Livingston - all the threads merged

[Ivo den Bieman]

You are probably right, but what are the % debts. Doesn't Massone hold a significant part of the debt?

Also, the HMRC seem to be taking a less strict line with some clubs in England. That said, Livi is a complete basket case and if it does reach court I don't think their feet will touch the ground.

This is simply not true, as was explained a while back on the thread by someone else. Accrington Stanley, who owe £300k, were only saved by a substantial up front payment plus agreeing to a stringent repayment of the remaining debt, and were only allowed to do this because it was the first time it had happened to the re-formed club, and HMRC was convinced of their sincerity in repaying the debt owed. Had they hemmed and hawed or told lies, serially, like Massone, they wouldn't exist by now.

Since then HMRC have pursued at least two other English clubs that I can think of with great vigour, and those proceedings are ongoing. A couple of non league clubs further down the pyramid have folded and HMRC is almost always on the death certificate as one of the causes.

[Yoss]

HMRC are indeed taking a less strict line than they used to when it comes to CVAs, that's a change in the law - they're no longer a priority creditor and now just take the same number of pennies in the pound that everyone else gets.

(They do, however, still have a rule that they must not get less than any otehr creditor and they have some issues with football's rule that all football debts must be paid in full, Despite making some noises about it, particularly in Leeds's case, they're yet to challenge this though.)

[Sergeant Wilson]

This is simply not true, as was explained a while back on the thread by someone else. Accrington Stanley, who owe £300k, were only saved by a substantial up front payment plus agreeing to a stringent repayment of the remaining debt, and were only allowed to do this because it was the first time it had happened to the re-formed club, and HMRC was convinced of their sincerity in repaying the debt owed. Had they hemmed and hawed or told lies, serially, like Massone, they wouldn't exist by now.

Since then HMRC have pursued at least two other English clubs that I can think of with great vigour, and those proceedings are ongoing. A couple of non league clubs further down the pyramid have folded and HMRC is almost always on the death certificate as one of the causes.

I know that. Rushden, I think were another case. I thought that was them being less stringent. They used to want it all imediately. I didn't think for a minute they would negotiate on amounts, only the when and how. How much do Livi owe HMRC?

[Ivo den Bieman]

sorry that last post came across as a bit nippy and I didn't intend that- it's just that people have peddled the line that HMRC are being softer on football clubs before, and its misleading.

anyway, no one knows how much *exactly* Livi owe HMRC but its a six figure sum. Someone put it about that half the Griffiths transfer money was paid to them to keep them sweet for the time being, but this was later denied (by HMRC if I remember rightly, it was in that article in the Herald). HMRC, as they always do until their pursuit of monies reaches court, refuse to comment on individual cases.

I didn't know that Yoss about CVAs and the HMRC, but the point stands that HMRC will force companies, football or otherwise, into liquidation without compunction if the debts are starting to get too big. Accrington weren't in administration when HMRC nearly had them closed down at the beginning of the summer.

[EdinburghPar1975]

So....is the leccy back on at Almondvale? Given the assurances on the club official site yesterday that it would be, this would be a great indicator as to whether Massone is actually going to start using that £300k to pay things off.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

So....is the leccy back on at Almondvale? Given the assurances on the club official site yesterday that it would be, this would be a great indicator as to whether Massone is actually going to start using that £300k to pay things off.

Someone said all will be revealed on thursday, which is today, I wouldn't hold your breath though!

[EdinburghPar1975]

I'll be surprised if anything 'official' is announced today. I can only imagine what it must be like for any Livi fans..the silence is deafening.

In all honesty I couldn't work out why he'd pay for the leccy if it could all be pointless by today anyway.

[Ivo den Bieman]

don't forget we might not hear anything on this until early next week, owing to legal wrangling/paperwork screw up, etc.

I imagine Massone is paying the electricity bill (if he actually intends to do so rather than just talking about it) to make things look maybe a bit better for the club in court. "Look, we payed off Scottish Power, all we need is a bit more time and we'll pay off the rest...."

[Sergeant Wilson]

So....is the leccy back on at Almondvale? Given the assurances on the club official site yesterday that it would be, this would be a great indicator as to whether Massone is actually going to start using that £300k to pay things off.

Massone is dafter than he looks if he thinks paying the bill guarantees re-connection within 24 hours. Sounds like someone in the leccy call centre is bullshitting him.

[LLD]

Massone is dafter than he looks if he thinks paying the bill guarantees re-connection within 24 hours. Sounds like someone in the leccy call centre is bullshitting him.

Massone is a stranger to the truth. I wouldn't believe anything he says about anything.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Excitment over, The big reveal was yesterdays news on the official site, although I've been led to believe there is more to follow, hell knows when though I'm going to end up mad!

[Jay Silverheels]

Phantoms-livi-lass, don't believe anything that The Man posts. His prophetic Nostradamus-like predictions are usually vague and open to interpretation, or they're common sense. Obviously there is more to follow. I haven't seen him be right about anything yet. All he does is post pseudo-cryptic statements which anyone with half an ounce of common sense could do.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Jay Silverheels

[EdinburghPar1975]

...and heres another £8k down the drain....

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/breaking...8000.5465068.jp

[Ivo den Bieman]

I wonder how much of his award he'll end up seeing?

[Livi]

Massone is aff his heid.

