 hours ago, Don Kneelcaster said:But, at the moment, we are NOT a fan-owned club in line with St Mirren or Motherwell so until or unless that’s achieved, we have to … wait and see. You seem to have a lot of ‘certainty’. Any, thoughts about ‘when’ genuine fan ownership (on a par with St Mirren or Motherwell etc) might be finally achieved?
Only in the sense that the legal relationship between Club Board and the fan ownership vehicle has not been finalised. But there is a clear roadmap via which this will happen.
I am reasonably confident that we will be there or thereabouts ahead of the Club's next Annual General Meeting. But the sequencing of the reforms has to be done right.
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15 minutes ago, Don Kneelcaster said:
Yes, but the key words are “turned out to be.” For a long time, Thistle fans and just about everybody else who knew something about it, expected JLow, 3BCs, The Thistle board to give the shares to TJF.
Not true. There were those of us who were extremely sceptical from the outset.
15 minutes ago, Don Kneelcaster said:Then later after further negotiations with a new TJF board there was hope rather than expectation. But, finally they were given to another group which popped up out of nowhere which had never even been mentioned.
Another group that, it turns out, had been given certain assurances about the Club’s financial prudence that turned out to be at variance with the actualité.
15 minutes ago, Don Kneelcaster said:Then, there was shock combined with anger, a sense of betrayal and yes, a profound belief amongst the fans, TJF etc we had been lied to. My feeling overall surrounding raising this issue here, is how can we stop what ultimately happened previously, happening again?
Well the parcel of rogues aren’t on the Club Board anymore, for starters.
And for second, we now have proper Jags folk at the table, like Dougie McCrea, and a TJF representative, to oversee phase two of the corporate trustee model.
A model whose legal changes, giving TJF a seat at the fan ownership table, will be happening imminently.
15 minutes ago, Don Kneelcaster said:TJF have a lot of money which is being paid as subscriptions by PT fans who are members of TJF. The club and individuals who are not necessarily members of TJF want that money, which has been offered by TJF at a time when PTFC is in a financial pickle.
Has it occurred to you to ask why TJF didn’t simply give this money in February, when the scale of the challenge became apparent to the new Club Board?
This hasn’t been done flippantly. It is the fruit of about six months of joint working and an extensive financial exercise to provide a more realistic and deliverable baseline budget for the football club. It has also been timed, very deliberately, to coincide with other progress in the model.
15 minutes ago, Don Kneelcaster said:But, when money is available and desperately needed, sometimes people will say or/and agree to anything easily to get it. My point is, how can we be certain we aren’t having ‘the wool pulled over our eyes’ a second time?
Because it’s a completely different set of people in charge of the Club now.
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10 minutes ago, Don Kneelcaster said:
“This model is far from maturity and it isn’t (as) tidy…..…fan ownership promise……..we are…a(n) partner”
Yes, I understand you are “convinced” that those on the….board are serious about delivering on the fan ownership promise, but didn’t you previously at one time think the same about J Low and that previous board? And that came as quite a shock at the time. Of course, the present board want the JFL subscription money, but they haven’t delivered true fan ownership of PTFC yet, which is my point. You believe they will. We will see in due course. In the meantime…..
No, I never thought the same about Jacqui Low.
Happy to clarify.
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10 hours ago, Don Kneelcaster said:
The Jags Foundation (TJF) was brought into being for a specific purpose. This was to be the democratically-run, accountable PTFC supporters organisation, which would be the repository for the 55% majority shareholding (given by the late Colin Weir) to allow fan ownership of the club. Since it was first instituted, a lot of water has gone under the bridge but the model which we currently have does not (to me) conform to the genuine models of fan ownership seen at eg St Mirren FC or Motherwell FC or other fan owned clubs.
Yet, we know (because they’ve told us) that TJF has earmarked large amounts of TJF subscription funds to be given to PTFC now and in the future. Why was this money, promised by TJF/given to the club-supporters’ money-not offered conditionally on the club becoming a genuinely fan-owned club on the lines of those other fan-owned clubs? After all, previously, when J Low turned down TJF as a repository for the shareholding, she said, “The club neither wants or needs your money.” (And the subtext was , ‘Neither do we want you!’) Now we know that the part of her statement about “need” was false, but surely the supporters still seek what was wanted at the very start of the process, ie genuine fan ownership. And, having this money to offer, surely provides the way to achieve this. Yet, no changes are being made (as far as I’m aware) to the current fan ownership model (if you can call it a ‘model’).
You must be living under a rock then.
In the last fortnight:
(a) TJF AGM unanimously approves the corporate trustee model
(b) PTFC Trust conducts an indicative ballot of ST holders on the corporate trustee model
(c) TJF representation appointed to the Club Board
(d) the last Club Director from the "old board" stepped down
This model is far from at maturity, and it isn't as tidy as it should have been. But the fundamentals have changed drastically since the PTFC Trust received the majority shareholding. There is a genuine collaborative process in place, a clear commitment to move towards more permanent arrangements for fan representation and skills-based board appointments, and for the remaining three PTFC Trust trustees to step away from their roles when the new legal and working arrangement is in place.
TJF would not be making major financial commitments if its leadership group was not convinced that those on the interim board of the Club are serious about delivering on the fan ownership promise. We are now an indispensable partner that all with influence at Firhill want at the heart of things.
