Chuckinho Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 So in other words, if Livi goes into interim liquidtation, they can play this season? Shouldn't the SPL step in 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjimbob_dfc Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 So we assume that Livy will either be forced into liquidation by the council OR at best evicted. While this is a slight tangent from the general discussion of the demise of Livingstone Football Club, what are West Lothian Council likely to want with a 10,000 seater football ground? Will they bulldoze the thing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 So in other words, if Livi goes into interim liquidtation, they can play this season?Shouldn't the SPL step in No they can't. It is almost certain that all the staff and players will be dismissed more or less immediately as it would seem that there is no money to pay them. If you are referring to my comment that the whole process takes 2-3 years, I was referring to winding up the company's financial affairs. From a practical perspective, the appointment of an interim liquidator means instant death for the football team! I think the league have to act now given the circumstances and the fact that apart from the liquidation there is no safety certificate presumably because there is no electricity = no ground. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss..schlecht Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The moral of the story is, ....don,t spend what you can,t afford.......oh and remember to pay your bills . I don't think Dundee fans are in any position to moralise to Livi about paying your debts. Dundee didn't pay the £6 or £7 million they owed. It looks likely Livi will go out of business for a whole lot less than Dundee managed to get the banks to write off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 http://www.westlothian.gov.uk/sitecontent/news/latest/Livi This is a press statement on West Lothian Council's website. It's clear to me from this statement that the council will do all they can to support the club IF Massone walks away from all of this. The fourth paragraph down tells me again that the council won't do anything that could see the club go completely bust. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObserverFromAfar Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 http://www.westlothian.gov.uk/sitecontent/news/latest/LiviThis is a press statement on West Lothian Council's website. It's clear to me from this statement that the council will do all they can to support the club IF Massone walks away from all of this. The fourth paragraph down tells me again that the council won't do anything that could see the club go completely bust. That statement in full: News release Livingston FC update A West Lothian Council spokesperson said: " Several months ago we agreed a deadline of June 30 with the club's owners, by which we asked them to provide evidence that they can meet all outstanding obligations to the council. Unfortunately, the club's owners have failed to satisfy the terms of this agreement and we have reluctantly started formal legal procedures. "We have been flexible, patient and reasonable with regards to the club's plight and have given the club's owners ample opportunity to settle the outstanding issues. "Supporters can be assured that we have made numerous attempts to work with the club's owners at every stage of the process to help avoid this action. However, we have a duty to all residents and businesses in West Lothian to ensure debt is re-paid. "We would like to assure supporters that a secure future for senior football at Livingston remains our priority and we hope this action will ensure the good name of Livingston FC remains in tact for generations to come." Ged Nixon, from supporters group, Livi for Life, added: "The situation has to come to an end. We fully understand and support the action that West Lothian Council has taken. "In order to salvage any possible chance of retaining professional football within the West Lothian community, something had to give. As a group of supporters we to have exhausted all avenues to assist and communicate with the owners of the football club to no avail." Strange mish-mash of things here - a sop to the Livingston fans, but the need to ensure fairness across with all other WLC creditors and tax payers must be the priority surely (as Duncan Freemason has been saying for some time). No confirmation of what the action they have started atually is? Is the logical outcome of their course of action Administration or Liquidation? The Interim Liquidator conclusion has been well documented on here by Tonsilitis. So it looks as if WLC have not communicated that difficult message. Why on earth are a supporters group quoted on the release? Seems strange and out of place to me on this official council business - unless there is something about the relationship and understanding between WLC elected and employed officials, and this organisation I don't understand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I have no strong feelings about Livingston FC one way or another, but I will feel really gutted for their fans if the club goes bust. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for any fan to loose his/her team and the fact that this has been hanging around for a while does not make it any easier. Undoubtedly if things do go pear shaped there will be the odd idiot that will gloat but I think the majority of football fans will share my sentiments. Good luck. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 er...they've started action to liquidate the club in court. The only way this will be staved off is if Massone walks away which he shows no sign of doing. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if he deliberately stayed there to ensure the club were liquidated so that his mad version of events would be "vindicated". That said Livingston have more lives than an extremely lucky Irish cat, and it won't surprise me at all to see a version of them emerge intact from this shambles. The council don't *really* want to close them down and the SFL will stedfastly do nothing. That Ged Nixon appears on a council statement is significant- it means that a plan is all ready to roll to save the club when Massone walks (if he does). namely, the Trust + McDougall take over, make a large goodwill payment towards the settling of the council debt in return for a withdrawal of the liquidation proceedings, and agree a new plan to pay the rest back in a short space of time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) http://www.westlothian.gov.uk/sitecontent/news/latest/LiviThis is a press statement on West Lothian Council's website. It's clear to me from this statement that the council will do all they can to support the club IF Massone walks away from all of this. The fourth paragraph down tells me again that the council won't do anything that could see the club go completely bust. As I thought, West Lothian Council will try and keep Senior Football in Livingston. They can't be seen to abandon their franchised league place having been party to taking Meadowbank Thistle to West Lothian in the first place - the club is worth money and an asset to the local economy if run in a proper manner. No doubt, the Scottish Football league are involved in discussions too. Looks like curtains for Massolini - the old Bustorella trick will not work here. Good riddance. Edited July 1, 2009 by KingfaetheSooth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Debts we know about Council 280k Inland Revenue a "six figure sum" (say 250 k for the sake of argument) Scottish Power approx 40 k (32 k bill + reconnection fee + deposit) Police ?? could be anything between 10 and 100 k 100 + small creditors anything between £150 and £5000= approx 