Guest Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) Well it should all now be drawing to a conclusion in the next working week. I think most of the Livi support are anti Massone, but are pretty much rudderless in terms of action and keeping their story to the forefront. It comes across as a district/county that actually won't be too fussed if the team disappear. Massone will be pleased at the lack of concerted opposition. The council might well be emboldened by the lack of outrage of the club potentially folding. If things come to a head this week, then it is either administration or liquidation. The former is not the automatic choice. As said before, and administrator has to have something to administrate over, and in Livingston's case, the only asset they have is their league registration. Perhaps WLC finally see that the current arrangements are always going attract the shadier people to their county, and the eradication of Livingston in its current format is a price worth paying in order to get the best deal for the public purse..........we'll see. I\d be very surprised if an as yet undeclared money bags rides into town in order to extend the charade still further. I'd be equally surprised if Livingston limp into administration and do not get hit by some pretty draconian penalties by the SFL as an attempt to show that the little dog has at least one good bite left in it. Edited July 18, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Well it should all now be drawing to a conclusion in the next working week. I think most of the Livi support are anti Massone, but are pretty much rudderless in terms of action and keeping their story to the forefront. It comes across as a district/county that actually won't be too fussed if the team disappear.Massone will be pleased at the lack of concerted opposition. The council might well be emboldened by the lack of outrage of the club potentially folding. If things come to a head this week, then it is either administration or liquidation. The former is not the automatic choice. As said before, and administrator has to have something to administrate over, and in Livingston's case, the only asset they have is their league registration. Perhaps WLC finally see that the current arrangements are always going attract the shadier people to their county, and the eradication of Livingston in its current format is a price worth paying in order to get the best deal for the public purse..........we'll see. I\d be very surprised if an as yet undeclared money bags rides into town in order to extend the charade still further. I'd be equally surprised if Livingston limp into administration and do not get hit by some pretty draconian penalties by the SFL as an attempt to show that the little dog has at least one good bite left in it. It will be the apathy of the support/wider community that kills it off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick cash Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 who will go first Livi or Thatcher, it's a win win situation really 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 who will go first Livi or Thatcher, it's a win win situation really That's a bit harsh, Thatcher wasn't all bad. B) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) I see another Italion has left Livi. Shame its not Massone Edited July 18, 2009 by Livi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Here is some pics of creamery park for those tat haven't seen it. £16 my @rse http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...t&p=3613703 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgers apprentice Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Here is some pics of creamery park for those tat haven't seen it. £16 my @rse http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...t&p=3613703 auld boy saying " feck this am awa fur a pish " 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotelandywalker Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 That's a bit harsh, Thatcher wasn't all bad. B) Spex on not, the most ridiculous post in my life time! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley D Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Setting aside all issue people may have about Livingston and the way they've gone about things since they came into existence, I actually do hope that the Trust manage to get control and the chance to put their Community Club plan into action. The worst thing that happened to football was moving away from that very concept....the concept that a club was owned by its members (fans). More clubs have gone into administration (and worse) since 1994 (over 50 in total) than ever did prior to that, and it's no coincidence that this was the time when it became fashionable to buy a football club. This is a bit of a bold statement, and one that I'll probably be slated heavily for....but I think there's a real chance that, if given the chance, the Livingston Trust could give the rest of Scottish football a real lesson on the kind of setup we should all be seeking for our clubs. One which, by its very nature, ensures proper governance and keeps a club operating within it's means whilst maximising the available income from the community in which they are based. Obviously their will be (more) casualties as the result of administration or liquidation when people are forced to take next to nothing (if anything) by way of a settlement....but that can't be helped and having another rich businessman who's just after a play thing coming to the rescue isn't the answer. That might get those owed money an extra couple of pennies in the pound, but it only sets the stage for a repeat of what's happening far too often in this industry and another few years down the line it'll be another group of people being shafted again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) Setting aside all issue people may have about Livingston and the way they've gone about things since they came into existence, I actually do hope that the Trust manage to get control and the chance to put their Community Club plan into action.The worst thing that happened to football was moving away from that very concept....the concept that a club was owned by its members (fans). More clubs have gone into administration (and worse) since 1994 (over 50 in total) than ever did prior to that, and it's no coincidence that this was the time when it became fashionable to buy a football