Livingston - all the threads merged

[Skyline Drifter]

It's not looking good.

Only 108 Livi fans at Palmerston yesterday, which hardly swelled the receipts to what the interim manager would have wanted. Allied with that, there is a complete misunderstanding amongst the Livi fans about what they should be doing now that McGruther has found out just how bad the finances are.

Don't know how much Livi would have received after the police, stewards vat was paid but something is better than nothing.

There were 130 Livi fans at Palmerston yesterday by the turnstile readings. The 108 figure floating about the press came when one of the journalists actually counted them at one point.

Livi haven't received anything yet but in the next week they'll get a chequefor 40% of the net proceeds (after VAT) which is how it works. The bills for running the game are the home team's problems and they keep an extra 20% to deal with that. If that means an additional profit, great. If it means a loss, too bad.

I don't think Livi will be remaining in business or going under on the strength of their share of the gate yesterday anyway!

Edited July 26, 2009 by Skyline Drifter

[cowdenbeath]

Maybe. I would be suprised if they (the Herald) weren't and I'm resigned to Division 2 certainly. They did have some guy from the league quoted though and he made the point they wouldn't be able to elect a new team to the league while stating Airdrie and Cowden would benefit. After signing the players we've signed I dread to think what would happen if we were to go back up by the way so I'm hoping you're right and it doesn't happen!!!

I still think if Livi fold it will be a 9 team first division, it would be a bit late in the day moving teams about with the fixtures already published.

If Cowden did get pushed up a league I don't think it would make much difference to us squad wise as most of last seasons side were contracted for the coming season anyway.

I agree with you however it would be a big difference for Airdrie a completly different ball game squad wise as you would have cut your budget back after relegation and would be at a big disadvantage.

Edited July 26, 2009 by cowdenbeath

[cowdenbeath]

Don't know how much Livi would have received after the police, stewards vat was paid but something is better than nothing.

There were 130 Livi fans at Palmerston yesterday by the turnstile readings. The 108 figure floating about the press came when one of the journalists actually counted them at one point.

Livi haven't received anything yet but in the next week they'll get a chequefor 40% of the net proceeds (after VAT) which is how it works. The bills for running the game are the home team's problems and they keep an extra 20% to deal with that. If that means an additional profit, great. If it means a loss, too bad.

I don't think Livi will be remaining in business or going under on the strength of their share of the gate yesterday anyway!

I would agree with that SD whatever they make from yesterday and next Saturday at Cliftonhill (If they last that long) won't make much of a difference.

[thejailender]

I was reading on the livilions website that the youth teams at Livingston have all be disbanded. Up to the U17's level anyway - noting about the Under 19's, not sure what is happening with them.

I know these are the sirt of things that happen when clubs go into administration. But it's a shame for Livi (and their fans) as their youth system has managed to take through some cracking players over the last few years

[teekasule]

Livi haven't received anything yet but in the next week they'll get a chequefor 40% of the net proceeds (after VAT) which is how it works. The bills for running the game are the home team's problems and they keep an extra 20% to deal with that. If that means an additional profit, great. If it means a loss, too bad.

cheers for that - always wondered how the takings etc. were worked out for cup games.

looking forward to a good game on Sat - could it be their last ? You'd think that would make any Livi fan turn up to see them ?

kasule rock.

[cowdenbeath]

I was reading on the livilions website that the youth teams at Livingston have all be disbanded. Up to the U17's level anyway - noting about the Under 19's, not sure what is happening with them.

I know these are the sirt of things that happen when clubs go into administration. But it's a shame for Livi (and their fans) as their youth system has managed to take through some cracking players over the last few years

I suppose that would be the first things to go. I don't understand why they remained full time at the end of the season. They should have done what Clyde done and went part time.

[Mr Tourette]

200 pages

How many more before this is all over?

[cowdenbeath]

cheers for that - always wondered how the takings etc. were worked out for cup games.

looking forward to a good game on Sat - could it be their last ? You'd think that would make any Livi fan turn up to see them ?

kasule rock.

Its almost a local game for them you would think that they would turn out in decent numbers.

[Skyline Drifter]

cheers for that - always wondered how the takings etc. were worked out for cup games.

looking forward to a good game on Sat - could it be their last ? You'd think that would make any Livi fan turn up to see them ?

kasule rock.

There was, and still is at this point, a reasonable chance that Saturday's against us would be their last. There were only just over 100 bothered!

The Scottish Cup is slightly different incidentally as that's an SFA competition. That's how the split for SFL cups is worked out.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

cheers for that - always wondered how the takings etc. were worked out for cup games.

looking forward to a good game on Sat - could it be their last ? You'd think that would make any Livi fan turn up to see them ?

kasule rock.

I really hope there will be a lot of us going on saturday, for the Queen's game we were only made aware of how dire the situation was on friday (some of us had an idea of what was coming but others were still hopefull we were pessimistic.) by that time the transport had already been arranged for those of us who were going anyway & could not be changed in such short notice & public transport is a nightmare to there, a lot of folk were gutted, so hopefully they will make the effort for this game as it's make or break time!

I was saddened about our youth teams even though I knew it was inevitable, the under 19's are still there possibly due to the fact that a lot of them are in the first team.

I have a wee question for you all: does a lot of clubs have supporter's trusts? & do they work with the clubs? There seems to be a lot of confusion at Livi (mainly seeds of doubt planted by Massone & partly because we are a young club so not much experience) people seem to see it as support the club OR support the trust, so if you back the trust you are being detrimental to the club, I would really appreciate some comments/history on other club trusts, although I do not have any problem with the trust I'd like to find out if other clubs had this sort of problem.

