Freedom Farter Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 13 minutes ago, crispy said: Personally, I thought the level of abuse at the game yesterday was a bit over the top, as angry as I was. Did anyone hear the exact shout around when Montaño came over? It sounded like “you [something] b*****d!”. Unsure who the shout was directed to. Hopefully not him. He attacked well down his flank yesterday and could be good in the Championship if he can be retained. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozam76 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 19 minutes ago, crispy said: Personally, I thought the level of abuse at the game yesterday was a bit over the top, as angry as I was. Did anyone hear the exact shout around when Montaño came over? It sounded like “you [something] b*****d!”. Unsure who the shout was directed to. All of the shouts I heard yesterday were against the manager. I don’t recall too many, if any, individual things aimed at players. The stuff aimed at the manager was pretty brutal. It’s subjective as to whether it’s over the top or not. It’s not stuff I would say, but I don’t have fire in me to get that het up about it. If Hastie thinks it is out of order then fair enough. That’s his opinion. Where he is wrong is when he says that fans shouldn’t question losses. That’s wilder than the Serengeti. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 15 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said: Hopefully not him. He attacked well down his flank yesterday and could be good in the Championship if he can be retained. Yea, in that first half he had some good deliveries. I actually thought we would nick a goal yesterday. Can see how Hibs concede. On the abuse directed at the manager, I was debating whether to ask those shouting to give it a rest. They’d more than made their point and I was getting fed up listening to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Freedom Farter said: Subbing Bradley after 37 minutes was rotten. That's a young player contracted for next season whose confidence we want to grow not diminish. I thought he was a complete waste of space yesterday but can see your point. If Bradley has not built up some muscle mass by the start of next season, we should be getting rid. He's brought very little to the table after his first 4/5 games last season. He's not fast, he has a poor final ball and is way too lightweight. At least one of those three has to give for him to be anywhere near this level. Edited March 17 by EdinburghLivi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Just now, EdinburghLivi said: I thought he was a complete waste of space yesterday but can see your point. If Bradley has not built up some muscle mass by the start of next season, we should be getting rid. He's brought very little to the table after his first 4/5 games last season. He's not fast, he has a poor final ball and is way too lightweight. One of those has to give for him to be anywhere near this level. I don't disagree with that assessment of the player but I was more meaning to highlight Martindale's erratic selection of Bradley. Puts him in and out the team seemingly without much rationale to it. Martindale has done this with a few players. The big stupid squads of the last three seasons has allowrd for it and its not a policy I've liked. Keeping players anxious about their place in the team I don't think is as effective as giving them security. I always remember the 19/20 season when Lyndon Dykes had no squad competition for his place, Menga had been punted. I think Dykes benefitted from that constant selection by Gary Holt especially early on when still finding his feet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozam76 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 49 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said: I thought he was a complete waste of space yesterday but can see your point. If Bradley has not built up some muscle mass by the start of next season, we should be getting rid. He's brought very little to the table after his first 4/5 games last season. He's not fast, he has a poor final ball and is way too lightweight. At least one of those three has to give for him to be anywhere near this level. I’m glad you mentioned his early performances. There were signs of a very good player in those games - always played with his head up, took the ball on the half turn beautifully. It could be as simple as confidence for him, and indeed a few others. We’re a deathly quiet team and the way the heads went down after 7 minutes yesterday was a real worry. Getting pumped regularly and having a manager with an erratic way of picking a team will obvious not help. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 1 hour ago, crispy said: Personally, I thought the level of abuse at the game yesterday was a bit over the top, as angry as I was. Did anyone hear the exact shout around when Montaño came over? It sounded like “you [something] b*****d!”. Unsure who the shout was directed to. 1 hour ago, crispy said: Yea, in that first half he had some good deliveries. I actually thought we would nick a goal yesterday. Can see how Hibs concede. On the abuse directed at the manager, I was debating whether to ask those shouting to give it a rest. They’d more than made their point and I was getting fed up listening to it. It has been like that since last season when we were on a bad run of away results, same guys shouting all the abuse, but some younger ones have joined in now. Personally i find it annoying and a bit embarrassing for Livi's reputation as a 'family club'. I remember our fans being pretty witty with the shouts, and it being a good laugh going to away games, just feels different the last couple of seasons, and not just because we're shite, we've been shite a lot of times over the many years i've followed Livi. I'm actually wondering why they go to away games, they seem to hate it so much and moan and shout abuse for most of the game, wouldn't be out of place supporting Sevco. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durnford Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 2 hours ago, The Wrong Car said: The minute he started comparing a football club and supermarkets, and calling fans customers he’d lost the argument Effectively we are customers or punters or whatever its called. Comparing an "entertainment" industry element to a retail company is a bit more of a stretch. For a start within the retail sector you have rights concerning quality of service and goods. Within our "contract" of sale with the club (or any other live performance entertainment). Unlike car-sales for example where you have a variety of rights; post sales warranty etc. we have nothing other than X number of games are going to be held. We have no recourse of the quality of players actually turning out for the game (there could presumably even fill the team with reserves or youngsters); there is no guarantee as to results or league position etc. Our strongest and principally only comeback is footfall. In principle Pay-at-the-gates punters represent the biggest commercial impact from results/performance. Season ticket holders unfortunately don't have that control mid-season having already paid their money. Unfortunately, except for some category A games, the demand for PATG home tickets seem almost invisible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durnford Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 58 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said: I thought he was a complete waste of space yesterday but can see your point. If Bradley has not built up some muscle mass by the start of next season, we should be getting rid. He's brought very little to the table after his first 4/5 games last season. He's not fast, he has a poor final ball and is way too lightweight. At least one of those three has to give for him to be anywhere near this level. Thought the attack down both wings yesterday was particularly poor but the right wing seemed to be the worst. I've liked Bradley in the past but he seemed to have virtually no application yesterday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 It's possible Bradley had the bug and while he thought he was recovered enough to play perhaps Martindale, who sees these players every day, noticed Bradley was struggling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 2 hours ago, Freedom Farter said: It's possible Bradley had the bug and while he thought he was recovered enough to play perhaps Martindale, who sees these players every day, noticed Bradley was struggling. You've got to think a lot of the players were still recovering from it, i mean Hibs are decent with good attacking players, but they're not as good as we made them look yesterday, playing through us like prime Brazil. We looked lackluster and weren't tracking runners or closing players down, just letting them run rings around us for those 3 goals, lucky we didn't concede more too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Aye, there's probably something in that. Livi were definitely more off it than you'd have reasonably expected and there seemed a lack of energy. Although I wouldn't take anything away from Hibs. For example, Youan assisted two of their goals yesterday and that's not new, he ran us ragged at Almondvale last season. Also the same players who impressed yesterday - Youan along with Maolida, Le Fondre and Newell - had also been Hibs' stand outs in their match last Wednesday. So we met them when they're in excellent form. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 For me, it was fucked this season from the 0-2 defeat at home to Dundee in late October. Our away form began with the win at Hibs but the following three performances were poor - fortunate draws at St Johnstone and County then a comprehensive defeat at Killie. Our home results and performances had been good, draws with Aberdeen and St Mirren which we could've won then a comfortable win over Motherwell, but it all changed in that Dundee match. My two criticisms of Martindale are that he's too experimental and that he's too indulgent of favoured players. Sean Kelly was moved to centre mid for that Dundee match in place of Shinnie, who'd started the season well. Martindale sees a very different player with Sean Kelly to the one I see. Bradley was also randomly brought in for that Dundee match. A winger, he was used as a centre-right attacking mid and much like Nouble, who was trying and failing to do the same role next to him, he was ill-suited. MacKay was wasted at right wing back. That Nouble was later in the season also wasted in that position added to the farce. Anderson was left marooned up front because we had wing backs rather than wingers. That left him without the high wide support he thrives off of. From reading the last few pages of comments, there seems to be three broad categories of Martindale Out folk: 1. Those who primarily want Ward out and given he comes as a pair with Martindale, that means Martindale too. My response there is I don't know enough about the ownership situation to have a firm stance. 