ayrmad Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm talking about the integrity of the league *competition* rather than the integrity of the SFL as a governing body. Fair enough,but as there is no hard and fast rules for Livis' situation how can this be achieved? The decisions will still be made by clubs with self-interest in the situation. SFL and others have had ample opportunities to put sanctions in place for a given set of circumstances,preferring to look at every situation on it's own merits. Our football is governed at all senior levels by self-interest rather than what's best for the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Good grief, I've been away on holiday for a few days and this thread's gone absolutely postal!It's good to see this reckoning finally come about, especially after someone predicted last week that this could drag on all season. Either way the rest of the league will know what on earth they're dealing with this season, its the uncertainty which has pointlessly dragged on all summer which has grated on me, thanks to the hierarchy's refusal to intervene. And before you start waving your arms about, Yoss, and demanding to know what the League should have done- well- Livingston, transparently, were insolvent fucks months ago, who couldn't afford a bus ticket to Bathgate, let alone finance an entire season in SFL Division One. So they should have been booted out at the end of the season- and allowed the fans who are motivated and want to get their hands dirty in building a new club, to prepare their new side for the EOS and try and regain the league place from there. I've really no idea why Massone is playing the current situation this way at all. It may well be brinkmanship, but I think he'd be likely to fold if the administrator holds firm. And this McGruther character looks/sounds like he doesn't suffer fools gladly, which must make it difficult for him to "negotiate" with Massone and keep a straight face. The same will probably hold when Rankine shows up for his audience tomorrow. There's only one certainty in all this- Livingston always, always, always get away with it. I have a sneaky feeling their luck is going to continue, Massone will take the 25k and then a grubby deal will be stitched up between the Council, MacDougall and the Trust with the creditors being fucked over yet again. But if they are allowed to continue in Div One with only a token points deduction, a slap on the wrist and a finger-wagging lecture from the blazers, then it will be an absolute scandal and will seriously call into question the integrity of the SFL. Message received and understood. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) ...by doing a little bit more than docking them a few points and allowing them to continue in Div 1 as though nothing's happened? There's been talk of relegation to Div 3, although I really can't see it happening owing to the disruption it will cause other clubs. To be fair, the Livi fans who post here don't seem to have a problem with that, as long as the club survives. And, in the longer term, a hard and fast set of rules should be established, outlining a clear and unambiguous process, enacted when a club becomes insolvent, so that clubs owners/chairmen are left in no doubt. If all the leagues in England can manage it then there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't happen up here. (I'm not disagreeing about the self interest thing) Edited July 27, 2009 by Ivo den Bieman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Had we already a watertight ruling regarding insolvent clubs Dundee would be kicking off in the Tayside Spit and Sawdust Division Three in a few weeks. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 ...by doing a little bit more than docking them a few points and allowing them to continue in Div 1 as though nothing's happened?There's been talk of relegation to Div 3 although I really can't see it happening owing to the disruption it was cause other clubs. To be fair the Livi fans who post here don't seem to have a problem with that as long as the club survives. And, in the longer term, a hard and fast rule should be established giving a clear set of stages as to what happens to a club when its insolvent- so that everyone knows the rules before hand. If all the leagues in England can manage it then there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't happen up here. (I'm not disagreeing about the self interest thing) I agree with you, I am just worried that Livis' fate if they avoid liquidation could be decided by clubs like my own,Airdrie,Raith etc where there is no gaurantee that a desicion will be made for the right reasons., 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Had we already a watertight ruling regarding insolvent clubs Dundee would be kicking off in the Tayside Spit and Sawdust Division Three in a few weeks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 That doesn't represent me in a good light. I'm more toned. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I agree with you, I am just worried that Livis' fate if they avoid liquidation could be decided by clubs like my own,Airdrie,Raith etc where there is no gaurantee that a desicion will be made for the right reasons., Yep, agreed. In any case the SFL will delay their announcement until McGruther's deadline has passed on Wednesday and they've had their meeting with him. I imagine the rumours of impending relegation to Division 3 might make the club less attractive to new "investors" so they won't want to be seen to do anything that will jeapordise a successful Livingston take-over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 That doesn't represent me in a good light. I'm done now. B) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Can someone explain to me what it is that is worth £25k from the creditors? Not an insolvency expert so words of one syllable preferred. Livingston Football club is a Limited Company and that company holds the league membership. Because the league membership is non transferable, the administrator does not have the usual option of putting the assets into a new company and selling that clean of any debts. He has to sell the existing company which means that the existing major shareholder has to be gotten out the way. Hence the offer. As I have said on this forum before, if the SFL is interested in rescuing clubs, they need to be a bit more flexible in allowing a transfer of the league membership in certain circumstances. Without that, the insolvency practitioner has his left arm tied to his right leg behind his back. He has very, very limited options. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 ....................................... the insolvency practitioner has his left arm tied to his right leg behind his back. He has very, very limited options. What lodge is that then? I read this the other day Do you really imagine that any firm of liquidators gives a toss about securing monies for creditors?They care solely about securing sufficient monies to cover their fees. Once that's been achieved they just want to close the file as soon as possible. Could this be true in Livi's case? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unthinkable Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I agree with you, I am just worried that Livis' fate if they avoid liquidation could be decided by clubs like my own,Airdrie,Raith etc where there is no gaurantee that a desicion will be made for the right reasons., We should look after ourselves this time as we have sacrificed our Premier League status for the greater good of Scottish Football once before, and look where that got us and the rest of Scottish Football. No doubt our board will give it the old "turkeys voting for Christmas" routine again, then watch us get relegated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo player Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Do you know, just thinking about this, the SFL could actually do something sensible here, if they really put the boot into Livi on the basis that few tears would be shed at their demise and it would give a good hard kick up the backside of any other chancers that are spending more money than they have. (Present company excepted of course) Edited July 27, 2009 by banjo player 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Silverheels Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) "Do you really imagine that any firm of liquidators gives a toss about securing monies for creditors?" "They care solely about securing sufficient monies to cover their fees. Once that's been achieved they just want to close the file as soon as possible." I think when Airdrie went bust, KPMG became their biggest creditor. Edited July 27, 2009 by Jay Silverheels 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Check out the Twitter update on the Ferranti Christ website - Don Massone won't be pleased 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo player Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 link to livi.con The Twitting will be gone soon no doubt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 That's an absolute outrage.Doesn't he realise that if the club folds he'll get nothing? Surely £25k is preferable to that? If this was at Ayr I'd be paying the man a wee nocturnal visit, put it that way. ............but this has been the default position of Livingston all along.................."take this sh1t offer or we will make sure you get nothing". In 2004, I attempted to go back and take the equipment from site that had not been paid for, and which I could prove had never been paid for. That way, they would only have to deal with my labour. When I went to the ground to speak with them, I was threatened with Police action unless I left the site immediately, and that possession was all that mattered. All Massone is now doing is threatening the club with the same sort of behaviour as the club threatened creditors in 2004. This really is nothing more than "live by the sword, die by the sword" and any Livvy fan who thinks it isn't is simply ignoring their own history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 A fifth columnist within the ranks. Looks like this will be yet another Italian campaign that ends in embarassment, infighting and the sixth reverse gear for the tank back to Naples. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkboy Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 link to livi.conThe Twitting will be gone soon no doubt Glad I got to see it before it goes anyway. Fantastic message that will obviously go unnoticed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 ............but this has been the default position of Livingston all along.................."take this sh1t offer or we will make sure you get nothing". In 2004, I attempted to go back and take the equipment from site that had not been paid for, and which I could prove had never been paid for. That way, they would only have to deal with my labour. When I went to the ground to speak with them, I was threatened with Police action unless I left the site immediately, and that possession was all that mattered.All Massone is now doing is threatening the club with the same sort of behaviour as the club threatened creditors in 2004. This really is nothing more than "live by the sword, die by the sword" and any Livvy fan who thinks it isn't is simply ignoring their own history. So you would blame the club now for the club then's actions? I don't understand the logic. I know they have constantly cheated and I am aware that their fans are the most revisionist in Scotland, but surely you have to have some sympathy for genuine fans? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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