Livingston - all the threads merged

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, Livi said:

Why shouldn't we keep the behind the scenes / financials in the spotlight?  Its a shambles on all fronts past & present.
 

There are big court cases coming very soon and these cases could have big impact on the club.

 

Lets not sweep all this under the carpet.

Part of the shambles is due to the people you and Roger are white knighting as the good guys, blocking new investment into the club. We aren't likely to improve our situation till Hogarth and Rankine /Summers are gone.

Also, we all know about it, but both of you want to relentlessly post on here till you get everyone agreeing with you, and just keep going over old ground replying to anyone not buying into your narrative.

Edited December 15, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Livi]

52 minutes ago, Livi La Vida Loca said:

I mean you've just proved my point entirely. 

Just because people don't comment/get involved aggressively doesn't mean they aren't worried. I can't comment on it all because I don't have all the facts that doesn't mean the off field issues aren't troubling. 

Again you are pushing something, in my opinion, with a view to stir the pot. Perhaps nobody answered your question because we don't know. Do you expect everyone to reply individually confirming they don't know? 

I thought forums were for debate. Not sweeping things under the carpet. Whether it be plaudits, criticism or whatever.

 

Using the logic you have used about off field challenges should we stop commenting on the team's performance every week. We don't really know all the facts surrounding why some players are picked and why some players are benched? 
 

If you dislike certain posts You of course could stay silent and just ignore the posts you don't want to engage in? No one is telling you must engage or repond?
 

I see you have used some emotive words in your last post. Was that deliberate ?    

[Livi]

2 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Part of the shambles is due to the people you and Roger are white knighting as the good guys, blocking new investment into the club. We aren't likely to improve our situation till Hogarth and Rankine /Summers are gone.

Also, we all know about it, but both of you want to relentlessly post on here till you get everyone agreeing with you, and just keep going over old ground replying to anyone not buying into your narrative.

I haven't white knighted anyone. Thats just your perception.

Have you read my posts? 

[RandomGuy.]

23 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Part of the shambles is due to the people you and Roger are white knighting as the good guys, blocking new investment into the club. We aren't likely to improve our situation till Hogarth and Rankine /Summers are gone.

Also, we all know about it, but both of you want to relentlessly post on here till you get everyone agreeing with you, and just keep going over old ground replying to anyone not buying into your narrative.

As an outsider its pretty clear that one (or both) of the posters is, or is incredibly close to, Hogarth or Rankine, as theyve slipped a few times and given details that only those involved in the court proceedings would know, while also heavily suggesting they know other things but framing it as a question.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Just now, Livi said:

I haven't white knighted anyone. Thats just your perception.

Have you read my posts? 

Roger certainly has, and you both work like a tag team joining in with the get rid of Ward and Martindale campaign. It's difficult to tell at times, if certain posters with the same agenda are separate accounts. Nixon was known for going to the press to stir up trouble for Livi owners, and going on Livi forums under different Pseudonyms too, and there have been many new accounts with anti Livi agendas, all claiming to be Livi fans, those experiences leave you with a bit of cynicism.   

we've been through 2 admins and several more changes in ownership, where the old incumbents hang around causing trouble because they've invested money in director loans to prop up the club under their stewardship, and want their loans repaid. Which is fair enough (wanting their loans back part), but the present board are trying to bring in new investment, Hogarth and Summers blocking it isn't very helpful.

Anyway this is all tedious for other posters, so i'll opt out of keeping this going, there are several pages of us all going nowhere with this discussion. 

 

[Livi]

So are you back tracking based on your last post? 

48 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Roger certainly has, and you both work like a tag team joining in with the get rid of Ward and Martindale

 

 

I can honestly say i have no idea who Roger is or have never knowingly spoken to them.

 

lots of assumptions being thrown about on here by various posters.
 

 I have an issue with the current people running Livi FC i have had issue with previous owners of Livi FC too at points. How much have Ward and Martindale invested in the club - simple question? 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Livi

[Freedom Farter]

If anyone reading is unsure of what's going on but wants to know, its explained here:

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20230818/283098483626710

 

A coterie of arseholes were unfortunately able to get their foot in the ownership door at a time when the club was at a low ebb. Under the stewardship of Ward, the club's fortunes were improved dramatically and that coterie now realise they're sitting on something they can personally profit from. Their greed, ego and stupidity is currently stymying club financial progress. We can see by the comments in this thread from their advocates here that this coterie is now characterised by spiteful recalcitrance, that they're now beyond reason or rapproach, and that they're intent on dragging the club down with them.

