Livingston - all the threads merged

[andylivi1]

Looks like McMillan won't be signing after all, he's signed with Clyde. 

[Liviguy]

3 hours ago, Diamond Oracle said:

The only way Livingston won't win this league at a canter is if they go bust before May.

Yes like the real Airdrieonians and might be the only way you's are going up.

[Afro]

Didn't want to clog up the cup thread with this but I'd be keen to hear other fans' opinions on the matter. How long, realistically, do we give David Hopkin?

I can appreciate that by all accounts he is a good coach, and he found himself in the position of the manager's job because we're tight. But he's been in charge now for the best part of 13 months, and I could honestly count on one hand, two at a push, how many times I've thought, "we look half-decent here". Aye, some will contend that continuity at a football club is for the best, and eeking out wins is the true sign of a league winning side, but with the plethora of relative riches Hopkin has at his disposal, he is making very heavy weather of it. We still haven't found a way to counteract teams who come to frustrate us, as evidenced by the three defeats now to an ordinary if industrious and organised East Fife side. I really thought he would kick on after what seemed to be an upturn in form in October but we've reverted to type and to be honest, it's fucking boring to watch. I know we're scoring goals but it's nowhere near the same level as Bollan's team the last time we were in this league, and the atmosphere around the club is nowhere near the same.

No doubt fans of other teams on here will read this post with a degree of disbelief and despair, but trust me when I say this, if you've seen any of our matches against East Fife, Queen's Park or Peterhead this season, it's readily apparent that we're a tactically incompetent team who'll get reamed in the Championship week in, week out. This season, I've been trying to compare how we're doing to Morton a few years back, broadly similar circumstances, and whilst they made heavy weather of the league I cannot see Hopkin producing results like Duffy is now.

We do have a good squad of players for this level, and maybe just the lower end of the Championship, but the managerial infrastructure behind them is wholly inadequate. The less said about his assistant, the better.

Should he be gone now? Of course not, that'd be suicide. But if we're still pumping long balls up to the two shortest strikers in the league and playing four CBs come July then I'd be expecting a very bumpy ride.

[AMC13]

Didn't want him in the first place, didn't want him when we got ridden rotten in the play-offs and he won't survive the championship. Yeah he's doing well in this league but this is a very easy league and most managers could do what he's doing right now and even then he consistently loses to the average mid table teams in the league.

[ATLIS]

Been saying it for a while, we need rid of him and we need to get a manager with some tactical sense in. Give them the time to settle rather than Hopkin, he's useless. Completely.

[Aufc]

Being an airdrie fan is pretty poor. However, at least Livi always provide some laughs. Best squad in the league by miles. Continuing to overspend and operate at a loss. Yet still absolutely dreadful

[andylivi1]

2 hours ago, Aufc said:

Being an airdrie fan is pretty poor. However, at least Livi always provide some laughs. Best squad in the league by miles. Continuing to overspend and operate at a loss. Yet still absolutely dreadful

Absolutely dreadful but yet 3 games played against your lot, 3 wins and 10 points clear of you, but hey as long as you're having a good wee laugh about it all 

[andylivi1]

I know I'm in the minority here but I back Hopkin. 

It just comes across like he can't win, we've won more than we've lost, and we've played some good stuff in a lot of those games, for a spell in Peterhead a couple weeks back I saw Livi playing some of the best football I've seen from a Livi team, but you never see a thread saying well done Hoppy, set up the team great today, what you see is...he played great, what a performance from this guy etc etc, well if the players get all the credit for winning and playing well, shouldn't they take the blame for poor performances ? 

As ive said in the past I'm not his biggest fan, I wanted him to go at the end of last season just like most others but he's the manager, every single fan of the club said at the start of the season the league is the most important thing, we need to win promotion, well we are 9 points clear with a game in hand, we are well on track to do just that. 

Yesterday was disappointing, it was a chance to progress and get a good draw in the cup but it just didn't happen, it happens sometimes.

We seem to think we have a formidable team but we are a league 1 team for a reason, we have league 1 players with the exception of 1 or 2, I see some arguments that if we get promoted we'll just come straight back down with this team and manager, well wait and see, to me that stinks of disrespect to the rest of this division.

Hopkin will never win at this club because the fan base can't get over how bad we where last season. 

