Livingston - all the threads merged

[placidcasual]

Can i just make a plea to Livi to stay out of bother until nearer the start of next season? Would rather Airdrie stayed down rather than being bailed out again.

Also if you get the 10 point deduction then the cushion would be very helpful to our survival next season

I'd rather Airdrie stayed up. We'd be guaranteed 9th at the very worst.

[Guest]

Once-up-on-a-time millions of people believed the world was flat, because someone told them it was.

Have Hegarty and Robertson said publicly that they haven't had any money, I haven't seen mention of it.

I suppose the outcome of any proceedings will depend on LFC's defence, no-one seems to know what they have been accused of?

Have Italians always been in charge at Livi because the culture has never changed?

Oh I'd say the "Massone is a good guy and has been bankrolling us so back him" brigade are far more likely to be members of the flat earth society than any P&B poster.

No, Italians haven't always been in charge at Livvy, but people who like to be economical with the truth have found it a welcoming port of call.

I don't know what Hegarty or Robertson have said publically. I do know that they aren't being paid.

I'm pretty sure no-one knows what they have been accused of because Massone hasn't settled on something that is likely to hold water. I'm sure he'll build (read "manufacture") a case prior to the court appearance.

My favourite part of "Livvy blindness" is that despite there being no arguments that players were seldom if ever paid on time, and club staff have been up to six weeks behind in their wages, that there has been around a couple of dozen CCJs against the club this season, that the club are losing a minimum of 15k a month (Massone's words, not mine), that the manager who seemed to be doing ok was sacked, that his replacement and a coach are "suspended" without explanation, that players are unloaded for what everyone believes was well below their worth and that he (Massone) has lied for fun to near enough everyone he has come into contact with, there are still those who reckon he is doing ok, and deserves the fans backing. You couldn't make this stuff up, and it still makes me laugh.

It seems that behaviours and conduct that would be considered wholly unacceptable elsewhere are not worthy of universal criticism in West Lothian. Even pathological lying doesn't seem to be a guaranteed cumulative poison for these characters.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Guest

[Guest Wall E]

Oh I'd say the "Massone is a good guy and has been bankrolling us so back him" brigade are far more likely to be members of the flat earth society than any P&B poster.

No, Italians haven't always been in charge at Livvy, but people who like to be economical with the truth have found it a welcoming port of call.

I don't know what Hegarty or Robertson have said publically. I do know that they aren't being paid.

I'm pretty sure no-one knows what they have been accused of because Massone hasn't settled on something that is likely to hold water. I'm sure he'll build (read "manufacture") a case prior to the court appearance.

My favourite part of "Livvy blindness" is that despite there being no arguments that players were seldom if ever paid on time, and club staff have been up to six weeks behind in their wages, that there has been around a couple of dozen CCJs against the club this season, that the club are losing a minimum of 15k a month (Massone's words, not mine), that the manager who seemed to be doing ok was sacked, that his replacement and a coach are "suspended" without explanation, that players are unloaded for what everyone believes was well below their worth and that he (Massone) has lied for fun to near enough everyone he has come into contact with, there are still those who reckon he is doing ok, and deserves the fans backing. You couldn't make this stuff up, and it still makes me laugh.

It seems that behaviours and conduct that would be considered wholly unacceptable elsewhere are not worthy of universal criticism in West Lothian. Even pathological lying doesn't seem to be a guaranteed cumulative poison for these characters.

Times are grim.

[Jacobite_Dundee]

Isn't the rub (from experience closer to home) that until something monumentous and definite happens (ie administration in this case), fans don't want to believe the evidence, no matter how obvious it is from the outside.

I just hope that Livi don't go straight to winding-up, and that the Trust is strong enough to catch the club in its fall.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Isn't the rub (from experience closer to home) that until something monumentous and definite happens (ie administration in this case), fans don't want to believe the evidence, no matter how obvious it is from the outside.

I just hope that Livi don't go straight to winding-up, and that the Trust is strong enough to catch the club in its fall.