This would all be and indeed was all very obvious to the vast majority of Livi fans in recent years. However, unfortunately things have gone to shit on the pitch recently which has caused fan frustration with Ward and Martindale for that reason. The coterie are looking to take advantage of this recent fan unrest over on-pitch matters and steer it instead into anger at off-pitch matters in service of their personal aims.

None of which is to say that Ward's running of the club shouldn't be vigilantly monitored by fans. It must always be and criticised where necessary. Just know who these guys you're reading are and where their priorities lie.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Freedom Farter

[Roger the cabin boy]

2 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Part of the shambles is due to the people you and Roger are white knighting as the good guys, blocking new investment into the club. We aren't likely to improve our situation till Hogarth and Rankine /Summers are gone.

 

Ward, and Cullen are trying to sell the Shareholders' business without their consent. It's that simple, and that's why the sale has been blocked by court interdict after recent petition - It's up to OppCo (Ward, Cullen) to defend their 'sale' now.

Directors of a company work for their shareholders and must conduct business in the best interests of these shareholders. At the end of the day that's the law, whether you like it or not.

Mcilvogue is not providing investment, so I wouldn't worry about it. He's had since September to outline what he's actually going to do to *invest* in the club and  how much he's investing. Underwriting this season's losses and finding new sources of revenue isn't investment.

 

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

As an outsider its pretty clear that one (or both) of the posters is, or is incredibly close to, Hogarth or Rankine, as theyve slipped a few times 

As sly as a fox I am...

On 13/12/2023 at 11:49, Roger the cabin boy said:

I have it On good authority from Hogarth and directors from the time. What more do you want? 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Roger the cabin boy

[Roger the cabin boy]

7 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

If anyone reading is unsure of what's going on but wants to know, its explained here:

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20230818/283098483626710

 

A coterie of arseholes were unfortunately able to get their foot in the ownership door at a time when the club was at a low ebb. Under the stewardship of Ward, the club's fortunes were improved dramatically and that coterie now realise they're sitting on something they can personally profit from. Their greed, ego and stupidity is currently stymying club financial progress. We can see by the comments in this thread from their advocates here that this coterie is now characterised by spiteful recalcitrance, that they're now beyond reason or rapproach, and that they're intent on dragging the club down with them.

This would all be and indeed was all very obvious to the vast majority of Livi fans in recent years. However, unfortunately things have gone to shit on the pitch recently which has caused fan frustration with Ward and Martindale for that reason. The coterie are looking to take advantage of this recent fan unrest over on-pitch matters and steer it instead into anger at off-pitch matters in service of their personal aims.

None of which is to say that Ward's running of the club shouldn't be vigilantly monitored by fans. It must always be and criticised where necessary. Just know who these guys you're reading are and where their priorities lie.

who stuck a 20p in you?

[Freedom Farter]

6 minutes ago, Roger the cabin boy said:

who stuck a 20p in you?

Does your dad teach you these clever lines while you kiss him at night?

[Roger the cabin boy]

10 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

Does your dad teach you these clever lines while you kiss him at night?

what?

[Roger the cabin boy]

4 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

If anyone reading is unsure of what's going on but wants to know, its explained here

Yes, nothing fishy going on…

Offer for 400k rejected, then all of a sudden a sale to another party has occurred at that same figure? Makes sense.

These snippets speak for themselves.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Roger the cabin boy

[Livi]

3 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

Under the stewardship of Ward, the club's fortunes were improved dramatically 

 

This made me smile.

Take it the good stewardship has run out with over £1m losses under his stewardship over the last 2 years when he's been flying solo with Martindale.

Why would you sell out on what would seem to be on the cheap and not move on ? 

[ATLIS]

13 hours ago, Alert Mongoose said:

I'm trying to follow this story but I need it in simple terms of who the 'good guys' and 'bad guys' are? Is such a scenario possible?

A few random accounts on here spouting nonsense, using their 'insider' information from two individuals that Livi are in court with. They're basically trying to unsettle the Livi support while trying to make Rankine and Hogarth out as the 'good guys'. 

Rankine has been chasing the club for debts owed to him, it was ruled to be repayable when affordable yet he keeps dragging it back into court if we sell a player or get a cup tie against Rangers/Celtic - despite this we're still not in a position to pay it back. 

Hogarth took money out the club during COVID to keep his other businesses afloat, the club had accountants going through the books and that was shown up as irregular. The club took him to court over it, it was sent back to the lawyers to reformat the case as it was essentially presented in a nonsense way - still ongoing. 