club. This is a bit of a bold statement, and one that I'll probably be slated heavily for....but I think there's a real chance that, if given the chance, the Livingston Trust could give the rest of Scottish football a real lesson on the kind of setup we should all be seeking for our clubs. One which, by its very nature, ensures proper governance and keeps a club operating within it's means whilst maximising the available income from the community in which they are based. Obviously their will be (more) casualties as the result of administration or liquidation when people are forced to take next to nothing (if anything) by way of a settlement....but that can't be helped and having another rich businessman who's just after a play thing coming to the rescue isn't the answer. That might get those owed money an extra couple of pennies in the pound, but it only sets the stage for a repeat of what's happening far too often in this industry and another few years down the line it'll be another group of people being shafted again. Well, I will admit that livvy have taught a lot of people a lesson over these past 14 years. From small fry like me losing sub 10k (yeah, that's right, sub 10k is "small fry" in their eyes), to the likes of the none too bright McGuinness being fleeced out of 4 million in what was probably one of the most sordid episodes involving a scottish football club. Personally, I'm fast approaching a place where I think the only hope of there ever being an honest professional club in Livingston is via the Trust model..............but it simply cannot be handed to them on a plate. We are all seeing that the people of WL really don't give too much of a rat's ass if this club exists or not. The only people who do seem to care are the Trust which actually might amount to little more than 30 or 40 active individuals, who really haven't been exactly high profile, and a slack handful of supporters none of whom have demonstrated anything like the commitment of supporters of other clubs in trouble. It might well be time to test how much the Trust and the people want it. If the difference between this mob getting off scot free or folding is indeed a few pence in the pound, then I for one would forego an administered settlement, and I'd bury them. Completely. Then, as a Council, I'd put a three year aid programme in place to help a Trust run club get itself established in the EOSL, and get itself self financing.............not one penny from the public purse after three years. If the Trust have the balls to work from humble beginnings a la Gretna 2008, then fair enough. If all they want is an SFL1 status club handed to them on a plate, and public money to help them indulge in a bit of childhood fantasy, then let it fold, because that is what it would deserve. As to the stadium...........take it off them. Simple as that. Allow them to play there, but no more than that. Kill the hopes of the development rip off merchants for good. Oh..........and the rent would revert to monthly in advance. A clear contract in place that should the football club fall behind by three payments, then out they go. This should no longer be about a councillor or two pissing public money towards a privately owned football club so that he can indulge himself every second Saturday. It is now about testing the desire of the people to commit to and carry out the self help work that has featured prominently in the history of every club in the country........except this one. As for their Trust being potentially capable of teaching us all how a provincial club should be fiscally managed...........pardon me if I don't hang my hat on that particular peg. To date, their Trust has been about the least engaging and dynamic organisation I can think of. I'm sure there are a good few P&B members who have active in raising funds or promoting Trusts in their own clubs. If any can point to where Livvy's efforts have ever so much as poked their head above the parapet of Trust mediocrity for so much as a miilisecond, I'd be interested to read about it. That to gain control, they need administration to happen, and for everyone to go unpaid yet again, is for me, not a comfortable birthing process. It essentially means they are happy for the debt to go unpaid, but just don't want to be associated with that message in any way shape or form. Behind the scenes though, you just know they'd be rooting for creditors to be swept away with nowt. Edited July 19, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloppyJag Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 £16 for a friendly!?Fucking hell! If you've gambled £220 on a season ticket you can now get into this "home" friendly game for a tenner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 FFS Duncan, No doubt if you were around when the titanic was sinking you would be rubbing your hands with glee, screaming at them because they believed the ship was watertight, or they should not have been able to afford the trip anyway because you couldn't! Actually you should be out helping KFTS collect logs for our funeral pyre & remember to get plenty the torture has been protracted enough! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 FFS Duncan, No doubt if you were around when the titanic was sinking you would be rubbing your hands with glee, screaming at them because they believed the ship was watertight, or they should not have been able to afford the trip anyway because you couldn't! Actually you should be out helping KFTS collect logs for our funeral pyre & remember to get plenty the torture has been protracted enough! He probably would also have defended the case for the lack of lifeboats too no doubt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 FFS Duncan, No doubt if you were around when the titanic was sinking you would be rubbing your hands with glee, screaming at them because they believed the ship was watertight, or they should not have been able to afford the trip anyway because you couldn't! Actually you should be out helping KFTS collect logs for our funeral pyre & remember to get plenty the torture has been protracted enough! No it's not! That is the whole point! Meadowbank creditors didn't get paid with the switch from Thistle to Livingston......no penalties to the club whatsoever. Livingston then set off on a 9 year rampage of debt accumulation knowing full well that a lot of people were being screwed over..........no penalty to Livingston