Ad Lib
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Posts posted by Ad Lib
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It is difficult to think of any purely footballing reasons for McCall remaining as manager.
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4 hours ago, Pie Of The Month said:
Out in Finnieston with his missus on the same day he's too ill to be in a squad with a bench of teenagers.
I think it's his birthday today.
Not smart on optics, but perfectly plausible that someone has a mild enough illness that the medical advice is to rest, but that they're well enough for dinner out.
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Fucking abysmal if we are completely honest.
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19 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:
I'd expect it to be a bit North of £200k. You'll get £24k for live tv (which I'm assuming is a given - I take it hasn't been confirmed anywhere?) I'd expect at least £250k in gate share. You'll get 38% after VAT (costs are irrelevant as such, there's an allowance in the split for costs, which is why the home team gets 57% but that actual itemised cost isn't taken into account).
Depends what the tickets sales are (not the attendance, it's not the same thing) and of course what the prices are. I reckon you'll get nearer £300k than £200k though.
It depends on how optimistic you are about the Rangers home crowd.
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It shakes out at nothing like £500k. The away team receives a proportion of gate receipts after costs.
£200k is much nearer the mark.
Which is definitely not to be sniffed at.
But I would be surprised it if leads to any significant transfer activity.
Read into that what you will.
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Brian Graham reporting for duty
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Ochilview is possibly the worst place I've ever watched a football match.
Queue stretching hundreds of yards to get let in, ten minutes late. A pie queue joined half an hour into the game and not getting served until the game's been going for an hour.
This is the sort of hosting behaviour that should lead to a lifetime ban.
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Merry Christmas Billy Dodds.
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2 hours ago, North British 2 said:
Do you guys have undersold heating at Firhill or is next weeks game in danger of a frozen pitch ?
We have never knowingly undersold heating at Firhill.
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1 hour ago, John MacLean said:
The Jags Foundation nominated Board member in particular is an excellent appointment.
To a certain extent this interim board will need to be an unifying one and I think Caroline Mackie has respect right across the Thistle support and not just limited to a particular, for want of a better word, faction.
Which is exactly why we nominated her. It was a total no-brainer.
Having someone we trust like Caroline in the Club Board room means that we can focus on the other side of this: the fan ownership model and the Foundation's relationship with both the Trust and the Club.
There are so many great ideas and opportunities unlocked by having a Club Board willing to work with TJF. There is a real feeling as well that the PTFC Trust trustees "get it" and that something can be thrashed out by the Working Group that all parties can work with.
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The appropriate comment and statements will come over the next few days, on several important matters. It wouldn’t be right for me to give a running commentary on the events of recent days, and those comments and statements will come out through the right channels.
All I will say is this: the Thistle support aren’t daft, and include a lot of very good people. People with their heads and their hearts in the right places.
We are going to need them. And I am confident they will step up.
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1 hour ago, Virtual Insanity said:
Without wanting to sit on the fence I think there is good points on both sides here.
My personal opinion (which I will be e-mailing TJF about this weekend) is that the reaction to the PTFC Trust announcement could have been more conciliatory in tone.
For context, PTFC Trust made an announcement giving fans the impression that they had asked us for a meeting and that we had agreed to (when they hadn't and we hadn't).
Their "commitments" in the statement are also not making any concessions on the things we've actually asked for. On the contrary, what they've done is basically try to buy themselves time. Notice that their commitment to elections has slipped from "May 2023" to "summer 2023".
Having said they were prepared to update the trust deed in advance of the end of the season, they now want to set up a "working group". This isn't necessary, will be a waste of time, and will simply delay the democratisation of the Trust.
And their announcement makes absolutely zero progress towards majority democratic control of the ownership vehicle.
They also very recently broke a mutual agreement to share with each other key announcements in advance, so that there would be no nasty surprises for either organisation.
We will be conciliatory when there is good reason to be conciliatory. We're fed up of words. We want actions. Now.
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2 hours ago, John MacLean said:
I think the statement from the PTFC Trust yesterday is a welcome one and a small step in the right direction. I previously described the situation that we are currently find ourselves in as a fan base as a civil war. It’s good now to see the potential at least for some détente.
However………………
It’s been a weird old route that has got us to this point and I can’t help but feel that there is still more than an element of doing things back to front.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for the majority shareholder to appraise the current Board and their roles. And I think it is entirely appropriate for the majority shareholder to make changes to the composition of the Board as they see fit.
But we can’t escape the fact that it is the five trustees of the PTFC Trust that are essentially the major shareholders and not the PTFC Trust itself.
Until they democratise their organisation, and it is good to see some steps being made towards that, it will be these five guys, no matter how well intentioned, acting without any mandate to do so. I don’t think they are morally in any kind of position to make changes. Their priority has to be identifying their current beneficiaries and widening the definition of beneficiary. Once that’s done and once there is some level of accountability to their beneficiaries, and this all takes time in an already glacial like process
It was that issue of legitimacy and mandate that caused my eyebrows to rise when The Jags Foundation called upon the PTFC Trust to vote against the reappointment of four Club Board members at the recent AGM. You can’t on one hand question the legitimacy of the PTFC Trust, essentially label them a five man cabal and accuse them of all types of malfeasance in acquiring the shares and then basically ask them to complete what amounts to little more than a coup d’etat. A bit of gesture politics there from The Jags Foundation in my opinion.