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On 07/06/2023 at 11:42, Forfinn said:That's a remarkable statement from TJF. A couple of things stand out for me:
It's a bit odd to preach about financial responsibility and transparency then immediately commit to funding you admit you don't have, but also not say how much of a shortfall needs to be made up. Is that figure readily available from elsewhere?
We arrived at the commitment based on what comparable fan groups at other fan owned clubs raise. We circulated our accounts to all our members about 7 months ago, and if anyone wanted to ask how much we currently raise, they could do so and would get a straight answer right there.
As of earlier this week we were raising about the equivalent of £80kpa after running costs, with about the same again in cash reserves. Having put £50k into the Club, the cash reserves are a lot lower now, but our monthly pledges have also increased by more than £4kpm in the space of four days.
We’ll meet the target.
On 07/06/2023 at 11:42, Forfinn said:It's surely not helpful to have a fan ownership group so lacking in grace and decorum? At a time when you need everyone to pull together, including lines like "we hope that no-one involved in almost ending that 147 year history of our football club ever shows their face at Firhill again" can't be helpful. They seem to have had a massive chip on their shoulder all the way through the takeover process. The official club statement seems much more measured.
When you consider that Club officials repeatedly denied us due diligence, published a sneering Directors’ statement with the last financial accounts blowing their own trumpet on financial prudence, publicly stated on national radio and in print that we were lying about the finances, and it turns out we were completely correct, you’ll forgive us for hoping they never set foot in Firhill again. The vast majority of Thistle fans agree.
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Begrudging respect for Morton's fan ownership journey. I'm just delighted that our own fundraising efforts are now comparable. It's been a tough year but there is a unity at the Club now that there hasn't been in years.
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2 hours ago, Derry Alli said:
Love it when fans just start randomly clapping (it's obviously for a reason we haven't yet been told) but it just sounds like it's started pishing down with rain.
A fan died after the Raith Rovers game. Timing marked his age.
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11 hours ago, The Thistle Archive said:
Most of the post-Raith updates are in place on the Archive, still managing to include a video for all 49 games so far, home page news →
A COSTLY DRAW
● Jack McMillan completes the 2022-23 League season as an ever-present for Partick Thistle, with 36 appearances. He's the first to do so since James Penrice and Blair Spittal, both of whom registered the feat in 2018-19. ● Goalkeeper David Mitchell hits a new personal best of 10 consecutive competitive appearances for Thistle. ● Darren Brownlie scores his first League goal for Partick Thistle. ● Bizarrely, Thistle have only conceded 3 penalties in the League all season, with Raith Rovers being the beneficiaries on 3 separate occasions! ● It's 6 direct goal involvements in his last 5 games for the on-form Scott Tiffoney. ● For the fifth consecutive game, all Partick Thistle appearances are attributed to Scottish-born players. It's the longest stretch since a run of 6-in-a-row from 11th January 2011 to 12th February 2011. ● Thistle go 8 competitive away games without a win at Stark's Park (2011 to date), the worst run since the H2H record (12) was set in 1927. ● The lack of a winning goal cost the club £150,000 in prize money, this being the difference between finishing second (£475,000) and fourth (£325,000). ● It's been a season of missed opportunities for Thistle as Dundee become the worst second tier champions in Scottish football history. The points-per-game ratio (1.75) of the Dens Park club falls below Ayr United's ratio of 1912-13 (1.808) when 3 pts per win are applied across all eras. ● For the first time since 1935. Queen's Park finish above Partick Thistle in the League. The two sides will now meet in the play-offs on Tuesday night at Firhill. ● Kris Doolan finishes as the top Championship manager in terms of points earned per game. His total (1.85 ppg) is ahead of 2nd placed Gary Bowyer of Dundee (1.75 ppg). Doolan's predecessor, Ian McCall (1.43 ppg), was well off the pace this season in 7th. Paul Hartley (0.59 ppg) was an outstanding disaster, marooned at the bottom. ongoing sequences: ● 5 competitive home games without defeat; 4th Mar 2023 to date. (Longest run since: 6 games; 26th Nov 2022 to 21st Jan 2023. Club-record: 24 games; 5th May 2001 to 17th Aug 2002.) ● 6 competitive games without defeat, 1st Apr 2023 to date. (Longest run since: 6 games, 18th Feb 2023 to 18th Mar 2023. Joint club-record: 16 games, 15th Nov 1975 to 21st Feb 1976 & 30th Sep 2000 to 13th Jan 2001.) ● 46 consecutive competitive appearances for Jack McMillan, 9th Jul 2022 to date, a new personal best. (Longest run since: James Penrice - 51 games, 7th Sep 2019 to 10th Apr 2021. Club-record: Johnny Jackson - 313 games, 28th Aug 1926 to 25th Mar 1933.)
The real stand-out stat for me there is the Goals Against column. Doolan's Thistle has been drastically better at keeping it tight at the back than any of the other teams this season.
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21 hours ago, welshbairn said:
Given Jack's statement of reasons, I'd say the Section 35 fails. It's not about whether the GRR bill is reasonable after all, it's about their claims of conflict with the ERA, written down in the statement of reasons.
Which facts do you think he has failed to give due relevance to?
I don't think, against any legal standard, the decision is completely absurd.
What matters is whether he reasonably believes that it modifies the law so as to have an adverse effect on reserved law.
The issue here is that whether an effect is "adverse" is in the eye of the beholder.
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A COSTLY DRAW
The Partick Thistle thread
in Scottish Championship General Chatter
Posted
There’s nothing wrong with the Firhill windows.