120k. unpaid wages etc. prob about another 100k a very rough and conservative estimate has them 890 k in debt and the reality is probably a fair bit higher. It's a long road ahead for the Trust and MacDougall if that happens 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 While this is a slight tangent from the general discussion of the demise of Livingstone Football Club, what are West Lothian Council likely to want with a 10,000 seater football ground? Will they bulldoze the thing? They could lease it out to a football team - if only there was one operating locally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosby1314 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If they do go bust, is there time to bring in a non league side into the SFL set up? The first competitive game is only 24 days away 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 They could lease it out to a football team - if only there was one operating locally. It's also possible that with Massone's Livingston entity evicted the council could lease it to a new entity- if only the SFL would agree to transfer the league place. As the SFL would do almost anything to avoid Livingston disappearing, they might well agree to it, with the price to pay being relegation to division 3 or something like that. If Livingston *do* disappear, the Trust and McDougall have a year to get together a bid for a new Livingston-based team to replace the "old" defunct club by applying to join SFL 3 and starting again- of course, as Airdrieonians found in competition with Gretna, there's no guarantee of success. After all the trouble caused by the "old Livingston" since they were shat into existence in 1995, a Spartans bid would maybe look less risky. If it all collapses though, and no new Trust-backed team emerges, I'd imagine the council will sit on the land until the market improves and then sell it to the highest bidder to bulldoze and put houses/a retail park on it. That way they get quite a bit of their lost money back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If they do go bust, is there time to bring in a non league side into the SFL set up? The first competitive game is only 24 days away I can't see how a credible election process could be held in such a short timescale. But with the SFL you never know! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 As I thought, West Lothian Council will try and keep Senior Football in Livingston. They can't be seen to abandon their franchised league place having been party to taking Meadowbank Thistle to West Lothian in the first place - the club is worth money and an asset to the local economy if run in a proper manner.No doubt, the Scottish Football league are involved in discussions too. Looks like curtains for Massolini - the old Bustorella trick will not work here. Good riddance. They will try and keep senior football there if possible, yeah, but I think they may have reached the point of recognising that can't happen under Massone. We'll find out fairly shortly I think. Any chance you could stop harping on about the franchising thing every time you make a comment? Y0our sense of righteousness about trust-run football clubs and all that jazz has a tendency to set the cause back by getting peoples' backs up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Why on earth are a supporters group quoted on the release? Seems strange and out of place to me on this official council business - unless there is something about the relationship and understanding between WLC elected and employed officials, and this organisation I don't understand. Could it be that WLC couldn't get any reaction from anyone at the club and were left to contact the fans instead? Anything's possible while there's a lunatic in charge at the club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Cowden Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I can't see how a credible election process could be held in such a short timescale. But with the SFL you never know! One thing you can be sure of with the SFL - positive action is not an an option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Debts we know aboutCouncil 280k Inland Revenue a "six figure sum" (say 250 k for the sake of argument) Scottish Power approx 40 k (32 k bill + reconnection fee + deposit) Police ?? could be anything between 10 and 100 k 100 + small creditors anything between £150 and £5000= approx 120k. unpaid wages etc. prob about another 100k a very rough and conservative estimate has them 890 k in debt and the reality is probably a fair bit higher. It's a long road ahead for the Trust and MacDougall if that happens I've seen reports of between £800K and £1M so that is the right 'ball-park.' A long road ahead right enough - I fail to see why the trust needs MacDougall tbh - though his experience of running a football club might be useful I guess. The main thing is that the new Livingston club is run by the supporters via a trust working with the Council. Never again should Livingston FC go down the road of debt and bust. The club should be 100% owned by the fans - MacDougall is NOT a Livingston supporter and his agenda is unclear. I hope the members of the Livi trust are asking the right questions of Nixon and the elected committee of the Livingston trust. I hope that out of Massolini's mess a community club can emerge - that is sustainable and finds it's level. I'm sure most supporters of other clubs would have little problem with this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) Any chance you could stop harping on about the franchising thing every time you make a comment? Y0our sense of righteousness about trust-run football clubs and all that jazz has a tendency to set the cause back by getting peoples' backs up. As it says on my signature and said on the tee shirts of many Grimsby Town fans when they played the MK Dongs in the final of the tinpot paint cup at Wembley..... FRANCHISE FOOTBALL - NEVER FORGIVE, NEVER FORGET. Edited July 1, 2009 by KingfaetheSooth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I've seen reports of between £800K and £1M so that is the right 'ball-park.'A long road ahead right enough - I fail to see why the trust needs MacDougall tbh - though his experience of running a football club might be useful I guess. The main thing is that the new Livingston club is run by the supporters via a trust working with the Council. Never again should Livingston FC go down the road of debt and bust. The club should be 100% owned by the fans - MacDougall is NOT a Livingston supporter and his agenda is unclear. I hope the members of the Livi trust are asking the right questions of Nixon and the elected committee of the Livingston trust. I hope that out of Massolini's mess a community club can emerge - that is sustainable and finds it's level. I'm sure most supporters of other clubs would have little problem with this. I'm not as fixated on community/trust ownership. Without MacDougall the Trust don't have the necessary funds to make a credible fist of running the club at any higher a level than the EoS first division. They are rumoured to only have about 10k. to call on. I do know from observing MacDougall's career at Cowdenbeath that he is a football man through and through and a 100% straight as a die chairman. You couldn't wish for a better and harder working chairman at a lower league side. MacDougall + Trust- and maybe a name change to "Livingston Thistle" to distance the new owners from the past of failed shysters and fanatsists- and maybe those fans unhappy at Livingston;s formation and recent history might give them a chance. With debts running at their current level 100% trust/fan ownership is as much fantasy as Massone's Livingston qualifying for the Champions League. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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