And I think TJF are missing an opportunity to demonstrate that they are a member led organisation and that having 900+ members is more than a bargaining tool, by continuing to have ‘red line’ issues before agreeing to further discussions with the PTFC Trust.
I don’t think it is practical for any member based organisation to consult with their membership on every issue and TJF Board clearly have a mandate but, IMO, this is a pretty fundamental issue and one worth canvassing their membership on further (they may well be doing so – I’m not a member) to give them a degree of certainty that this is the wishes of the majority of their membership. Social media would certainly suggest that it is but social media can also be something of an echo chamber at times.
Maybe their membership would welcome a softening of that position and dialogue with the PTFC Trust and maybe they wouldn’t and are entirely supportive of the stance taken by TJF Board, but why not take a bit of time to explore what their members think? There’s nothing to lose by doing so and plenty to gain. It can only strengthen their position and highlight their levels of engagement.
Dialogue is the only thing that is going to sort this mess out. I don’t want to see the Thistle support divided and I don’t want to see fans watching from the canal bank when we should all be inside Firhill together.
For the avoidance of doubt we proactively asked our members, and then the wider support, to contact us if they had concerns about our red lines. The overwhelming majority of responses, and almost every single of the members' responses (of which we had literally over one hundred) emailed to support the red lines. We have also seen the membership grow significantly since doing that.
These were long, considered and proactive emails. They included a lot of considered and carefully crafted thoughts.
Our members are extremely engaged on this, and are clear that they want us to hold to our red lines. We are guided by that.
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7 hours ago, par-adise said:
Been trying to get up to speed with all the shenanigans at Firhill after our incredibly uninspiring Scottish cup draw last night and this is the bit I can't get my head around.
Are you saying that beneficiaries of the Trust are just anyone who's had a season ticket for more than three years? That seems strange in itself, presumably you'll have folk who have no idea they are a beneficiary?
Loads. Most folk will know if they’ve held a season ticket in this and the previous two seasons (though with the Covid affected season even that isn’t clear). But the Trust has been so inactive since 2019, not holding regular and expected elections, and it always used to rely on the Club emailing anything they wanted to say to the beneficiaries.
7 hours ago, par-adise said:My knowledge of how trusts work isn't great, but the fact that these trustees have been able to gain control of the trust (and through this the club) without even the knowledge of the beneficiaries just smacks of terrible governance from the top to bottom. But I'm sure I don't need to tell any of you this.
Join the whole room of floor adjacent jaws accumulated from explaining this story to outsiders.
7 hours ago, par-adise said:What happens in the unlikely event that the Trust makes a barrow load of cash through it's ownership of the club?
Theoretically it could distribute dividends to beneficiaries, or distribute the proceeds of selling the shares to the beneficiaries.
If it actually knew who they were!
7 hours ago, par-adise said:Anyway, onwards to dreich January and a pretty dismal affair between a home team in turmoil playing a stodgy away side. 0-0.
f**k that Mon eh Jags.
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5 minutes ago, Pie Of The Month said:
I'm greatly enjoying these James Cairney series of interviews where he just lets people speak and make c***s of themselves. It's like a Scottish football version of Louis Theroux.
As someone who has been interviewed by James Cairney in this saga, I resemble that remark!
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1 hour ago, G_&_T said:
Thanks for clarifying.
I'm sorry to learn that. What's happening? Surely new people can be elected? More supporters can join and then elect new officials, no? It sounds like there's a need for transparency and folk could stand based on that. Very strange, though I knew that there was stuff happening around Colin Weir's legacy funds. Best wishes for the future.
Simply put, no.
The five trustees currently in post were hand-picked by the football agent Stewart MacGregor, working together with senior figures on the Club Board.
The organisation has existed since 2015, and has held only one set of elections (in 2018). From November 2019 onwards, it has operated with precisely zero elected fan representatives.
Under their current proposals, unelected trustees will continue to be in the majority until at least summer 2024, and the trustee group will not be fully elected until at least summer 2025. None of the unelected trustees are being put up for election in their first set of elections (which may or may not take place).
The Trust deed has been varied several times to circumvent the requirement to hold elections following changes in personnel.
The beneficiaries of the trust (season ticket-holders of three years standing) have no meaningful legal or democratic rights under the trust deed, because the trustees can routinely overrule them.
The Trust doesn't even know how many beneficiaries it has, let alone who they are, because of a GDPR problem.
Compare and contrast with The Jags Foundation, a conventional supporters' association with over 930 members, substantial proven fundraising capacity, a fully elected board, and one of the most prominent engagement strategies in Scottish football.
Who were overlooked for the share transfer, pretty much, because they wanted to be able to hold the Club Board to account for trivial things like, oh I don't know, losing £215k in the last financial year.