Bring in someone with experience...like Mcglynn, Hughes....that worked well, ok bring someone in that's young and HOPE they do a job like Jack Ross...like Burchill...it's a conveyer belt of managers at Livingston, we've done experienced, we've done young and enthusiastic, let's try stability for a change.

Edited January 22, 2017 by andylivi1

[hoobahabba]

I really don't understand the negativity towards Hopkin. We were not the only team to invest in our squad at the beginning of the season. Alloa and Airdrie made a fair few acquisitions as well. And yes, since then we have spent more than those around us, but he had us in a strong position long before we made overkill signings like Gallagher and Jacobs. He's done well to put us where we are and the fact that other would-be competitors have struggled to perform consistently doesn't change that.

How can you argue that Hopkin is making heavy weather of League One when we are nine points clear at the top with a game in hand?

The club already has a bad enough reputation for our revolving-door management policy. Why condemn the manager before he's even had a shot at the Championship with his own squad of players?

[hoobahabba]

3 hours ago, Aufc said:

Being an airdrie fan is pretty poor. However, at least Livi always provide some laughs. Best squad in the league by miles. Continuing to overspend and operate at a loss. Yet still absolutely dreadful

Yet still better than Airdrie.

[AMC13]

I know I'm in the minority here but I back Hopkin. 
It just comes across like he can't win, we've won more than we've lost, and we've played some good stuff in a lot of those games, for a spell in Peterhead a couple weeks back I saw Livi playing some of the best football I've seen from a Livi team, but you never see a thread saying well done Hoppy, set up the team great today, what you see is...he played great, what a performance from this guy etc etc, well if the players get all the credit for winning and playing well, shouldn't they take the blame for poor performances ? 
As ive said in the past I'm not his biggest fan, I wanted him to go at the end of last season just like most others but he's the manager, every single fan of the club said at the start of the season the league is the most important thing, we need to win promotion, well we are 9 points clear with a game in hand, we are well on track to do just that. 
Yesterday was disappointing, it was a chance to progress and get a good draw in the cup but it just didn't happen, it happens sometimes.
We seem to think we have a formidable team but we are a league 1 team for a reason, we have league 1 players with the exception of 1 or 2, I see some arguments that if we get promoted we'll just come straight back down with this team and manager, well wait and see, to me that stinks of disrespect to the rest of this division.
Hopkin will never win at this club because the fan base can't get over how bad we where last season. 
Bring in someone with experience...like Mcglynn, Hughes....that worked well, ok bring someone in that's young and HOPE they do a job like Jack Ross...like Burchill...it's a conveyer belt of managers at Livingston, we've done experienced, we've done young and enthusiastic, let's try stability for a change.

Agree with a lot of this, the fact that he is nine points clear is good but with the resources we have compared to the rest of the league it's no surprise and this should be expected.

A lot of the loses seem to have to many tactical errors and that's why he takes the blame, for me he's a coach who would do well being under a manager I'd maybe keep him as a coach and get rid of Martindale but it seems he's the one running the club.

I believe our squad is the one doing well in this league but in the Championship it won't be one of the better squads so without someone with good tactical sense I think he'll take us straight back down.

[Whitburn Vale]

5 hours ago, Aufc said:

Being an airdrie fan is pretty poor. However, at least Livi always provide some laughs. Best squad in the league by miles. Continuing to overspend and operate at a loss. Yet still absolutely dreadful

Teapot,Kettle,Black 

[AMC13]

Being an airdrie fan is pretty poor. However, at least Livi always provide some laughs. Best squad in the league by miles. Continuing to overspend and operate at a loss. Yet still absolutely dreadful

And still absolutely walking all over your shite team and shite attempt at a title challenge. Mind the gap and off you pop now.

[Afro]

