PELE Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I am surpised Livi are not protesting about being moved to the 3rd division forum, because they are too good for it. Watch, they will refuse to post soon! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Has this game been postponed ? sorry if it's been mentioned already Yes. Or at least we think so at the moment but watch this space. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Simply unbelievable tonight. For what its worth I reckon Livingston are making a huge mistake by not turning up tomorrow, so much so that if I was in the under-19 squad I would be rallying the troops in an attempt to take matters into my own hands and go and play Shire! I assume McGruther and the consortium have taken advice before reaching this decision. I can't believe they would make this call without having at least canvassed opinion from around the League. Maybe an independent lawyer has told them not to turn up tomorrow...? It's a massive risk and I think they've done themselves no favours. They will now be lucky to stay in the SFL in my book. Spencer Fearn and Jim McInally's comments have been spot on. Livi are the main villains of this farce but the SFL's handling of this has been ridiculous and now one of the best days of the season is completely overshadowed by an issue that should have been dealt with in full by last Thursday at the absolute latest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I am surpised Livi are not protesting about being moved to the 3rd division forum, because they are too good for it. Watch, they will refuse to post soon! I like this forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rankine Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Unlikely in this case Nice one! An even worse analogy than I first realised 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 My dislike of Livingston increases by the second. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinheed Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I'll try again then; I do not think Livi are too good for the third division & I would be very happy just to survive. That ok? Nope,try again,this time on yer knees 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) I have a couple of questions which Hibee Jibee or Skyline Drifter might be best placed to answer. Don't go placing your mortgage of what I say ... I'm sad enough to get 9 out of 10 right, but I invite Skyline to come along and dispute the 10th ... anyway, here's my interpretation of it. Is there a limit on the penalty for not fulfilling a fixture? Could the club be expelled for this regardless of whether the administrator has a potential buyer for a 3rd Division Livi? The SFL can take any action they wish. In history this has happened 5 times...: On 2 occasions (Renton 1894-95, Bo'ness and Armadale in 1932-33) they team was expelled and on 1 occasion (Hamilton in 1999-00) they were deducted 15 points. Dykeshead and Brechin received a warning in 1924-25 [their game was unfulfilled as they ran out of dates before the 30th April deadline] - while no action was taken against Morton v Hearts in 1915-16 due to prevailing War conditions. 28.4 Any club without just cause failing to fulfil its fixture obligations in respect of any such match under the jurisdiction of the League on the appointed date or dates shall for each offence be liable to the deduction of points in respect of a League Championship match, and/or to such other punishment as the Management Committee may determine.28.4.1 The club failing to fulfil its fixture obligations shall be liable to pay compensation for any expenses actually incurred as a direct result of the failure. The amount of compensation will be decided by the Management Committee. It should also be noted that there is no right of appeal over a Rule 28 ruling (refer to Rule 76.4). Edited August 7, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Snuffleupagus Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I'm neither HJ or SD, but I believe the answer is "yes".In fact, I think most rules regarding punishments are open enough to allow the SFL to do what they see fit. Thanks for that. I had a feeling that there were no set penalties. Oh well, Livi are fucked then - buyer or no buyer! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Snuffleupagus Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The SFL can take any action they wish. In history this has happened 5 times...: On 2 occasions (Renton 1894-95, Bo'ness and Armadale in 1932-33) they team was expelled and on 1 occasion (Hamilton in 1999-00) they were deducted 15 points. Dykeshead and Brechin received a warning in 1924-25 [their game was unfulfilled as they ran out of dates before the 30th April deadline] - while no action was taken against Morton v Hearts in 1915-16 due to prevailing War conditions. </div> It should also be noted that there is no right of appeal over a Rule 28 ruling (refer to Rule 76.4).[/size][/font][/size][/font] You certainly know your rules Sir. Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I'll try again then; I do not think Livi are too good for the third division & I would be very happy just to survive. That ok? IMO, your sincerity is beyond doubt. Keep the fight going for a club you can be proud of 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It's a question of interpretation, but in my opinion Livingston would clearly be in breah of 123...