Spot on. And as you rightly point out, if though it must have been ridiculously obvious it was going to go Pete Tong at Dundee from the outside, when you're a fan and you're in the thick of it, it still comes as a shock when admin hits.

The difference i think with Dundee (and also further back with Morton etc) is that the fans were galvanised into action straight away, with the formation of D4L etc etc.

If Admin hits Livi now, and going by posts on here there certainly does seem to be a split in the support, they're going to have to pull together immediately or they're gone.

Childish arguments over framed shirts and use of function suites will be irrelevant.

[Guest]

Isn't the rub (from experience closer to home) that until something monumentous and definite happens (ie administration in this case), fans don't want to believe the evidence, no matter how obvious it is from the outside.

I just hope that Livi don't go straight to winding-up, and that the Trust is strong enough to catch the club in its fall.

That is a very valid point. It seems unthinkable that they could possibly slip into a second administration just five short years after their debts were erased. More than any other club, Livingston fans have been brought up on nothing but the spending of other people's money and so find it more difficult than just about anyone to accept that people aren't throwing money at them any more.

You are absolutely right, they will talk about the financial mess til the cows come home, but they won't actually do anything until the shitola hits the fan, and even then, the future of the club will be in the hands of a couple of dozen willing souls, because the rest won't do a thing.........they'll talk about it, but they won't do anything.

[banjo player]

You are absolutely right, they will talk about the financial mess til the cows come home, but they won't actually do anything until the shitola hits the fan, and even then, the future of the club will be in the hands of a couple of dozen willing souls, because the rest won't do a thing.........they'll talk about it, but they won't do anything.

In stark contrast to Clyde and Stirling Albion (who are even leafleting houses in Stirling - now that's dedication)

[Larsson.]

So what date do Livingston actually get told they will be punted to div 3,surely the other clubs

need to no as early as possible.

[jimbo]

So what date do Livingston actually get told they will be punted to div 3,surely the other clubs

need to no as early as possible.

There is the wee problem here of the club not actually being in administration - yet! Clyde and Stirling Albion are in the position of their boards at least being honest and saying they are in trouble while Livi fans are being fed shit like we will we paying off the ground rent (£200k+) by the end of June and buying the stadium soon after. Meanwhile wages go unpaid, creditors line up and the Trust who have been trying to work on a business plan in case it all goes belly up are villified in some quarters and accused of bringing the club down. Confused? You soon will be!

There are none so blind....etc

[Livi 293]

There is the wee problem here of the club not actually being in administration - yet! Clyde and Stirling Albion are in the position of their boards at least being honest and saying they are in trouble while Livi fans are being fed shit like we will we paying off the ground rent (£200k+) by the end of June and buying the stadium soon after. Meanwhile wages go unpaid, creditors line up and the Trust who have been trying to work on a business plan in case it all goes belly up are villified in some quarters and accused of bringing the club down. Confused? You soon will be!

There are none so blind....etc

Of course, the SFL can, despite having apparently said they won't, relegate us or even expel us for breach of player contracts. Administration or otherwise.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Livi 293

[ObserverFromAfar]

Oh.. things are getting even more desparate. Appeals directly on club website for season tickets to be purchased very very soon, and that income not to be invested for next season but to cover expenses already incurred and need to be paid very very soon too.

Interesting notes about £500,000 already "invested" by the board. I feel this is probably insignifant to the money spent by the taxpayers on building the stadium originally, or what the fans have spent in supporting the club.

"Short term cash flow issues" - always seems to be a phrase I hear when a company is about to fail. If previous bills are paid out of advances in future income, how will you pay current and future bills if that income has gone? A very steep downward spiral to an inevitable conclusion I think. Not sure whether it is a shame or a sham.

http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/

"LIVINGSTON FOOTBALL CLUB, YOUR CLUB, OUR CLUB,NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT.

We ask you to buy, as soon as possible, your season tickets and/or make a donation to Livingston Football Club at the Reception desk within the stadium.

All monies collected will be used to pay off creditors and assist the club with current short term cash flow issues.

The board communicates, until now, we have invested approximately half a million pounds in the club. We fully appreciate your support at this difficult time and take this opportunity to thank you very much.