He just can't get the message, that fans' & local businesses don't want to do business with him. All they have had for a year since he arrived is lie after lie after lie IMO. He needs to stop thinking he can save the club step down NOW & move on.

Its clear the council don't want to do business with him or believe in his new plan that seems to have dreamed up. Yesderday's announcement was a re-hash of what was said at the weeting a few Saturday's ago, but they have chosen to come out with a 'Statement' yesterday what alot of bullsh!t to be honest.

Massone leave Livingston & Leave Livingston FC you are no longer liked at our club & its time to let it go & see if a salvage operation can be undertaken the long you hold on the less chance of that happening.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Phantoms-livi-lass, don't believe anything that The Man posts. His prophetic Nostradamus-like predictions are usually vague and open to interpretation, or they're common sense. Obviously there is more to follow. I haven't seen him be right about anything yet. All he does is post pseudo-cryptic statements which anyone with half an ounce of common sense could do.

I think the problem is that The Man is in a difficult situation too, I think he gets the crap from both sides which must be a nightmare.

[BANKIEBILL]

Massone is aff his heid.

He just can't get the message, that fans' & local businesses don't want to do business with him. All they have had for a year since he arrived is lie after lie after lie IMO. He needs to stop thinking he can save the club step down NOW & move on.

Its clear the council don't want to do business with him or believe in his new plan that seems to have dreamed up. Yesderday's announcement was a re-hash of what was said at the weeting a few Saturday's ago, but they have chosen to come out with a 'Statement' yesterday what alot of bullsh!t to be honest.

Massone leave Livingston & Leave Livingston FC you are no longer liked at our club & its time to let it go & see if a salvage operation can be undertaken the long you hold on the less chance of that happening.

Fair play to Livi fans for giving a toss ... however it's a club that has been going all of what 13/14 years or so ... it's been kept afloat artificially by fuds that have literally screwed money out of people ... you've never worked your way up in a sustainable fashion ... ie. be able to break-even . What kind of sensible business model has ever operated at Almondvale ? Keane should probably've been jailed ... Flynn seemed like a complete shyster and i've no idea what he though he was doing ... and now the whole farce is summed up by this clown Massone. The news that Neil Rankine is perhaps also involved should actually cause the council to speed up the process to shut the club down.

There is another club in Livingston - if the fans are truly wanting to support a local team then get involved there ... I know this would probably let Ballantyne's boys off the hook again - but ( and it pains me to say this ) at least a few people care about them - unlike you guys i'm afraid.

Sorry - i've never met a nasty Livvy fan - but it's an abomination that probably needs to be killed off now ... or at least one that needs to take a good look at itself and reinvent itself as a community club ( at a much lower level to begin with ) - not one that just costs the community an arm and a leg.

Edited July 17, 2009 by BANKIEBILL

[P.C]

any further developments today or still quiet over there?

[phantoms-livi-lass]

any further developments today or still quiet over there?

Not heard a thing yet, Just waiting through this torture of silence.

[KingfaetheSooth]

Fair play to Livi fans for giving a toss ... however it's a club that has been going all of what 13/14 years or so ... it's been kept afloat artificially by fuds that have literally screwed money out of people ... you've never worked your way up in a sustainable fashion ... ie. be able to break-even . What kind of sensible business model has ever operated at Almondvale ? Keane should probably've been jailed ... Flynn seemed like a complete shyster and i've no idea what he though he was doing ... and now the whole farce is summed up by this clown Massone. The news that Neil Rankine is perhaps also involved should actually cause the council to speed up the process to shut the club down.

There is another club in Livingston - if the fans are truly wanting to support a local team then get involved there ... I know this would probably let Ballantyne's boys off the hook again - but ( and it pains me to say this ) at least a few people care about them - unlike you guys i'm afraid.

Sorry - i've never met a nasty Livvy fan - but it's an abomination that probably needs to be killed off now ... or at least one that needs to take a good look at itself and reinvent itself as a community club ( at a much lower level to begin with ) - not one that just costs the community an arm and a leg.

Don't forget "Blobby" Hunter who dreamt up the whole thing I think - not to mention the councillors and members of parliament for West Lothian who aided the process of moving Meadowbank Thistle to Livingston and have supported this sham club for the last 14 years. That's why I'm still sure that WLC will do almost anything to keep a Senior club in the area and have almost certainly been having talks with Ged Nixon, Gordon McDougall et al behind the scenes.

You are right that there are people who care about Livingston's Junior team - but to fair there are fans of Livingston FC (the senior club) - who also care about their club. Time will tell, if they care enough to start again in the East of Scotland league, if it comes to it - or if they pool their resources with Livingston's Junior club - that is their decision to make democratically - if push comes to shove. Remember that David Wilson from the Livi for Life trust spoke at the recent Supporters Direct Scottish Conference as well as your own Alasdair Galloway. Whisper it quietly, but even your old pals at Dumbarton have got vibrant Supporters trust.

Livi fans can hopefully take much encouragement and a lead from what the fans have done with reforming Clydebank and what the Gretna fans have achieved in a year. I admit, I was dubious that the Gretna fans had the motivation or where-with-all to start again - but they did and have done so with much enthusiasm and pride. Well done to them. I certainly never doubted for a moment that a reformed Clydebank would do well - hats off to all the hard-working fans at Clydebank.

Edited July 17, 2009 by KingfaetheSooth