2. Those who want Martindale out because they don't like him for non-football reasons, especially owing to views on criminal rehabilitation. My response to that is I'm respectful of the stance but I'm not personally motivated by this. 3. Those who want him removed for solely football reasons. This is where my focus lies. I'd urge caution as there's a possibility of cutting off our nose to spite our face here. There's a strong feeling that Martindale must be punished for the shite we've had to endure this season. That'd provide catharsis but what followed could then be worse. The question is next season and what management set up is best placed to get success in the Championship. Staying as is, moving Martindale to DoF with a new manager, or removing Martindale altogether for both a new manager and new DoF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 There we go, more truth coming out regarding Hogarth. No doubt the random accounts on here will jump to his defence and have some answer for it. Maybe they'll just call it lies, who knows? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 @ATLIS As an outsider looking in can you please explain what’s going on? Those statements on Twatter seem kinda crazy. Not sure that’s the right way to go about things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieWhisky Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Every time he has a drink he’s picking fights on Twitter. Usually rangers fans or Tories. This time it’s an ex director. Popcorn at the ready, the night is young! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger the cabin boy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 3 minutes ago, Molotov said: @ATLIS As an outsider looking in can you please explain what’s going on? Those statements on Twatter seem kinda crazy. Not sure that’s the right way to go about things. court case on the horizon, fans calling for him and martindale to walk …pressure is getting to the man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 2 minutes ago, Molotov said: @ATLIS As an outsider looking in can you please explain what’s going on? Those statements on Twatter seem kinda crazy. Not sure that’s the right way to go about things. You'll probably have noticed the loads of new-ish accounts that have been posting on here, a few are up to 200 odd posts I think probably now. A lot of it stems from boardroom issues between John Ward vs Rankine + Hogarth. The club had debts to Rankine where he put money in to keep the club afloat, around 200-300k, but he's also been found out in court to be double and triple accounting the figures he's put in. He suddenly claimed the club owed him almost 1m, turns out it was only the 200-300k. Hogarth seems to be siding with Rankine and trying to get control of the club. We apparently had John McIlvogue come in and take over (the guy that saved Morton's Rolls) and apparently the plan was then to help get Americans to come in and invest - it was all put on hold with a new share issue though. Rankine/Hogarth/Sumner (who by all accounts is another front for Rankine) disputed the takeover and the creation of new shares to dilute their stake. A lot of this is about 3 or 4 cases, 2 have been heard with more to come. One was the Rankine double/triple accounting and the other one Livi's legal team seem to have made an arse of it but it still has to be fully sorted with another case to come. Seemed to revolve around Hogarth taking a cheque out the safe and giving himself money from the club without running it by anyone else, it was in the middle of COVID and it was apparently used to keep his other businesses afloat. All these court cases are draining money from the club, the away cup game to Celtic money will basically just go straight to helping legal costs. Apparently the budget was cut 30% going into this season when it was already the lowest in the league. Most of the new accounts on here are trying to turn fans against current folk trying to steer the club in the right direction so they can drain money out of the club as they've done in the past. This seems to be Ward finally giving fans some answers and clarity over the subject. There was meant to be a fans forum held by our supporters group but that was cancelled (mainly because there's no one running it and hasn't been for years, just inactive). That was meant to be where we'd heard from John Ward and fans could get a direction to pull in. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogelio el Chico de Cabino Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 1 minute ago, ATLIS said: but he's also been found out in court to be double and triple accounting the figures he's put in That’s a lie considering it never was never weighed in court. 3 minutes ago, ATLIS said: was in the middle of COVID and it was apparently used to keep his other businesses afloat Hogarth took his money in December 2019… pre covid. 4 minutes ago, ATLIS said: All these court cases are draining money from the club, the away cup game to Celtic money will basically just go straight to helping legal costs. Apparently the budget was cut 30% going into this season when it was already the lowest in the league. John and Martindale’s fault for trying to take the ownership of the club from the shareholders. Their fault for pursuing hogarth and losing the court case. 5 minutes ago, ATLIS said: This seems to be Ward finally giving fans some answers and clarity over the subject He’s clearly on the sauce and can’t handle the pressure lol christ that was easy to debunk - tell John not to waste so much of his time typing all this stuff up for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogelio el Chico de Cabino Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ATLIS said: apparently the plan was then to help get Americans to come in and invest That’s not what they were telling fans? Mcilvogue was touted as investment in interviews and press…. or have we always been at war with Eurasia? Edited March 17 by Rogelio el Chico de Cabino 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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