Livingston - all the threads merged

[Freedom Farter]

Thoughts on yesterday:

Devlin didn't have the acceleration to match Hamilton's run for the goal. Devlin also lost the header to Hamilton that put Connolly clean through in the second half. That lack of pace and aerial vulnerability has been apparent with Devlin all season yet he's captain so plays whenever available. This is a concern.

George's positioning was poor for the goal. He was in a No Man's Land when he likely would've saved it had he stayed closer to his line. 

At right wing back in the 3-4-2-1, MacKay is forced to stay wide when attacking and just look to cross. Whereas at right mid in the 4-2-3-1  he's allowed to make the runs into the centre forward area we saw yesterday. One of those runs yesterday saw him get on the ball in the box to the left of the goal. He then provided a low cut back from the byline for Stephen Kelly to shoot over. Kelly had come infield from his wing to be there just as McKay had done. They could both do that because Sangare and Brandon were overlapping them from full back, therefore maintaining the attacking width. 

MacKay's goal also came from that same run into the centre forward area with Stephen Kelly crossing perfectly for him from the left. That Anderson was on the pitch rather than Guthrie was important. Anderson much better facilitates that line of three attacking midfielders behind the forward. His movement, passing and touch are excellent. He also knows to move into a channel at times, deliberately vacating the centre forward space for the attacking midfielders to run into. Guthrie makes sense in the 3-4-2-1 where the centre forward is left isolated but in the 4-2-3-1, Anderson is your man. 

Sangare was good. First half the build up was what we've seen most of the season where one of the wide centre backs effectively acts as playmaker. Occasionally that's been Montano dribbling out but more often its been someone lofting long aerial passes to Guthrie's head. First half yesterday it was Sangare and he was actually whipping in passes to the attacking midfielders at times, especially Shinnie who was taking up clever positions. Once we moved to the 4-2-3-1, Sangare did very well and showed shades of Montano with a couple of driving dribbles. A couple of good first half corner deliveries from him too. He's young and contracted beyond this season so Martindale should be trying to make him a regular.

Brandon was great. His goal was crucial. Second half, he at one point won the ball back when pressing then combined with Anderson (I think) before putting over a perfect cross for Stephen Kelly. 

It was an encouraging performance. Of particular note was the calm response to conceding early and missing a penalty. The 4-2-3-1 is a must for home matches we're looking to win and should really be the default formation anyway. MacKay, Bradley and Anderson bring attacking exuberance. Stephen Kelly, Yengi and Shinnie bring creativity. Pittman and Holt bring steel. Then there's the flying full backs Brandon and Penrice. 

Edited January 22 by Freedom Farter

[LIVIFOREVER]

I can't imagine Hamilton has suddenly got faster since leaving us, and he had absolutely no pace at all, can remember him having a 5 yard start on an Aberdeen player and got caught before he'd run 10 yards, so shows just how slow Devlin is, to be beat for pace by Hamilton, fucking hell.

[Freedom Farter]

He went off injured yesterday, of course. Then no Obileye either. I've no idea on their statuses and both or at least one of them could yet be available for Dundee. If not and we're down to two centre backs for it, Donnellan and Nottingham, that would at least force the 4-2-3-1.

[LIVIFOREVER]

58 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

He went off injured yesterday, of course. Then no Obileye either. I've no idea on their statuses and both or at least one of them could yet be available for Dundee. If not and we're down to two centre backs for it, Donnellan and Nottingham, that would at least force the 4-2-3-1.

Yeah i bemoaned our injury crisis earlier, but it actually forces Martindale into playing Kelly, Brandon and MacKay, and if Guthrie is out, Anderson will start too, and having us in a formation where we can score goals, getting the best out of those players.

[Freedom Farter]

42 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Yeah i bemoaned our injury crisis earlier, but it actually forces Martindale into playing Kelly, Brandon and MacKay, and if Guthrie is out, Anderson will start too, and having us in a formation where we can score goals, getting the best out of those players.

That's Devlin and Montaño definitely out for Dundee and County then. Probably Obileye, Bradley and Yengi will all be out too. I expect both Guthrie and Sangare will be ok. For possible other players that can come into the squad, maybe Welch-Hayes. So some disappointing potential absences but its manageable.