</FONT> and there might also be a section of Club Licensing... Remember that East Stirlingshire and SFL are also SFA members, and as such Livingston scratching may be an infringement against them. Let's be quite clear what Livingston scratching from tomorrow's game means, put in context, if they decide to go down that past. I'm only away of such a thing having happend 5 times ever: in 1894-95 Renton refused to turn up for a game versus Dundee Wanderers in 1932-33 Bo'ness and Armadale failed to turn up for games and/or pay gate guarentees in 1999-00 Hamilton failed to turn up for a game v Stenhousemuir due to a players strike On the first 2 occasions, the clubs were simply expelled. On the latter occasion, fined 15 points. in 1915-16 a game between Morton and Hearts was unplayed (due to transport difficulties resulting from World War I, it was impossible to play the tie before the 30th April cut-off) in 1924-25, Brechin and Dykeshead failed to fulfil a game due to the season running out If Livingston fail to turn up tomorrow, it can surely only be construed as with the earlier batch of cases. They know about the game, it has been officially fixtured. It isn't the season's end, there is no World War in progress. They are in the Third Division until such time as the SFL MC decision is appealled and over-turned. If they scratch tomorrow's game, then throw the book at them IMO... This doesn't matter to anything, but as far as I can see Renton didn't suffer any penalty and played on for two or three years afterwards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Spencer Fearn and Jim McInally's comments have been spot on. Livi are the main villains of this farce but the SFL's handling of this has been ridiculous and now one of the best days of the season is completely overshadowed by an issue that should have been dealt with in full by last Thursday at the absolute latest. It was Livingston FC who left it until 4:50pm today to tell the SFL, the media and the fans they weren't turning up tomorrow. Why leave it until then? What could the SFL have done? Nothing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 You certainly know your rules Sir. Cheers http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/res/...%20116-1592.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 IMO, your sincerity is beyond doubt. Keep the fight going for a club you can be proud of Well said. No matter what depths the club looks set to plumb, many fans will retain their dignity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 This doesn't matter to anything, but as far as I can see Renton didn't suffer any penalty and played on for two or three years afterwards. My point is really broader - in the entire history of the SFL, a situation like this has occurred on really just 2 occasions (Renton / Hamilton). That's what for me makes Livi's actions so diabolical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It was Livingston FC who left it until 4:50pm today to tell the SFL, the media and the fans they weren't turning up tomorrow. Why leave it until then? What could the SFL have done? Nothing... It may well be the spin placed upon statements, but David Longmuir's 'no question of demotion...' statement last Thursday, followed by a demotion, has fucked the SFL's credibility. Heads need to roll at Hampden, notwithstanding any decision about Livvy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Blue Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Hari kari, also known as sepuku, is an ancient form of ritual suicide that defeated samurai, or those whose shame was 'too unbearable' would use to restore their honor in death. In sepuku, one would take a wakizashi (short sword) and dissembowel oneself. The less noise you made while doing this, the braver you were and therefore the more honorable, however this did not last long as not long after you had begun, a close friend, comrade, or enemy would put you out of your misery by cleaving your head from your shoulders in one swift blow of the katana (another japanese sword). Even though in modern times the prospect of decapitating one of your friends or relatives sounds completely against normal 'friendly' behavior, being asked to asist your friend or enemies' escape from shame was considered a great honor, as was using this as a tool to escape. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It may well be the spin placed upon statements, but David Longmuir's 'no question of demotion...' statement last Thursday, followed by a demotion, has fucked the SFL's credibility. Heads need to roll at Hampden, notwithstanding any decision about Livvy. I think we also need a re-write of the rules: both on admin punishment, and on-the-spot action. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think we also need a re-write of the rules: both on admin punishment, and on-the-spot action. Perhaps, one positive may come out of all this: lessons will be learned. I sincerely hope so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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