Yours in Livingston

THE BOARD OF LIVINGSTON FOOTBALL CLUB"

[GDee]

Oh dear God. Goodbye Livingston FC.

[theoceanfloor]

http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/

"LIVINGSTON FOOTBALL CLUB, YOUR CLUB, OUR CLUB,NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT.

We ask you to buy, as soon as possible, your season tickets and/or make a donation to Livingston Football Club at the Reception desk within the stadium.

All monies collected will be used to pay off creditors and assist the club with current short term cash flow issues.

The board communicates, until now, we have invested approximately half a million pounds in the club. We fully appreciate your support at this difficult time and take this opportunity to thank you very much.

Yours in Livingston

THE BOARD OF LIVINGSTON FOOTBALL CLUB"

But...but....but....Massone said everything was ok....

[Guest]

Oh dear God. Goodbye Livingston FC.

Is this the "new updated" Livingston website? it looks awful, so I guess its some sort of interim site. The announcement reads really badly. Would it have taken a great deal of effort to have someone proof read it?

That aside, it really doesn't wash. Since last week, probably a few season tickets will have been sold, but in all probability something like 5% to 10% of what he wanted. Now it's down to a bucket in reception for donations.

The claim that he has "invested" half a million pounds doesn't sit too comfortably either. What does "invested" mean? Does it mean he has put half a million pounds (plus his original quid) into the club, and it's gone for ever in every sense of the word (i.e., he hasn't generated a half million of debt against the club which is what I think it actually means but it has been worded in an ambiguous way).

I simply think that every avenue of being able to rob Peter to pay Paul has shut down, and he is very much up shit creek without a paddle. He has presided over rising debt of 50k a month for 8 or 9 months, and things are now coming to a head.

Despite him now appealing for donations at the reception desk, there are those still clinging to the belief that all is well.

He knows he doesn't have the money to pay the council, and probably no money to clear numerous other debts. He is still managing to bluff a few into believing he's on top of things, and that he has spent lots of cash keeping the club afloat.

As the old saying goes, you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can never fool all of the people all of the time.

If he had spent a fortune on this club, it would have been crystal clear that he had done so. Now he has a broken English line on the official website claiming half a million spent..........and the usual suspects will believe it. The only thing you can take from the announcement as being the gospel truth is that he and the club are financially buggered.

Cue Griffiths moving on for less than 100k in a hurried deal in an Edinburgh hotel some time soon..........

Edited May 27, 2009 by Guest

[mcjimbob_dfc]

That statement on the Livy website regarding season tickets seems to be a completely last ditch attempt to get some cash in to pay off some of the creditors before the final calling.

If it was me, I don't think i'd be buying a season ticket especially if they are freely admitting that the funds will go towards the short-term running of the club. Surely season ticket funds go mainly towards the transfer budget for the coming season?!!

Very worrying indeed.

[Bri RCFC]

Doesn't look too promising! Season tickets to pay off creditors? that cannot be healthy maybe Airdire wont be going down afterall

[jay_7]

The announcement reads really badly. Would it have taken a great deal of effort to have someone proof read it?

I'm sure if they could have afforded to pay someone to proof-read it then it would have happened...

[Chuckinho]

So if Livi go under, are those who bought season tickets just dumb or do they have a case for some sort of refund...?

[Guest]

Doesn't look too promising! Season tickets to pay off creditors? that cannot be healthy maybe Airdire wont be going down afterall

This is from their forum this morning..............

QUOTE

"I think people are looking too much into this, season tickets will be bought in June, July & August and and as the club have stated it is a SHORT TERM cash flow problem."

UNQUOTE

Phew, thank goodnes for that. Seems they are perfectly ok, so there is no need to concern ourselves. It'll all be fixed very soon as it's only short term. They had me worried there, but Massone is on top of things. That is such a relief!

Edited May 27, 2009 by Guest

[Swampy]

So if Livi go under, are those who bought season tickets just dumb or do they have a case for some sort of refund...?

They'd be treated as creditors, I think, i.e. 2p-in-the-pound job.