Livingston - all the threads merged

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Apparently the SFL have postponed the game vs. Montrose and we are going to appeal to the SFA.

Wher did you get this from EL?

[Jacobite_Dundee]

didnt think yous could answer that

I'm sure Yous will be along any second with the information you seek.

[Monster]

You can't quite see it in the picture, but just out of shot a swarthy Italian is sneaking away with some stolen candy.

[vikingTON]

Wrap it round you again, cheating scum. Where next to appeal? The UN?

Edited August 13, 2009 by vikingTON

[EdinburghLivi]

Wher did you get this from EL?

KTennant has phoned the club and that's the information he's getting.

You can't quite see it in the picture, but just out of shot a swarthy Italian is sneaking away with some stolen candy.

[qos_75]

Apparently the SFL have postponed the game vs. Montrose and we are going to appeal to the SFA.

How many more bodies is there for Livi to appeal to (Including courts)?

[The Master]

Apparently the SFL have postponed the game vs. Montrose and we are going to appeal to the SFA.

Why would the SFL postpone the game?

As far as they're concerned, the matter is done and dusted. It's of no concern to the SFL if Livi now appeal to the SFA (which, incidentally, cannot succeed because they can only appeal based on the SFL being wrong with imposing the rules...which they're not).

[Jay Silverheels]

So McGruther's "we will accept our punishment and move on" translates as "we will NOT accept our punishment, we will NOT move on, and we will take our case to the Intergalactic Court of Appeals if necessary."

[Guest Flash]

So McGruther's "we will accept our punishment and move on" translates as "we will NOT accept our punishment, we will NOT move on, and we will take our case to the Intergalactic Court of Appeals if necessary."

Under the Outer Space Act 1986.

[Fife Saint]

They must have known this appeal was doomed to fail, there is of course the possibility of the dunder-heids at the SFA having another moment of madness and taking Livi's case seriously. If they thought Livi did have a case, what action could they take?

[ray_of_licht]

How many more bodies is there for Livi to appeal to (Including courts)?

SFA then the Court of Appeal then the House of Lords then Stephen Fry then the Tooth Fairy then Santa Claus then Giovanni Di Stefano will step in and it'll get a wee bit ridiculous.

[EdinburghLivi]

So McGruther's "we will accept our punishment and move on" translates as "we will NOT accept our punishment, we will NOT move on, and we will take our case to the Intergalactic Court of Appeals if necessary."

McGruther isn't in control of the club now. He said he wouldn't take it any further, not the club.

[The Master]

They must have known this appeal was doomed to fail, there is of course the possibility of the dunder-heids at the SFA having another moment of madness and taking Livi's case seriously. If they thought Livi did have a case, what action could they take?

Livi's problem is that the SFA do not have the power to quash a punishment -- they can only overturn a decision (i.e. verdict).

Since it's patently obvious that Livi are in breach of the rules surrounding insolvency, they have no grounds for appeal.

[Yoss]

No statement on the SFL site yet.

[qos_75]

So McGruther's "we will accept our punishment and move on" translates as "we will NOT accept our punishment, we will NOT move on, and we will take our case to the Intergalactic Court of Appeals if necessary."

That's the one.

The longer this goes on the more I think the SFL should have just pulled the plug on them. I don't want to see them go, but they really are taking the piss now.

[The Master]

With apologies for the ultra-long post:

From the SFA Articles of Association:

Appeals Procedures

133. The Association’s structure for the hearing of appeals is as set out in this Article.

The following provisions and procedures provide a means for the resolution

of differences or questions arising from the observance and implementation of

the Association’s Articles, rules and decisions and the fact of membership of the

Association shall constitute an agreement by a member that it, or any body or

person interested through such member, shall submit all such differences or

questions to the jurisdiction of the Association and shall not be permitted to take

such differences or questions to a court of law.

The provisions for the hearing of appeals, as set out hereunder, shall also apply to

any sub-committee established by the Appeals Committee from time to time. All

references to Appeals Committee shall also mean a sub-committee of the Appeals

Committee as the context so requires.

Appeals Committee

133.1 A player, official, referee, club, league or association has the right to appeal to the

Appeals Committee against a decision of a club or any recognised football body

which is imposed upon such person or body, provided that the appellant has

exhausted such appeals proceedings as were available to the appellant consequent

to the decision in question, unless a satisfactory reason is given for not having

done so, and provided that the appeal to the Appeals Committee is not excluded

in terms of Article 66. For the avoidance of doubt, an appeal by a player must be

submitted either:-

a) by the player personally, in writing; or

B) by the player’s club, on the player’s behalf, in writing with the reasons of

appeal countersigned by the player.

An appeal hearing shall not be conducted as a re-hearing of the case except by

way of an express submission on behalf of a party to the hearing and with the

permission of the Chairman of the Appeals Committee.