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It should be remembered that Gerry Britton:
(a) prepared and presented in April and May 2022 a written proposal “on behalf of” the Club Board for discussion at a trustees meeting
(b) that led to the original “note of interest” mentioned in the Three Black Cats statement made on the Club website in late May, a few days before the TJF elections had wrapped up
(c) he and all bar one of the then trustees then met several times with the group who eventually became the new trustees to discuss and iterate on a proposal
(d) as one of five trustees at the time, Gerry Britton had to agree to the appointment of the new trustees by variation of the trust deed
(e) he will have then been at the Club Board meetings where it was discussed whether to approve the share transfer following a request from Three Black Cats to transfer its shares to the PTFC Trust
Remember all of this when he tries to give the impression that he was not involved in the decision making process.
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They just don't get it.
Every time the PTFC Trust make a statement, The Jags Foundation sees a bump in its membership. Every. Single. Time.
They fundamentally seem not to understand why it is that the fans feel the need to protest in the first place.
It's really pretty galling to see precisely the people who divided the support, by going behind everyone's backs, thwarting fan ownership, refusing to democratise, failing to engage with the fans for three months after being appointed, voting to re-appoint the Club directors en-masse, then turn around and tell other people that they have responsibility for uniting the fan base.
The most unifying thing two things that could happen at our football club right now would be Club Board resignations and a full set of Trustee elections.
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3 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:
Thanks for the feedback. It is very helpful. I am not sure I understand (h). What happens if no olive branch is extended ? Why do you think more TJF members will mean that an olive branch needs to be extended ? Is there some number that changes TJF’s plan ?
Never underestimate the power of football fans and their ability to affect change through protest, pressure, and if necessary their wallets and the law.
The European Superleague was a done deal until it wasn’t. The same with the abuse of power by owners at Cardiff City.
If the Club and Trust show no willingness to work with TJF then they are spitting in the faces of more than 900 of their customers.
A business like Partick Thistle can either respect its customers or find itself very quickly out of business. If you think the fans should sit back and take this contemptuous treatment, fair enough. But more than 900 of us think a proper fan owned club is worth fighting for. And the only way we get to that outcome is to make clear we will make life very bloody difficult for them if they don’t change their act.
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19 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:
Whether I join is up to TJF to persuade me. I am not criticising them. I am just not sure that giving them £10.00 a month or whatever is worth it. And you obviously have no argument to persuade me.
Disappointed ? - I didn’t say I was disappointed. I said I thought they missed an opportunity.While the main membership rate is £10 per month there is also a £5 per month concessionary option and an introductory rate of £1 per month valid for the first 12 months.
In terms of the positive reasons to join TJF I would emphasise the following:
(a) we are the largest members organisation the Thistle support has ever pulled together
(b) our capacity to fundraise significantly outstrips any other Thistle fan body (we bring in about £85k annualised equivalent in membership subs, donations and Thistle Pins)
(c) we advocate, very publicly and relentlessly, a form of fan ownership that would give the fans genuine influence over the really important decisions affecting the future of our club
(d) we bring together Thistle fans in contexts other than just Firhill to enjoy each other’s company and to build a stronger Jags community both in and around Glasgow and further afield
(e) we help other parts of the Jags community financially and through raising their profile. We made a substantial donation to Jags For Good’s Winter Energy Fund and have sponsored two Thistle Women’s games this season, encouraging our members to try out games at Petershill.
(f) we are genuinely engaged with the Thistle support: we proactively seek our members’ views, listen to those of all Thistle fans, living our values of democracy and accountability
(g) we do our bit to educate and inform Thistle fans about the fundamentals of the club they support. Fan ownership is about a culture of responsibility and for the fans to make a success of it, they need to understand how the club is run and funded, and what the key challenges are
(h) uniting the Thistle support in the medium term will only be possible if the Club and Trust reach out an olive branch to TJF and actually offer something serious we can all work for. The more members TJF has, the clearer it will be that’s what the Club and Trust will have to do, and the sooner that might happen.
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2 hours ago, archie guevara said:
Is James Cairney only allowed a limited number of articles in the Glasgow Times? He's been quiet for a while. Maybe waiting to see what happens at the game tomorrow.
Had a good chat with him in the pie queue at the Dundee game. Nothing sinister just been on a holiday.
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1 hour ago, Nightmare said:
Apparently they’re paying someone to do their PR/communications now as well. And yet it’s still riddy after riddy whenever you see or hear anything from them. Money well spent, lads.
It may or may not have been mentioned to them at the face-to-face meeting that TJF pays zero pounds zero pence for its PR/communications strategy, and it's worked out just fine.
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14 hours ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:
Cheers. Aye, ive signed up, f**k it. Nominal amount for now + nominal donation but ill chip in more down the line as things settle down.
Thanks for your support Tdn. We really appreciate it.
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14 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said:
Howzat, @Sting777@Ad Lib@Thistle4eva? Try not to cry yer wee eyes out tonight gents!
No complaints here. Our defence was diabolical. You thoroughly deserved the win.
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The Partick Thistle thread
in Scottish Championship General Chatter
Posted
TJF does not own any shares. The PTFC Trust does.