I know I'm in the minority here but I back Hopkin. 
It just comes across like he can't win, we've won more than we've lost, and we've played some good stuff in a lot of those games, for a spell in Peterhead a couple weeks back I saw Livi playing some of the best football I've seen from a Livi team, but you never see a thread saying well done Hoppy, set up the team great today, what you see is...he played great, what a performance from this guy etc etc, well if the players get all the credit for winning and playing well, shouldn't they take the blame for poor performances ? 
As ive said in the past I'm not his biggest fan, I wanted him to go at the end of last season just like most others but he's the manager, every single fan of the club said at the start of the season the league is the most important thing, we need to win promotion, well we are 9 points clear with a game in hand, we are well on track to do just that. 
Yesterday was disappointing, it was a chance to progress and get a good draw in the cup but it just didn't happen, it happens sometimes.
We seem to think we have a formidable team but we are a league 1 team for a reason, we have league 1 players with the exception of 1 or 2, I see some arguments that if we get promoted we'll just come straight back down with this team and manager, well wait and see, to me that stinks of disrespect to the rest of this division.
Hopkin will never win at this club because the fan base can't get over how bad we where last season. 
Bring in someone with experience...like Mcglynn, Hughes....that worked well, ok bring someone in that's young and HOPE they do a job like Jack Ross...like Burchill...it's a conveyer belt of managers at Livingston, we've done experienced, we've done young and enthusiastic, let's try stability for a change.

To address the point in bold first, I quite rightly gave him praise in September/October time when he appeared to have turned a corner and seemed to know how to set the team up right and make the right subs. Now, we have a situation where we're stacked with players in positions we were already strong in, resulting in us playing players out of position. You can't honestly say Crighton and Lithgow as the full backs will do us in any favours in the immediate future?

We've now played East Fife four times, and being realistic, we've not exactly looked better than them save for when they lost the plot in the home league match. We've got 1 tactic and three formations to suit it, it's not exactly winning plaudits for tantalising football but credit where it's due, we've dispatched our nearest challengers with ease. I'd also contest we've got 6 or 7 good Championship players, but it does remain to be seen whether Hopkin can learn as a manager in the next 4-5 months. He's been afforded a bit of a luxury in a sense this season, with a big budget in comparison to other teams.

I really don't understand the negativity towards Hopkin. We were not the only team to invest in our squad at the beginning of the season. Alloa and Airdrie made a fair few acquisitions as well. And yes, since then we have spent more than those around us, but he had us in a strong position long before we made overkill signings like Gallagher and Jacobs. He's done well to put us where we are and the fact that other would-be competitors have struggled to perform consistently doesn't change that.
How can you argue that Hopkin is making heavy weather of League One when we are nine points clear at the top with a game in hand?
The club already has a bad enough reputation for our revolving-door management policy. Why condemn the manager before he's even had a shot at the Championship with his own squad of players?

Unfortunately for Hopkin, he's the face of what's going on behind the scenes in some regards, so it's natural that supporters' frustrations are aimed at him, especially given what happened last season. He has the best starting XI and squad in the division, but he still hasn't deviated mostly from the core tactics. That's why we struggled against teams like EF and QP. As I said to Andy, he's been given a bit of a free pass this season, but he's not really shown he's got the managerial nous to help a weak side survive in the Championship.

[andylivi1]

No arguments on the Crighton, Lithgow debate, Lithgow playing LB infront of Longridge is a poor decision which will hopefully be rectified. I can understand why Crighton is playing at RB though, Halkett is a better CB and Crighton has a very decent cross on him. 

Id like to know your 6 or 7 championship quality players...Gallagher, Jacobs probably but both just signed, maybe Buchanan but after that we have players that failed at that level in the past, Longridge, Halkett, Pittman, Mullen all failed with us last season, Cadden hasn't played at that level, De Vita has been really poor since returned and think he'd struggle in the championship now, Byrne was free to leave a promoted Dunfermline which says to me they didn't see him making the step up. Josh Mullin played a bit of championship football last season but not enough to make judgement. We have a good squad of players for this level.

East Fife and Queens Park have proved very problematic this season no arguments, but maybe they are due some credit as well. 

It must be a nightmare to play at Livingston if you're a Livingston player, i go to all games home and away and the players look far more relaxed away from home, the teams coming to us must play on the negativity. 

I also posted about this in the cup thread but is our bog pitch got something to do with our poor play at home also, because we do generally play much better football away from home ? But that's taking away from the point. 

Hopkin has been given the task to get us promoted back to the championship, if we do that, and we are well on coarse to do that then he has succeeded, no matter what he has at his disposal, bigger and stronger teams have failed to do it over the last few years. Why should we have the right to just assume we can turn up each week and win easy. 

 

[Afro]

3 hours ago, andylivi1 said:

No arguments on the Crighton, Lithgow debate, Lithgow playing LB infront of Longridge is a poor decision which will hopefully be rectified. I can understand why Crighton is playing at RB though, Halkett is a better CB and Crighton has a very decent cross on him. 

