Tryfield Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I hope Livi survive this. It's been dragging on far too long now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I didn't mean that.Do you feel sorry for Livingston fans? When you said, "why should football supporters feel sorry for Livingston?" I took that to include the club's support. Human decency generally kicks in to feel sorry for someone who looses something the love. You compared Livi to a company going bust, say ASDA, for example, which doesn't have a support to feel sorry for. If ASDA went bust then thousands of people would be out of work. I dare say I'd have some sympathy for their plight. Your argument lacks credence. I'm sure Livingston have many decent fans and I do feel for them at this time. It must be gut-wrenching. However, years of financial mismanagement has brought this situation to a head and it appears that only now are a group of fans trying to do something about it. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. I'm sorry if I sound heartless, but Livingston FC is no 'ordinary' football club. I sincerely hope the club survives and all those decent Livi supporters have a reason to feel passionate about this great game of football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I didn't mean that.Do you feel sorry for Livingston fans? When you said, "why should football supporters feel sorry for Livingston?" I took that to include the club's support. Human decency generally kicks in to feel sorry for someone who looses something the love. You compared Livi to a company going bust, say ASDA, for example, which doesn't have a support to feel sorry for. I was on about non-Livingston fans. I feel sorry for the fans, but not the club. It's a pity that Livi fans are being punished for boardroom failings, but for me anyway, it's no different to people being dumped on the dole due to their company making a mess of things. Additionally, with a company going bust, I generally feel sorry for the workers, but not the firm. It's a shame people have to suffer because of incompetence from others. Obviously we see things differently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I hope Livingston survive, and get a penalty that makes them know, that they can't keep breaking the rules. 10 points would suffice, but some probably want more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi 293 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) I feel sorry for the fans, but not the club. Fair enough. It's curious, though. Without the fans and staff, what actually is "the club"? Angelo Massone and a League membership? I'd join you in saying I don't feel sorry for him at all should he do as appears likely. Edited July 27, 2009 by Livi 293 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObserverFromAfar Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) No football supporter should have to put up with what honest, dedicated ordinary Joes like me are having to put up with this week. Now, LLD, you now may begin to understand in a small way how I and many others felt in the run up to the last Meadowbank Thistle league game at Morton in May 1995, whilst you helped a couple of others "edit" the programme/became an apologist for that regieme. Belittling what me and others were campaigning against for the previous 2 years and more, and what we were feeling running up to that trip to Cappielow. Consider yourself an "ordinary Joe"? Don't kid yourself on LLD. Edited July 27, 2009 by ObserverFromAfar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Travelling Man Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 is says they are both owed £500K - each. not a total of the two. There has to be some doubt about the arithmetic used by the Trust in calculating the total debt, which is probably bad enough but not quite at the figures quoted. What is absolutely correct is that everything is contingent on Angelo Massone seeing sense. The debts have to be tackled and thay have to be tackled without him. My understanding from sources close to them is that the Rankine group has made an opening offer of £400,000 to the interim manager, with scope to increase this further if other parties such as the Trust join in this bid, something that was agreed in principle at a meeting convened last a few weeks ago by Angela Constance MSP. From the outside this seems the only way to save your club and it would seem strange if everyone could not now unite under this banner. The bid may still not be successful but this really seems to be the only game in town. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi 293 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) If ASDA went bust then thousands of people would be out of work. I dare say I'd have some sympathy for their plight. Your argument lacks credence. I'm sure Livingston have many decent fans and I do feel for them at this time. It must be gut-wrenching. However, years of financial mismanagement has brought this situation to a head and it appears that only now are a group of fans trying to do something about it. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. I'm sorry if I sound heartless, but Livingston FC is no 'ordinary' football club. I sincerely hope the club survives and all those decent Livi supporters have a reason to feel passionate about this great game of football. Many supporters are now only old enough to do something about it. No 12 year old is going to reject the offer of a game of football when their Dad wants to take them to their local club. (Although KFTS believes they should...) The employee ASDA example doesn't take away from my argument. In both cases you feel for the employees, in neither case would others feel sorry for the company itself, but in football, supporters add to the equation. In any case, Michael W clarified what he said and the whole example's now null and void. Ironically enough, I don't think I'm actually disagreeing with you here at all. Edited July 27, 2009 by Livi 293 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Fair enough.It's curious, though. Without the fans and staff, what actually is "the club"? Angelo Massone and a League membership? I'd join you in saying I don't feel sorry for him at all should he do as appears likely. I'd use "the club" to describe the business side of things, the employer if you like. The fans are those that keep it running by putting in money as consumers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi 293 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'd use "the club" to describe the business side of things, the employer if you like. The fans are those that keep it running by putting in money as consumers. In that case, I think you'd struggle to even find a Livi fan who feels sorry for 'the Club' I think this just proves that words can be funny, tricky little things when emotions are running high. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefull_Ton Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I wish I could access the posts by Livingston fans from when Morton were going through their troubles. Many of them would be unable to sit down tonight because of the bites on their arses! Comments like (and I paraphrase)"there is no place in Scottish football for teams like Morton"; "Teams like Livingston, with their purpose-built stadia, are the way forward for Scottish football"; "history has no place in todays football" all spring to mind. At that time we received NO support from Livingston fans, they were pompous in their views of our plight and looking at THEIR history, all I can see is a list of fly-by-night owners who, continually sponge off the few fans they can claim and then move on and pass the baton to the next shyster. Livingston, the club or the fans get no sympathy from me. I will reserve that for the fans of teams like Medowbank Thistle and Clydebank. The real tragedy of this whole situation is that another team which cheated the system, i.e. Airdrie United, could once again be the benefactors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 In that case, I think you'd struggle to even find a Livi fan who feels sorry for 'the Club'I think this just proves that words can be funny, tricky little things when emotions are running high. Yep, it sure does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 The employee ASDA example doesn't take away from my argument. In both cases you feel for the employees, in neither case would others feel sorry for the company itself, but in football, supporters add to the equation. In any case, Michael W clarified what he said and the whole example's now null and void. I'm not sure I see the distinction between supporters losing their football club and employees losing their job. In both cases, it is possible to feel a degree of sympathy. That is why I took issue with what you wrote below: You compared Livi to a company going bust, say ASDA, for example, which doesn't have a support to feel sorry for. Many supporters are now only old enough to do something about it. No 12 year old is going to reject the offer of a game of football when their Dad wants to take them to their local club. (Although KFTS believes they should...) But many Livi supporters were very excited last summer when Massone took over and Landi's side got off to such a good start. Many other people could only see the situation ending in disaster. Haven't Livi been down this road before? Shouldn't the fans have seen it coming? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peil Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I wish I could access the posts by Livingston fans from when Morton were going through their troubles. Many of them would be unable to sit down tonight because of the bites on their arses!Comments like (and I paraphrase)"there is no place in Scottish football for teams like Morton"; "Teams like Livingston, with their purpose-built stadia, are the way forward for Scottish football"; "history has no place in todays football" all spring to mind. At that time we received NO support from Livingston fans, they were pompous in their views of our plight and looking at THEIR history, all I can see is a list of fly-by-night owners who, continually sponge off the few fans they can claim and then move on and pass the baton to the next shyster. Put it this way, can you imagine Livingston fans would have helped fans of another club clear snow off the pitch to make sure a game was on the next day... Me neither 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi 293 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm not sure I see the distinction between supporters losing their football club and employees losing their job. In both cases, it is possible to feel a degree of sympathy. Agree. Misunderstanding rather than disagreement over any particular issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi 293 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Put it this way, can you imagine Livingston fans would have helped fans of another club clear snow off the pitch to make sure a game was on the next day...Me neither Why wouldn't they, exactly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLD Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Now, LLD, you now may begin to understand in a small way how I and many others felt in the run up to the last Meadowbank Thistle league game at Morton in May 1995, whilst you helped a couple of others "edit" the programme/became an apologist for that regieme. Belittling what me and others were campaigning against for the previous 2 years and more, and what we were feeling running up to that trip to Cappielow.Consider yourself an "ordinary Joe"? Don't kid yourself on LLD. Don't presume to know what my attitude or feelings were during the relocation. You had your opinion, I had my opinion on the move. I saw/see Livingston as a continuation of Meadowbank Thistle, and you seem to disagree. To suggest that I was 'happy' about the Meadowbank Thistle name disappearing is a gross misrepresentation of the truth. Neither did I belittle anyone. I wasn't even involved in writing the club programme for most of the final season at Meadowbank. Dig out your programmes - I quit early in the season. Edited July 28, 2009 by LLD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I wish I could access the posts by Livingston fans from when Morton were going through their troubles. Many of them would be unable to sit down tonight because of the bites on their arses!Comments like (and I paraphrase)"there is no place in Scottish football for teams like Morton"; "Teams like Livingston, with their purpose-built stadia, are the way forward for Scottish football"; "history has no place in todays football" all spring to mind. At that time we received NO support from Livingston fans, they were pompous in their views of our plight and looking at THEIR history, all I can see is a list of fly-by-night owners who, continually sponge off the few fans they can claim and then move on and pass the baton to the next shyster. Livingston, the club or the fans get no sympathy from me. I will reserve that for the fans of teams like Medowbank Thistle and Clydebank. The real tragedy of this whole situation is that another team which cheated the system, i.e. Airdrie United, could once again be the benefactors. So EVERY Livi fan said those things did we? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefull_Ton Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 So EVERY Livi fan said those things did we? No, not EVERY Livi fan posts on here. All I can say is that there were NONE [on here] who were sympathetic to or supportive of our cause at the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 No, not EVERY Livi fan posts on here. All I can say is that there were NONE [on here] who were sympathetic to or supportive of our cause at the time. Which does not mean none were supportive to your cause, you are therefore saying you have no sympathy for Livi fans because some fans were nasty when you needed help, surely there is no need to tar us all with the one brush? I for sure don't think all queens fans are replicas of KFTS or that all Kelty fans are exactly like AND180Y. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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