Edited January 22 by Freedom Farter

[ATLIS]

Martindale confirmed that Teto has returned to South Africa, would imagine that's the end of that. Unsure if that means we're just releasing him or if he's back trying to find a loan there now.

[Freedom Farter]

Looking at transfers this window, its been a real case of like for like. Donnellan is a right-sided centre back with good mobility who's comfortable in possession. So that's replacing De Lucas. Then Yengi is an obvious replacement for the outgoing Nouble. Similar physical attributes, playing style and tactical profile. 

My guess for Martindale's next signing is another like for like move but this time to replace an injured rather than departed player. Sean Kelly has a groin injury we were told and that can mean something long term like a sports hernia. So an experienced holding centre mid with a good passing range is what'll be wanted. The Halliday approach failed but Quirin Moll might still be signed. Perhaps the Nouble transfer needs to happen first to free up the funds.

Beyond that, I'd guess that if there was to be one more signing it could be a wide attacker late in the window, maybe just on loan. Especially if the 4-2-3-1 starts getting used more and Bahamboula can be moved on.

Having to loan McGovern due to Jack Hamilton's injury (out for an estimated two months) hopefully hasn't come at much cost.

Edited January 22 by Freedom Farter

[LIVIFOREVER]

Kelly was certainly playing like he had a groin injury, noticed he was very slow turning and moving, even slower than usual. 

 

Could do with Penrice being fully fit, thought we were well covered at LB/LWB with him and Montano, now both are injured, last thing we want though is playing an injured Penrice and it making his injury worse.

[Livi La Vida Loca]

17 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Kelly was certainly playing like he had a groin injury, noticed he was very slow turning and moving, even slower than usual. 

 

Could do with Penrice being fully fit, thought we were well covered at LB/LWB with him and Montano, now both are injured, last thing we want though is playing an injured Penrice and it making his injury worse.

Was not happy with Sangare playing CB or LB but I thought he was pretty good at LB. The injury to Penrice makes it more understandable. Sangare was incredibly similar to Montano with how he drove forward and he's got a good range of passing. 

Not a fan of square pegs round holes but Sangare is good cover for injuries at LB if we can improve his defensive positioning.

[LiviLion]

11 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

Devlin didn't have the acceleration to match Hamilton's run for the goal. Devlin also lost the header to Hamilton that put Connolly clean through in the second half. That lack of pace and aerial vulnerability has been apparent with Devlin all season yet he's captain so plays whenever available. This is a concern.

Also quick to blame and shout at everyone else around him, really winding me up.

 

Based on the last few games, I think Martindale's current "thing" is the 3-4-2-1 to start, then switching to 4-2-3-1 (or 4-4-2) some time in the second half. I'm not sure if that's deliberate and he's trying to go back to when he would change shape during the game to be 'unpredictable', or if he's adamant the 3-4-2-1 will work but then has to change it when it doesn't. As mentioned ideally we could start with the 4-2-3-1, but I'm worried his plan is starting the 3 atb to keep things tight then changing to something more attacking later on to chase the win/draw.

Edited January 22 by LiviLion

[Livi]

Think Davie should chuck pre and post match interviews.
 

Just let Rice handle it.

In recent times Davie has been a loose cannon in terms of his messages.
 

Rice was open and frank and said it all in under 4mins on Saturday

[crispy]

3 hours ago, Livi said:

Think Davie should chuck pre and post match interviews.
 

Just let Rice handle it.

In recent times Davie has been a loose cannon in terms of his messages.
 

Rice was open and frank and said it all in under 4mins on Saturday

Lovebombing, I think that’s the phrase the kids use for this unrelenting support for Livi on and off the park.

[Livi]

44 minutes ago, crispy said:

Lovebombing, I think that’s the phrase the kids use for this unrelenting support for Livi on and off the park.

Just stating an opinion. Sorry for doing that.

i stand by my opinion regardless of what you think.

Edited January 22 by Livi

[Freedom Farter]

6 hours ago, LiviLion said:

Based on the last few games, I think Martindale's current "thing" is the 3-4-2-1 to start, then switching to 4-2-3-1 (or 4-4-2) some time in the second half. I'm not sure if that's deliberate and he's trying to go back to when he would change shape during the game to be 'unpredictable', or if he's adamant the 3-4-2-1 will work but then has to change it when it doesn't. As mentioned ideally we could start with the 4-2-3-1, but I'm worried his plan is starting the 3 atb to keep things tight then changing to something more attacking later on to chase the win/draw.

