seb530 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well that is a 'simple' case, because what is happening in the real world is that the appeal was explicitly not being 'prejudiced' by Livingston playing tomorrow, and the bids for the club will be harmed by the reality of a points deduction/expulsion from the SFL. Therefore McGruther's reasoning is logically incorrect and at worst completely stupid. assuming they dont win... or.. if the rules are correct and "legitamitely" livingston are still a 1st division club then how can they dock points for a game we werent actually legitimately meant to play? risky tactic tho.. i would most definitely agree as those bunch of tw@ts at the SFL will no doubt ignore any rule book and inflict more punishment 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I see the moderators on Livi Lions are losing the plot and banning fans of other clubs. Even the very reasonable Millfield Marksman has been booted off now. Maybe Massone has taken over running of the site 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLD Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Other points:I think Livingston have conducted themselves deplorably all day today and frankly any sympathy at all for them has now evaporated. They have had two days to decide what to do. I think they should be playing this fixture but leaving that aside for the moment that they clearly aren't going to do so but waited until after 5pm on Friday night to publish it is disgraceful. That they released a statement at 5pm announcing an appeal and mentioning nothing about failing to appear for tomorrow's fixture is doubly disgraceful. Instead we had rumours and half truths flying around for an additional hour or so before it was confirmed that the game will not go ahead. That is utterly utterly reprehensible behaviour and frankly I question the professionalism of the people involved. It's been designed to cause maximum disruption and Livingston are behaving like a spoiled child. Pram overturned, toys everywhere. That they can apparently guarantee they'd be able to play at Dingwall tomorrow but won't play at East Stirling is ridiculous so there can be no argument that it is anything other than a point of principle (to be fair that's exactly what Livingston say it is but we had all sorts of nonsense about players unpaid and insurance floating about because Livi let it run so long). Well I'm sorry but the SFL procedure was, so far as I can see, perfectly in accordance with the rules and if this appeal fails, as it surely will, then Livingston should without question be hit with further points penalties (to whatever extent) for this petulant refusal. It's fairly clear from the tone of the SFL press release that whoever wrote it feels the same. The brinksmanship and gun to the head attitude of Livingston's "White Knights" this week has been disgraceful. Perhaps "Horsemen of the Apocalypse" would now be more appropriate? My understanding is that Mr McGruther was in meetings with the 'consortium' all day today with a view to getting an acceptable deal for the creditors based on a Third Division contingency. This may be the reason why an appeal was submitted so late. Had a deal not been agreed he would have (probably) had no option but to go down the liquidation route today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) My understanding is that Mr McGruther was in meetings with the 'consortium' all day today with a view to getting an acceptable deal for the creditors based on a Third Division contingency. This may be the reason why an appeal was submitted so late.Had a deal not been agreed he would have (probably) had no option but to go down the liquidation route today. That may, or may not be the case, I tend not to believe it couldn't have been fairly clear the course of action to be followed much earlier in the day. However, NOTHING excuses the fact that Livingston issued an official statement at or around 5pm on their website confirming an appeal but mentioned not a word about failing to fulfil tomorrow's fixture until considerably later whenever that was (I left the office at 5:40pm and it was still only rumours then and there was nothing on your website). That is despicable behaviour designed to cause maximum inconvenience. No more, no less. If Ged Nixon was able to come outside and tell Livingston fans in the car park that they wouldn't be playing at the same time the first statement went out (and according to your fans he did) then the two statements should have been released officially at the same time. Edited August 7, 2009 by Skyline Drifter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) assuming they dont win... or.. if the rules are correct and "legitamitely" livingston are still a 1st division club then how can they dock points for a game we werent actually legitimately meant to play? risky tactic tho.. i would most definitely agree as those bunch of tw@ts at the SFL will no doubt ignore any rule book and inflict more punishment I think the case is as closed as it can be for this one. I can't imagine any bloc of support Livingston will have within the SFL or the member clubs after this new fiasco. Mcgruther got caught out by the SFL on Wednesday and two days later he's throwing almost everything again on the beaks. The word stupidity doesn't come close to covering this. Edited August 7, 2009 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Because by allowing it to happen the SFL will be breaking their own rules. Which rule would that be? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 assuming they dont win... or.. if the rules are correct and "legitamitely" livingston are still a 1st division club then how can they dock points for a game we werent actually legitimately meant to play? risky tactic tho.. i would most definitely agree as those bunch of tw@ts at the SFL will no doubt ignore any rule book and inflict more punishment But theyre not a division 1 club, theyre a division 3 club. McGRuther seems to be trying to live within some set of rules and laws known only to him, that bear no relevance whatsoever to the SFL rules he should be adhering to. Whats even more unbelievable is that there are people on here trying to, somehow, justify his actions! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chub Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Total shambles, why should we be mucked about because of a bunch of p***ks that can't be arsed turning up for a game because they're not a 3rd division club, i think you'll find you are, until you go bust anyway, usually i don't like to see any club go down the pan but i'd be 1 of the happiest people on the planet if Livi go bust next week. We were meant to have fans travelling from Sheffield and Bolton that have trains and hotels booked, we have fans booked on matchday hospitality, we have programmes printed for a 3rd division match at Ochilview between Shire and Cowdenbeath on 8th August, we've paid Stenny for use of the pitch for a game that isn't going ahead. The SFL should be ashamed of themselves, they should have had this sorted months ago, it's not like Livi just suddenly got hit by financial crisis this week, it's been going on for months but the SFL leave it until 3 days before the season kicks off to take action. Fucking disgrace. First day of the season is one that every fan in the country looks forward to all summer, but it's ruined for us due to another club being arseholes of the highest order. As i've said, i really really hope you go bust ASAP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleubrazil Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It is difficult to see this ending up in any other way than an expulsion from the league. McGruther seems to think he and his charge are immune to footballing penalties or should only be set by him and his cronies so that they don't have any impact. Back in the day, I remember a reasoned man being at Falkirk during our troubles..........the guy seems to have morphed into a grade one clown. It has gone from existance being an end game to staying in the first as being the end game. It is utterly ridiculous. It is almost as if the Livingston of old are back in town. Isn't it amazing that Livi expect their proven and real wrongdoing to be simply brushed under the carpet and everyone is simply to shut up and get on with it, whereas when they see a perceived wrongdoing against them, then it's basically "f**k the lot of you and your game".Time for the SFL to shut them down and (here's a first) go with WaffenMint's suggestion and let the Trust take the whole thing over, and start again in the EOSL. Anything but anything is better than what amounts to nothing more than another bout of chancers in Livingston. Enough is enough. You really are letting the bile affect your remaining brain cells. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Just seen a snippet of yer man McGruther on Sky Sports News. Key points: *It's absurd that Livi are being asked to play a third division match tomorrow. *Livi are still a first division club until appeal is held in his eyes. *They asked to play Ross County but that was refused. *That best course of action was to postpone Airdrie/Livi/Cowdenbeath games. This wasn't possible because of the time but why not says McGruther? - games are called off in Scotland all the time cos of the weather *He has two interested bids, one for first division scenario and one for third division scenario. He says he's done his job! PS: Is this really the guy that helped save Falkirk? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorels mum Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Have Shire called this game off? The SFL? (And if so, how, on a Friday evening). Livingston have not - according to BBC News and Radio - been given permission not to play tomorrow. Farcical... Read again the SFL statement regarding this.....LIVINGSTON FC will not be fulfilling their fixture against East Stirlingshure FC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well, if the the Livingston Supporters Trust have the daring...there is a way around this impasse, and maybe save Livingston at the same time? As I've suggested elsewhere, the LST (sounds like a gang run by Begbie!) should go to the council and ask to become the sole users of Almondvale under the name of Livingston FC and chuck out the current "Livingston" for bringing their civic facility into disrepute. What they could do tomorrow as a first step towards this is present a scratch team of their own at Ochilview tomorrow, claiming to be the real Livingston FC. It would act as a statement of intent, fire a very clear warning shot to the supposed "masters" of Livi, and perhaps soothe a few ruffled feathers up East Stirlingshire way, who are at least on their side. East Stirlingshire might of course politely refuse, but then again, they might not, as a club that knows only too well about crackpots & chancers trying to destroy them for their own ends. If they played the match (which chances are would be a humping for the poor old LST), they could claim the fixture as fulfilled - beating one stupid impasse by creating another equally ridiculous one...but at least this time no other club would be out of pocket. And there's a precident... ...a rebel Hamilton Academical scratch team played a fixture against Albion Rovers in August 1970 when they had already resigned from both the SFA and SFL as they were due to merge with Clyde and become Strathclyde Academical. BUT....A bunch of ex-Accies directors (note: ex!) gathered up a team toot sweet and fulfilled the terminated match with Albion Rovers in the old Division 2. Now for the good bit...despite the fact that they'd received and confirmed the resignation, and despite the fact that a previous match against Raith Rovers had been cancelled due to Hamilton resigning, the SFL and SFL promptly caved in and accepted the result - busting the merger at a stroke as the SFA/SFL recognised the "new" club as the "old" one! So, Livingston Supporters Trust. Do you feel game for a game? it might be your one long shot hope to rescue something from this mess and remain in the Scottish League? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 *He has two interested bids, one for first division scenario and one for third division scenario. He says he's done his job! PS: Is this really the guy that helped save Falkirk? That's the oddest one. Let's not forget McGruther's primary responsibility in his role is to maximise benefit to creditors. If he could obtain 50p in the £1 by closing the club tomorrow and 49p in the £1 by playing on he's legally obliged to do the former. He apparently now HAS an offer on the table to run Livi in the 3rd division. I've no doubt that offer is lower and worse for creditors than the one to run Livi in the 1st division. However, by taking the course of action they are they run the very real risk that they will be expelled from the league. I tend to think it won't come to that but he's taking a big risk. A Livi expelled from the league will be worthless and the creditors will get next to nothing. He's obviously weighed up the odds and taken a punt at it but he better either succeed in the appeal or hope the SFL are comparatively lenient in the punishment for failing to fulfil fixtures if the appeal fails because then his own professional reputation will be damaged. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Total shambles, why should we be mucked about because of a bunch of p***ks that can't be arsed turning up for a game because they're not a 3rd division club, i think you'll find you are, until you go bust anyway, usually i don't like to see any club go down the pan but i'd be 1 of the happiest people on the planet if Livi go bust next week. We were meant to have fans travelling from Sheffield and Bolton that have trains and hotels booked, we have fans booked on matchday hospitality, we have programmes printed for a 3rd division match at Ochilview between Shire and Cowdenbeath on 8th August, we've paid Stenny for use of the pitch for a game that isn't going ahead. The SFL should be ashamed of themselves, they should have had this sorted months ago, it's not like Livi just suddenly got hit by financial crisis this week, it's been going on for months but the SFL leave it until 3 days before the season kicks off to take action. Fucking disgrace. First day of the season is one that every fan in the country looks forward to all summer, but it's ruined for us due to another club being arseholes of the highest order. As i've said, i really really hope you go bust ASAP It's an absolute disgrace. It's not as though Shire, or any other 3rd division club for that matter can afford to be wasting expense for nothing. Livingston are a fucking stain on Scottish football. Hopefully they go under and we can get a real team into the third division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Wutherspoon Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 *He has two interested bids, one for first division scenario and one for third division scenario. He says he's done his job! Neither of which will be much use once Livi get expelled for non-fulfilment, irrespective of any appeal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 That's the oddest one. Let's not forget McGruther's primary responsibility in his role is to maximise benefit to creditors. If he could obtain 50p in the £1 by closing the club tomorrow and 49p in the £1 by playing on he's legally obliged to do the former.He apparently now HAS an offer on the table to run Livi in the 3rd division. I've no doubt that offer is lower and worse for creditors than the one to run Livi in the 1st division. However, by taking the course of action they are they run the very real risk that they will be expelled from the league. I tend to think it won't come to that but he's taking a big risk. A Livi expelled from the league will be worthless and the creditors will get next to nothing. He's obviously weighed up the odds and taken a punt at it but he better either succeed in the appeal or hope the SFL are comparatively lenient in the punishment for failing to fulfil fixtures if the appeal fails because then his own professional reputation will be damaged. He must have taken advice or be confident that McDougall/Rankine will get enough of their SFL contacts on board to be gambling like this. Could 11 folk turn up at Ochilview and play as trialists for Livi tomorrow? I'll bring my boots if you like although I'd need subbed after, ahem, 25 minutes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordieBoy80 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) He must have taken advice or be confident that McDougall/Rankine will get enough of their SFL contacts on board to be gambling like this.Could 11 folk turn up at Ochilview and play as trialists for Livi tomorrow? I'll bring my boots if you like although I'd need subbed after, ahem, 25 minutes. They would have to be registered by the club as trialists otherwise I'd turn up for a laugh Edited August 7, 2009 by GordieBoy80 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Which rule would that be? I believe he is referring to this: 76.3 Any club, club official or player aggrieved by a decision of the Management Committee, otherthan a decision taken in terms of Rule 28, which shall be final and binding, or any club aggrieved by a decision of the Management Committee in terms of Rule 31, 32 or 70 concerning the suitability of its ground, shall have power, within ten days from the date of decision, to appeal to a Special General Meeting of the League on payment of a deposit of £500.00 which shall be forfeited in the event of the appeal being dismissed. 76.4 The appeal shall, however, be deemed to have succeeded unless the decision of the Management Committee is supported by a majority of the votes cast at the said Special General Meeting. (With thanks to HibeeJibee) However, he (and the club, apparently) have grossly misinterpreted it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I might be too cynical here, but this just looks like MacDougall and Rankine are looking for a way out and using Mcgruther to get it. I've said it for a while, and WaffenThinMint has put it quite eloquently: shut the doors and have the fans start afresh, with a new club and a constitution that protects them from shysters, all the way from Hunter to Rankine and all points in between. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Could 11 folk turn up at Ochilview and play as trialists for Livi tomorrow? I'll bring my boots if you like although I'd need subbed after, ahem, 25 minutes. I know you're being mischievous but, no. Firstly they would have to represent the club with the league membership. Eleven random trialists couldn't do it. Secondly, and without checking it up, I'm sure there's a limit to the number of trialists that can play in one fixture. I think it's maybe three. I haven't time to check though, I'm on my way out for a beer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.