Once an appeal has been validly submitted to the Secretary, the decision against

which the appeal is submitted shall be set aside pending the hearing of the appeal

unless the interests of justice dictate that the decision should be given effect. The

original decision making body shall be entitled to make representations to the

Secretary opposing such a setting aside of the decision. Such representation must

be lodged in writing with the Secretary within 1 working day of the Secretary’s

receipt of the appeal submission. The representations shall be considered by the

Secretary and the Chairman of the Appeals Committee, whose decision thereon

shall be final and binding. In the absence of either the Secretary and/or the

Chairman of the Appeals Committee, the President and/or the First Vice-President

shall be entitled to act as alternates in considering the representations.

133.1.1 Procedures for Lodging an Appeal

An appeal from a player, official, referee, club, league or association must be

dispatched by recorded delivery letter to the Secretary within 7 days after the

date of the meeting at which the decision appealed against was taken unless for

any reason it was not made known to the appellant at such meeting, in which case

it must be dispatched by recorded delivery letter to the Secretary within 7 days

after the date on which the decision was intimated by recorded delivery letter to

the person or body concerned. A deposit shall be lodged with each appeal. In the

case of a player or referee this shall be £50, (which shall also apply in the event of

a player’s club lodging an appeal on the player’s behalf), and in the case of any other

appellant it shall be £100. At the Appeals Committee’s discretion, the deposit will

be forfeited if the appeal is dismissed.

133.1.2 Statement of Grounds for Appeal

In lodging an appeal the appellant shall state fully in writing the grounds for the

appeal.

133.1.3 Composition of the Appeals Committee

The Appeals Committee shall consist of members of the Council in conformity

with the Standing Orders of the Association.

No member of the Council shall be eligible to sit on the Appeals Committee if

he is an office-bearer, secretary, director or member of the board of management

or committee of the club or recognised football body whose decision is appealed

against.

133.1.4 Powers of the Appeals Committee

The Appeals Committee shall have the power to:-

(1) affirm the decision of the body whose decision is appealed against;

(2) uphold the appeal by setting aside the decision appealed against and

quashing any penalty imposed;

(3) uphold the appeal in part by setting aside part only of the decision appealed

against;

(4) substitute for the decision appealed against a decision to find the appellant

guilty of a lesser offence and/or to impose a lesser penalty or penalties in

respect thereof;

(5) refer the case, or any part of it, back to the body whose decision is

appealed against;

(6) take any step which, in the exercise of its discretion, the Appeals

Committee considers it would be appropriate to take in order to deal

justly with the case in question.

If the appeal is unsuccessful, the appellant may be held liable in all or part of

the expenses of the meeting, or of the other party (parties), subject to the

discretion of the Appeals Committee.

An appeal may be withdrawn by an appellant prior to the hearing of the

case by notifying the Association of such in writing. The appeal will, upon

the Association’s receipt of such notification, be deemed to be abandoned

and the original decision, against which the appellant initially took

exception, will be regarded as final and binding. Upon the withdrawal of

an appeal, the appeal deposit will be automatically forfeited. The appellant

may be held liable in all or part for the expenses of the appeal procedure

subject to the discretion of the Appeals Committee.

133.1.5 Decisions of the Appeals Committee

The decision of the Appeals Committee shall be final and binding on all parties

concerned.

133.1.6 Secretariat

The Association’s administration shall provide the secretariat of the Appeals

Committee.

In summary:

• If Livi have grounds for appeal, the decision of the SFL is suspended
  
• The SFA can only overturn a decision and not, it would seem, a punishment
  

[Jacobite_Dundee]

McGruther isn't in control of the club now. He said he wouldn't take it any further, not the club.

Is that true? I can see that ownership of the club has changed, but that's different from the appointment of an Interim Manager (McGruther). Was he appointed by the court, or did Massone simply invite him along? The fact that there's a statement on the Livi homepage saying McGruther is Interim Manager would suggest to me that he's there by virtue of law rather than simply by invitation of the club, but I'll be told otherwise. If he's there by operation of law, I can't see by what mechanism his appointment has come to an end, even if ownership has changed.

[Skyline Drifter]

Is that true? I can see that ownership of the club has changed, but that's different from the appointment of an Interim Manager (McGruther). Was he appointed by the court, or did Massone simply invite him along? The fact that there's a statement on the Livi homepage saying McGruther is Interim Manager would suggest to me that he's there by virtue of law rather than simply by invitation of the club, but I'll be told otherwise. If he's there by operation of law, I can't see by what mechanism his appointment has come to an end, even if ownership has changed.

McGruther remains in charge of the club until the courts say differently

[Jay Silverheels]

Livijames on LiviLions site:

"If doing what we're allowed to do in trying to get our club back up to the top division possible upsets a few people, that's unfortunate."

Priceless...

[Larsson.]

SFA then the Court of Appeal then the House of Lords then Stephen Fry then the Tooth Fairy then Santa Claus then Giovanni Di Stefano will step in and it'll get a wee bit ridiculous.

Maybe McGruther should hire The A-Team.