You're right, there's definitely a bit of that, only switching to the 4-2-3-1 once we're a goal down.

Something else Martindale likes to do which is quite common nowadays is to always have one more centre back than the opposition have forwards. Raith were actually themselves playing a 3-4-2-1 on Saturday with Mullin and Vaughan behind Hamilton. So because they only had one striker rather than the two that Martindale was expecting, he was comfortable to go to just two centre backs and bring on MacKay. Then second half when Dylan Easton came on, Raith moved Vaughan up front alongside Hamilton. Martindale kept the back four but he got Sangare to stop overlapping Stephen Kelly and instead to play much more conservatively and stay narrow near his centre back (Nottingham). That was to try and stop Raith doing us on the counter with their front two. You might've noticed Sangare suddenly started winning loads of headers as he was positioned more inside left channel rather than out wide at left back, Raith's long passes forwards were going straight to him. That change ended up working in attack for us too. With Sangare no longer overlapping that forced Stephen Kelly to hold the width on the left. That meant he was there to cross from that wide left area for MacKay to score.

On MacKay, there's no player in the squad who benefits more from the 4-2-3-1 as it frees him up so much compared to the 3-4-2-1.

[Durnford]

Sometime I wonder if our chances of getting loan player recently could have taken a bit of a dip in England due the the bad impression that artificial pitches seem to have there. Not long ago it seemed we were getting loan player from Liverpool; West Brom; Birmingham and Crystal Palace to name but a few; none of those avenues appear open at the moment?

[ATLIS]

16 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Sometime I wonder if our chances of getting loan player recently could have taken a bit of a dip in England due the the bad impression that artificial pitches seem to have there. Not long ago it seemed we were getting loan player from Liverpool; West Brom; Birmingham and Crystal Palace to name but a few; none of those avenues appear open at the moment?

I doubt it, I think the fact that very few of the loans were actually decent put an end to us using that avenue as a viable recruitment technique 

[CharlieWhisky]

22 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Sometime I wonder if our chances of getting loan player recently could have taken a bit of a dip in England due the the bad impression that artificial pitches seem to have there. Not long ago it seemed we were getting loan player from Liverpool; West Brom; Birmingham and Crystal Palace to name but a few; none of those avenues appear open at the moment?

If I was the Nottingham Forest manager, for example, I wouldn’t want to send one of my young players into the potentially toxic and damaging environment of a team miles adrift at the bottom of the league. Forest probably train on Astro three times a week at this time of year like everyone else, I don’t think the pitch would be a factor.

 

We had quite a few players on loan a couple of years ago who did very little and probably didn’t get much from Livi.. words gets around.. Adam Lewis, Seb Soto, Caleb Chukwuemeka etc.

 

 

Edited January 22 by CharlieWhisky

[Cptn Hooch]

I would imagine our budget constraints would have the most impact on bringing in loans from bigger sides. These players from Liverpool, West Brom will still be on much higher wages than we can afford (even if it's only a percentage we're expected to pay). I'm sure martindale would prefer a young, up and coming keeper on loan from Sheffield United or something but we've had to go for a 39 year old Mike McGovern from Hearts

[ATLIS]

4 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I would imagine our budget constraints would have the most impact on bringing in loans from bigger sides. These players from Liverpool, West Brom will still be on much higher wages than we can afford (even if it's only a percentage we're expected to pay). I'm sure martindale would prefer a young, up and coming keeper on loan from Sheffield United or something but we've had to go for a 39 year old Mike McGovern from Hearts

Part of me thinks bringing in McGovern is the right profile, played at the top level for good teams. Experienced and has been in a few relegation battles whilst still playing at international tournaments. He's got that level of experience that is vital in a relegation battle even if he isn't on the park. 

I don't want to talk down to Maley but he's probably very underqualified to be a Premiership goalkeeping coach and Shamal looks to have regressed since arriving. If he can get some quality and experienced passed down to Shamal then that's a bonus. 

[crispy]

I agree that some of the loan players haven’t added much. Given that, it feels risky to trust the fate of our club with players who might only be around for a couple of months. Don’t think the league position has been as perilous before.