Guest The White Feather Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 That was precisely what Gretna fans said. And it was equally ludicrous then. Yeah and there were only 17 of them to enjoy it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 By what possible definition are all clubs franchises? In that Livingston are no different from Arsenal to name but one, and no different from any other team potentially. The point I was trying to make is that Livingston evolved the same way any other football team evolves. The term Franchise FC is used as a derogatory insult, but it essentially dismisses the history of football. Teams move and change name all the time. Some successfully, some less so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) The sad thing about all this is most spl and first division and some smaller clubs are basically in a similar position to livi. They are by and large heavily in debt and if called upon to clear those debts, they could not do so without selling there best players or other assets.Setanta is gone and theres no way will the spl get a deal elsewhere as good as, if at all. Costs are up and income is down so dont think Livi are on there own. More clubs during this season will hit the brakes, some may even crash. Maybe even your club??? This situation will get increasingly worse over the coming months and years unless the SFA and SFL get there stupid heads together and radically change Scottish footbal and its format. Don't be daft you have teams like St. MiDD.en with a zillion pounds in the bank and a kinder surprise stadium to boot.....the first force in scottish football. Edited June 30, 2009 by dirty dingus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boredandalone Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 They've appointed a new head coach. John Murphy, the world famous goalkeeping coach, is their new man. It's on the bbc website. Murph is a decent bloke and a very good coach and has learnt with the best on the courses at Largs. He's also worked under Stevie Nicol at New England. I very much dount he can believe the shambles he's got himself involved in. I would be very surprised if he hangs around! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Murph is a decent bloke and a very good coach and has learnt with the best on the courses at Largs. He's also worked under Stevie Nicol at New England. I very much dount he can believe the shambles he's got himself involved in. I would be very surprised if he hangs around! That's never a good sign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big G... Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Any truth in the story that Massone has fooked off back to Italia? If that's the case, it means he either doesn't want to face up to the inevitable, or he won't be seen again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 True if trophies won constributes to a successful history Livingston have been successful, they have after all won the League Cup.....Better to burn out than to fade away If football were the meritocracy it supposes itself to be, then any trophy won while under administration (meaning you were spending money you didn't have to spend), should only enter the record books if you re-structure but pay every single penny you owe. Failure to pay back what you spent putting together a team to win you a trophy should result in the trophy win being expunged from the record books. In football, money is the performance enhancing drug of choice. Achieve something through spending what you then avoid paying back, and the achievement should go unrecognized. Avoidance of debt repayments should equal no cups, no championships. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Any truth in the story that Massone has fooked off back to Italia? If that's the case, it means he either doesn't want to face up to the inevitable, or he won't be seen again. He would seem to go back to Italy every week, and if rumours are correct, he does so at the expense of the club. If you believe that he funds the club, then he is effectively spending his own money on himself. However given his credentials to date, the chances of it being true are somewhere between slim and none. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Historical comparisons with the likes of Arsenal are fatuous. Insofar as there was a time when there were no football clubs, and the leagues in both Scotland and England were assembled by various sets of historical accidents and rules that were made up according to circumstance as things evolved, then yes evey club could be said to be a franchise ar some stage - but that would just be a bit silly and says nothing about the rightness or wrongness of allowing such geographical shifts under the current system. That said, Scotland unlike England still doesn't have a pyramid structure or quite such well-established or any procedure for allowing clubs to come in and out the league to reflect demographic changes (except by the somewhat unsatisfactory method of waiting for some to go bust) so I don't really accept comparisons between Livingston and the Milton Keynes thing, which was far worse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wall E Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (meaning you were spending money you didn't have to spend)There are many clubs that have and continue to spend money they don't have. Not eventually going into admin doesn't make that behaviour more palatable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObserverFromAfar Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The Scotsman has a very interesting report this morning- and reporting on some quite strong action from West Lothian Council http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Liqu...ton-.5416131.jp Extract: "It's thought the council has put sheriff officers on standby to this morning serve the First Division club notice of its intention to appoint an interim liquidator. If Massone failed to make the deadline, the controversial Italian would have 14 days to pay up in full or risk having Livingston taken out his hands in what would be a significant step towards the club being wound up." I am a bit ignorant on the "interim liquidation" process - can the experts on here shed somelight on this one please? Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Southampton could be gone by Friday, so what hope Livingstone now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpma Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The Scotsman has a very interesting report this morning- and reporting on some quite strong action from West Lothian Councilhttp://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Liqu...ton-.5416131.jp From the same source.... In a separate issue, Livingston's safety certificate was annulled yesterday after an inspection at the ground. Safety officers are writing to the SFA to inform them that the club are not able to host football matches with the public in attendance until their problems are rectified.A friendly against Championship outfit Plymouth has been arranged for Monday, 20 July, but that will have to be cancelled or played behind closed doors. A further inspection of the ground is not expected to take place until 30 July. Looks like the final death throes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I may have this wrong, but my understanding is the club would have to call in the administrators.Any debtor would have to file a bankcruptcy petition through the courts. I suspect if the latter is to happen it would take a couple more days to be formulated and made public. Livi will not do the first, so its the second option i suspect. A creditor can petition the court for an administrator to be appointed but its very unusual. The problem is that the petition has to have a report attached to it which concludes that an admin order would fulfil one of four objectives laid out in the Insolvency Act and that is very difficult without access to the company's books and records. I think WLCC are more likely just to evict them. I doubt if anyone would groundshare with them given Massone's record on payments and so no ground = kicked out of league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObserverFromAfar Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) A creditor can petition the court for an administrator to be appointed but its very unusual. The problem is that the petition has to have a report attached to it which concludes that an admin order would fulfil one of four objectives laid out in the Insolvency Act and that is very difficult without access to the company's books and records. Tonsilitis... sorry to bother you, but could this be fulfilled by the "interim liquidator" regime referred to in this morning's Scotsman? What are the steps that need to be undertaken in this process? Edited July 1, 2009 by ObserverFromAfar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 There are many clubs that have and continue to spend money they don't have. Not eventually going into admin doesn't make that behaviour more palatable. Of course it does. Not going into admin means that any debts are being dealt with 'satisfactorily'. Going into admin means the exact opposite. Fine line between the two at times, though, I'm sure 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullyWeeBoy Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Not looking good for Livi Massone what a twat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Of course it does. Not going into admin means that any debts are being dealt with 'satisfactorily'. Going into admin means the exact opposite. Fine line between the two at times, though, I'm sure Yes indeed. Almost any business, especially a newish business, is likely to have some debt, that's how the whole system works. It depends what level of debt you've got and how much you're pushing the boat out, which as you say is a judgement call and a fine line. Arsenal took on a colossal debt to build their new stadium but one that was within their means to manage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The Scotsman has a very interesting report this morning- and reporting on some quite strong action from West Lothian Councilhttp://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Liqu...ton-.5416131.jp Extract: "It's thought the council has put sheriff officers on standby to this morning serve the First Division club notice of its intention to appoint an interim liquidator. If Massone failed to make the deadline, the controversial Italian would have 14 days to pay up in full or risk having Livingston taken out his hands in what would be a significant step towards the club being wound up." I am a bit ignorant on the "interim liquidation" process - can the experts on here shed somelight on this one please? Thanks! OK! An interim liquidator is part of the whole process of liquidation by the court. When a creditor petitions the court to have a company wound up i.e liquidated the stages are: 1) The court makes a first deliverance which is essentially and order to advertise the fact that the company might be put into liquidation, and serve notice on the company that they have 8 days from the date of advertisement to satisfy the court why they should not be liquidated. Sometimes at this stage a Provisional Liquidator is appointed to safeguard the assets meantime, but not always. 2) Once the period in 1) has expired the court makes a winding up order and appoints an interim liquidator. The interim liquidator is 99 times out of 100 nominated by the petitioning creditor. At this stage the process is irreversible and the company is effectively dead. The interim liquidator's main duty is to get financial facts and figures together in a statement of affairs and to call a meeting of creditors at which the creditors will vote on who is to be the liquidator if there is more than one nomination. 3) The liquidator is appointed at the meeting of creditors and sees the process of winding up the company through including things like making a report to the DTI on the conduct of the directors and, if he thinks there's money in it, pursuing the directors for wrongful trading, etc. His primary duty is to look after the interests of creditors. Typically the whole process takes 2/3 years. If the company is liquidated, there is no way back and its league membership dies with the company. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The sad thing about all this is most spl and first division and some smaller clubs are basically in a similar position to livi. They are by and large heavily in debt and if called upon to clear those debts, they could not do so without selling there best players or other assets.Setanta is gone and theres no way will the spl get a deal elsewhere as good as, if at all. Costs are up and income is down so dont think Livi are on there own. More clubs during this season will hit the brakes, some may even crash. Maybe even your club??? This situation will get increasingly worse over the coming months and years unless the SFA and SFL get there stupid heads together and radically change Scottish footbal and its format. What eats everyone up is that this is the third time in 14 years that creditors look like going unpaid. It's all very well talking about people's jobs being at risk, but there's also people's jobs at risk for the companies who don't get what they are owed. It's a two way street, and it has to be the football club who pay the price this time, not the creditors. The transfer from Meadowbank to Livvy was meant to be the brave new world, and creditors getting nothing was regrettable, but it wouldn't happen again. Administration in 2004, and the bumping of creditors was regrettable, but it wouldn't happen again. Guess what? It's happening again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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