[jimbo]

Some people are giving money to the fighting fund (which has all of £3000) whilst others on Livi Lions are still saying that they wont give anything direct to the club just in case Massolini gets his hands on it.

Where are you getting this stuff from? I read on livilions last week that they had over £5000 and I know that a lot of people have contributed since then. It also said they got over £400 in a bucket collection yesterday at Palmerston from the 100 odd that were there.

And I think you are wrong about the confusion. I can't see anyone saying that now on livilions. Now that the adsministrator is in charge Massone can't get his hands on anything and the bulk of the fans know this.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Where are you getting this stuff from? I read on livilions last week that they had over £5000 and I know that a lot of people have contributed since then. It also said they got over £400 in a bucket collection yesterday at Palmerston from the 100 odd that were there.

And I think you are wrong about the confusion. I can't see anyone saying that now on livilions. Now that the adsministrator is in charge Massone can't get his hands on anything and the bulk of the fans know this.

Jimbo I think the fund was almost £8000 & that wasn't counting the bucket or monies that people have donated that could not make the game yesterday, It will be more than that by now, I think it's like chinese whispers here sometimes! The amount is there to see on Livilions for anyone who wishes to know & is updated as often as possible.

[FilthyMack]

200 pages

How many more before this is all over?

When I saw the two hunert I was immediately reminded of the Gretna thread. Surely this will determine the bigger loss to Scottish football.

[ObserverFromAfar]

Jimbo I think the fund was almost £8000 & that wasn't counting the bucket or monies that people have donated that could not make the game yesterday, It will be more than that by now, I think it's like chinese whispers here sometimes! The amount is there to see on Livilions for anyone who wishes to know & is updated as often as possible.

Hello Lass,

With players pay day due this week, THursday/Friday (last Thursday or Last day of the month) and no doubt much/most of the non-playing staff still due payment, do yuo envisage the Fighting FUnd to be donated to cover these expenses, or "saved" to help a bid to buy the club out of administration?

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Hello Lass,

With players pay day due this week, THursday/Friday (last Thursday or Last day of the month) and no doubt much/most of the non-playing staff still due payment, do yuo envisage the Fighting FUnd to be donated to cover these expenses, or "saved" to help a bid to buy the club out of administration?

I don't really know, The trust are going to discuss this with Mr McGruther to see where this cash is needed most, I know the money is needed asap in order for the club to survive so cannot see it being saved at the moment.

[Yoss]

The players are playing for nothing, for the time being.

[hotrodqos]

Don't know how much Livi would have received after the police, stewards vat was paid but something is better than nothing.

There were 130 Livi fans at Palmerston yesterday by the turnstile readings. The 108 figure floating about the press came when one of the journalists actually counted them at one point.

Livi haven't received anything yet but in the next week they'll get a chequefor 40% of the net proceeds (after VAT) which is how it works. The bills for running the game are the home team's problems and they keep an extra 20% to deal with that. If that means an additional profit, great. If it means a loss, too bad.

I don't think Livi will be remaining in business or going under on the strength of their share of the gate yesterday anyway!

Cheers S,D I often wondered if cup ties were split down the middle or not.

[ObserverFromAfar]

I don't really know, The trust are going to discuss this with Mr McGruther to see where this cash is needed most, I know the money is needed asap in order for the club to survive so cannot see it being saved at the moment.

I suppose that there may be requirements for the money to be spent "evenly" across all debts, rather than one particular party if the money is handed to the club/administrator. Just a guess/hunch, rather than knowledge.

May be an idea to suggest a "hardship fund" type thing is set-up for employees to "apply" for money to help with pressing bills and keep their creditors at bay, with the "fund" being run independently of the club. Just a thought, not sure about viability. The PLayers Union may be able to suggest something here.

[Reynard]

There was, and still is at this point, a reasonable chance that Saturday's against us would be their last. There were only just over 100 bothered!

The Scottish Cup is slightly different incidentally as that's an SFA competition. That's how the split for SFL cups is worked out.

I was reading your post on the gate split and was just about to ask what the SFA method of gate splitting was?

I assume the SFL method is just exactly the same as it was going back to the years when league gates were also split? And the SFA will have a different way of operating for no reason whatsoever.

[Skyline Drifter]

I was reading your post on the gate split and was just about to ask what the SFA method of gate splitting was?

I assume the SFL method is just exactly the same as it was going back to the years when league gates were also split? And the SFA will have a different way of operating for no reason whatsoever.

The SFL League Cup and Challenge Cups are simply split 60/40 on the net proceeds. I've no idea if that's what they used to do when League gates were split or not. At a guess I'd have said not and since the same number of games were played and costs would even out it would be logical just to split the gate down the middle but like I say I have no idea. How recently did they actually do this? Must be back to before the creation of the Premier Division anyway surely?

The Scottish Cup is very similar to be honest. Before they reorganised recently the situation was:

Rounds 1-2: Exactly as the SFL, 60/40 split

Rounds 3-5: Net proceeds split: 5% to the SFA as a Levy, 57% Home club, 38% Away Club (in other words, 60/40 after the levy is taken off).

Semi Finals and Finals are run by the SFA and clubs effectively get 40% of the net takings each. (that's presumably what happens with SFL League Cup semi finals and finals also as well as the Challenge Cup Final).

I'm not sure since the changeover what round the levy comes in at now. I think it's the 3rd round still but as we haven't had a home third round tie since the changeover I'm not certain and it may now be the 4th.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Skyline Drifter