Id like to know your 6 or 7 championship quality players...Gallagher, Jacobs probably but both just signed, maybe Buchanan but after that we have players that failed at that level in the past, Longridge, Halkett, Pittman, Mullen all failed with us last season, Cadden hasn't played at that level, De Vita has been really poor since returned and think he'd struggle in the championship now, Byrne was free to leave a promoted Dunfermline which says to me they didn't see him making the step up. Josh Mullin played a bit of championship football last season but not enough to make judgement. We have a good squad of players for this level.

East Fife and Queens Park have proved very problematic this season no arguments, but maybe they are due some credit as well. 

It must be a nightmare to play at Livingston if you're a Livingston player, i go to all games home and away and the players look far more relaxed away from home, the teams coming to us must play on the negativity. 

I also posted about this in the cup thread but is our bog pitch got something to do with our poor play at home also, because we do generally play much better football away from home ? But that's taking away from the point. 

Hopkin has been given the task to get us promoted back to the championship, if we do that, and we are well on coarse to do that then he has succeeded, no matter what he has at his disposal, bigger and stronger teams have failed to do it over the last few years. Why should we have the right to just assume we can turn up each week and win easy. 

 

 

Gallagher, Jacobs, Buchanan, Mullen, Pittman and Halkett are all Championship players. The class of the first two speak for themselves; Buchanan scored a barrel load of goals in a mediocre Alloa side, keeping them up, then netted a few for a woeful Livi side last season. Whilst Danny Mullen's had his injury problems, he's never really looked out of his depth in the second tier, and he's evidently too good for League 1. Pittman came in from a Junior side straight into our midfield and looked like he'd been playing professionally for years, I'll cut him a bit of slack for last season considering some of the dross he had in beside him, such as the headless chicken Hugo Faria and the kiddy-on Sergio Busquets, Mark Fotheringham. Same goes for Halkett, looked a decent player at Championship level despite having nutters like Darren Cole and Morgyn Neill alongside him. Whilst De Vita has been poor in his second spell so far, he was playing regularly for a Premiership team up until last summer. He's 29, so hardly time to write him off yet.

After that you've got guys like Cadden, Byrne, Mullin, Longridge etc. who maybe could be decent in the Championship, but either haven't showed it or haven't had the chance. The jury's out on the likes of them but it's hardly a squad of purely League 1-level jobbers.

I agree with you re: Almondvale though. With an atmosphere resembling a morgue most of the time and a pitch like a potato field it's no wonder the team can't wait to play away. The state of the pitch though is simply a by-product of a total lack of investment in the infrastructure of the club, it was inevitable given the way the "committee" were talking during the summer.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Can't fault Hopkin on his league performance this season, he's got us 9 points clear and beaten all 3 of our top 4 rivals every time we've played them. He's struggled against QP, EF and Rovers but I can get past that with us being comfortably top of the league.

Only problem I have with him this season is him stick Mullin and Longridge on the bench and playing Rafa and Lithgow in their positions, just doesn't make sense to me and he did the same last season with White being put on LM and was ending up crossing balls into the box for Buchanan!! That worries me for next season but we'll see what happens then, can only take one season at a time and he's doing more than enough to get the team promoted this season.

 

[fifer67]

Think your clutching at straws going on about away form and blaming your pitch. Your 2 performances at New Bayview were brutal and I can assure you if you can find a better playing surface in Scottish football I'd be surprised. What you'll find at this level of football is if you think you are billy big time and just have to turn up to win you'll be in for a few shocks. You have to win your battles on the pitch first before you can go on and win games. 

[andylivi1]

12 minutes ago, fifer67 said:

Think your clutching at straws going on about away form and blaming your pitch. Your 2 performances at New Bayview were brutal and I can assure you if you can find a better playing surface in Scottish football I'd be surprised. What you'll find at this level of football is if you think you are billy big time and just have to turn up to win you'll be in for a few shocks. You have to win your battles on the pitch first before you can go on and win games. 

I did say that in the cup thread that a few EF fans would think I was mental, we simply haven't played well against EF, that's a compliment to your team as they have obviously stopped us playing well.

I said in general we have played far better away from home, I don't think many Livi fans that watch us every week would disagree. 

[andylivi1]

On a side note, we missed out on a hefty pay day due to the defeat yesterday, we'd have been drawn away to Celtic