FC. Yet here we are again..........and it amazes me that there are supporters of this mob who think they've been "tortured enough". You have got to be kidding me! Not once have you paid any punishment for your wrongdoing. I remember Hamilton being hit for 15 points for not fulfilling a fixture against Stenhousemuir. Compare that to the grand larceny undertaken by your mob over a protracted time period. I think that Livvy fans can retreat to a place that says "we've been punished enough" tells me that you really don't understand the impact of what your mob has adopted as their way to do business. I seriously do urge you to undertake thousands of pounds worth of work for someone and then be told you ain't getting paid despite them carrying on merrily as before building bars, and talking of big money player sales. Come back and tell me that "oh well, that's cool, it's only money". I really don't think you understand just how rotten Livingston FC really are, and for how long it has been going on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 No it's not! That is the whole point! Meadowbank creditors didn't get paid with the switch from Thistle to Livingston......no penalties to the club whatsoever. Livingston then set off on a 9 year rampage of debt accumulation knowing full well that a lot of people were being screwed over..........no penalty to Livingston FC. Yet here we are again..........and it amazes me that there are supporters of this mob who think they've been "tortured enough". You have got to be kidding me! Not once have you paid any punishment for your wrongdoing. I remember Hamilton being hit for 15 points for not fulfilling a fixture against Stenhousemuir. Compare that to the grand larceny undertaken by your mob over a protracted time period.I think that Livvy fans can retreat to a place that says "we've been punished enough" tells me that you really don't understand the impact of what your mob has adopted as their way to do business. I seriously do urge you to undertake thousands of pounds worth of work for someone and then be told you ain't getting paid despite them carrying on merrily as before building bars, and talking of big money player sales. Come back and tell me that "oh well, that's cool, it's only money". I really don't think you understand just how rotten Livingston FC really are, and for how long it has been going on. Phantom's-livi-lass and I are punters like the thousands of others who toddle off and pay their money to watch their teams on a Saturday. We are not into the politics of football. The folk you have a gripe with don't come anywhere near these forums. Having lost so much money you are perfectly justified in screaming at us as much as you do but at the end of the day we had as much input into how the club was run then as it has been under Massone. I am not looking for the club to get off Scot free but I think being expelled completely from the SFL would be harsh on the remaining fans who care about it. I await you next diatribe with trepidation . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 and 15 years later - I doubt the Livi fans could raise £1500 in 12 months! I'm led to believe that the "Fighting Fund" has significantly less in it than the £149.50 raised by Massone's request for donations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I'm led to believe that the "Fighting Fund" has significantly less in it than the £149.50 raised by Massone's request for donations. Well, we all know you are easily led. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 No it's not! That is the whole point! Meadowbank creditors didn't get paid with the switch from Thistle to Livingston......no penalties to the club whatsoever. Livingston then set off on a 9 year rampage of debt accumulation knowing full well that a lot of people were being screwed over..........no penalty to Livingston FC. Yet here we are again..........and it amazes me that there are supporters of this mob who think they've been "tortured enough". You have got to be kidding me! Not once have you paid any punishment for your wrongdoing. I remember Hamilton being hit for 15 points for not fulfilling a fixture against Stenhousemuir. Compare that to the grand larceny undertaken by your mob over a protracted time period.I think that Livvy fans can retreat to a place that says "we've been punished enough" tells me that you really don't understand the impact of what your mob has adopted as their way to do business. I seriously do urge you to undertake thousands of pounds worth of work for someone and then be told you ain't getting paid despite them carrying on merrily as before building bars, and talking of big money player sales. Come back and tell me that "oh well, that's cool, it's only money". I really don't think you understand just how rotten Livingston FC really are, and for how long it has been going on. Duncan I do understand your anger I would be & am the same about the way the club has been run, but it was not the fans who didn't pay you it was the board! We have been fed lies for years about the finances & bills etc then a new big man comes in & promises to pay their way only to shaft everyone over again! I wish to god that severe penalties had been put in place long ago & therefore the club would not attract these chancers, & I hope the council & the sfl get their fingers out & deal with it once & for all, I don't care where my team are as long as I have Livi to support & it's run in the proper manner, To be honest I'm sick of getting the crap for something I can do nothing about, I get grief on here for not doing enough & grief on livilions for doing too much, why do I take it? because at the end of the day I love my team & do want them to pull through & prove we are not money grabbing, glory-hunting, selfish shits!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee4life2137 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I'm led to believe that the "Fighting Fund" has significantly less in it than the £149.50 raised by Massone's request for donations. Do Livi fans care so little for the club? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I'm led to believe that the "Fighting Fund" has significantly less in it than the £149.50 raised by Massone's request for donations. You sound pleased by that (if it is true). I take it you didn't contribute then even though you constantly insist that you are a fan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.