Both, as far as I know, are halting the takeover by McIlvogue and stopping further investment coming into the club (club is apparently being sold for 400k, value seems a bit low compared to other clubs). McIlvogue however has promised to underwrite any losses from this season and give the club a stronger foothold, every chance Rankine and Hogarth push forward in trying to kill the club by stopping more investment coming in. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by ATLIS

[Alert Mongoose]

6 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

A few random accounts on here spouting nonsense, using their 'insider' information from two individuals that Livi are in court with. They're basically trying to unsettle the Livi support while trying to make Rankine and Hogarth out as the 'good guys'. 

Rankine has been chasing the club for debts owed to him, it was ruled to be repayable when affordable yet he keeps dragging it back into court if we sell a player or get a cup tie against Rangers/Celtic - despite this we're still not in a position to pay it back. 

Hogarth took money out the club during COVID to keep his other businesses afloat, the club had accountants going through the books and that was shown up as irregular. The club took him to court over it, it was sent back to the lawyers to reformat the case as it was essentially presented in a nonsense way - still ongoing. 

Both, as far as I know, are halting the takeover by McIlvogue and stopping further investment coming into the club (club is apparently being sold for 400k, value seems a bit low compared to other clubs). McIlvogue however has promised to underwrite any losses from this season and give the club a stronger foothold, every chance Rankine and Hogarth push forward in trying to kill the club by stopping more investment coming in. 

I like the cut of your jib. So;

Bad Guys; Rankine, Hogarth.

Good Guys; McIlvogue.

Is that a fair summary?

[ATLIS]

7 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

I like the cut of your jib. So;

Bad Guys; Rankine, Hogarth.

Good Guys; McIlvogue.

Is that a fair summary?

McIlvogue is unknown at this point but he's offered to come in underwrite losses and put a bit of investment in. Previous brownie points for being the guy that saved Mortons Rolls. Livi fans as always, will, and should be sceptical of any new owners.

Rankine and Hogarth at this point, aye, in the eyes of your normal Livi fan are the bad guys. Rankine the long term villain. 

John Ward came into the club when we went to League 1, made the decision to keep us full time and got us back to running on a hard line stance of 'no operating losses'. Basically oversaw us going from League 1 to Premiership and was involved in a lot of the business in getting us ready for that step up. Eyes of most Livi fans he's a good guy, or the good guy. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by ATLIS

[crispy]

This thread is pretty bleak at the moment. We’ve had a great few years for a tiny club. You wouldn’t think that reading back (the pages that I didn’t skip).

[ATLIS]

57 minutes ago, crispy said:

This thread is pretty bleak at the moment. We’ve had a great few years for a tiny club. You wouldn’t think that reading back (the pages that I didn’t skip).

It's only bleak because 2-3 accounts are making it bleak. In all reality it's one person with multiple accounts spreading doom and gloom

[Livi]

8 hours ago, ATLIS said:

A few random accounts on here spouting nonsense, using their 'insider' information from two individuals that Livi are in court with. 

The irony of this comment is there for all to see. I have no insider information.

Given the history of the club if Livi fans are not unsettled with over £1m of losses over last few years then not sure what would unsettle them. We know business people don't just come in and put their hands in their pockets and wipe the debt away.

Despite asking the question several times none of the insiders have answered it. How much ££££'s has Ward and  Martindale invested in Livi FC?  

[Roger the cabin boy]

9 hours ago, ATLIS said:

further investment coming into the club

9 hours ago, ATLIS said:

McIlvogue however has promised to underwrite any losses from this season and give the club a stronger foothold

That’s not investment.

9 hours ago, ATLIS said:

Hogarth took money out the club during COVID to keep his other businesses afloat, the club had accountants going through the books and that was shown up as irregula

Considering the fact that he took his money in December 2019, he’s either Nostradamus or you’re talking shite. He also left the club pre-covid.

 

9 hours ago, ATLIS said:

The club took him to court over it, it was sent back to the lawyers to reformat the case as it was essentially presented in a nonsense way - still ongoing. 

False.

Their case was thrown out, now they’re paying Hogarth’s fees. They failed after 6+ months to provide anything of substance, despite numerous opportunities to amend their case… A forensic accountant report might have been very useful for livi… however no mention of one at all in the court case, tells you something

9 hours ago, ATLIS said:

despite this we're still not in a position to pay it back

What do you know lol? 

 

Anyway, 200k+ spent chasing hogarth in court, only to lose.

200k+ spent in court running away from rankine over money he’s owed.

And if Rankine wins, you’re getting close to another £1m loss for the club.
 

Great Stewardship, bravo John Ward.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Roger the cabin boy