Livingston - all the threads merged

[LIVIFOREVER]

First game of the season, with new ownership and a siege mentality brought on by perceived injustices, I'd have expected something of a rallying round.

If it was under normal circumstances then that would be right, but concidering we didn't play last week and had announced we wouldn't be playing this week after launching another appeal, a lot of Livi fans didn't even know the game was on, a few i know had made other arrangements, one even just made the game after only finding out a couple of hours before KO.

I'd expect a few hundred more at our next home game and building up as the season progresses, some stability to the club will do wonders for bringing back the supporters.

[LIVIFOREVER]

* Bald man fights off rivals to win comb. *

You didn't quite grasp my point, i wasn't boasting about att, merely saying why keep slagging Livi off about them as we've prob the largets in this Div it makes no sense other 3rd div fans having a go at us for att.

I realise that if they're saying it in relation to us remaining FT then that's a totally different matter and does have a relevance.

[Yoss]

If it was under normal circumstances then that would be right, but concidering we didn't play last week and had announced we wouldn't be playing this week after launching another appeal, a lot of Livi fans didn't even know the game was on, a few i know had made other arrangements, one even just made the game after only finding out a couple of hours before KO.

I'd expect a few hundred more at our next home game and building up as the season progresses, some stability to the club will do wonders for bringing back the supporters.

Okay. I'll wait to see.

[HibeeJibee]

With Livi out of both SFL cups: even if crowds of 1,500 turn up each home game I'm perturbed as to the viability of full-time football. Let us give huge benefits of doubt: and say that all ticket cash is pure profit on the day (i.e. match/ball sponsorship, hospitality, pie sales etc. covers match-day running costs, buses for away games, etc.). £10 ticket average/2 home games a month = £30k a month profit = can spend £7.5k a week. Squad of 20 earning just £300 a week each (£15k year) on average is going to use up £6k. Leaves £1.5k per week for rent, staffing, bills, costs, taxes etc.

If McGruther isn't allowed to leave the club running at a loss... where is the "extra profit" to break even coming from? And as I say - that's on hypothetical crowds of 1,500 and decent sponsorship.

EDIT TO ADD: And presuming no STs and most pay adult price. Which is very generous from me.

Livi can run at a loss in Div 3, with the aim of promotion... why should they be allowed to do that?

Edited August 16, 2009 by HibeeJibee

[phantoms-livi-lass]

With Livi out of both SFL cups: even if crowds of 1,500 turn up each home game I'm perturbed as to the viability of full-time football. Let us give huge benefits of doubt: and say that all ticket cash is pure profit on the day (i.e. match/ball sponsorship, hospitality, pie sales etc. covers match-day running costs, buses for away games, etc.). £10 ticket average/2 home games a month = £30k a month profit = can spend £7.5k a week. Squad of 20 earning just £300 a week each (£15k year) on average is going to use up £6k. Leaves £1.5k per week for rent, staffing, bills, costs, taxes etc.

If McGruther isn't allowed to leave the club running at a loss... where is the "extra profit" to break even coming from? And as I say - that's on hypothetical crowds of 1,500 and decent sponsorship.

EDIT TO ADD: And presuming no STs and most pay adult price. Which is very generous from me.

Livi can run at a loss in Div 3, with the aim of promotion... why should they be allowed to do that?

Good question, then we have to add the debt repayments to the bill also! I'm bad at maths but it's not looking promising.

[AND180Y]

With Livi out of both SFL cups: even if crowds of 1,500 turn up each home game I'm perturbed as to the viability of full-time football. Let us give huge benefits of doubt: and say that all ticket cash is pure profit on the day (i.e. match/ball sponsorship, hospitality, pie sales etc. covers match-day running costs, buses for away games, etc.). £10 ticket average/2 home games a month = £30k a month profit = can spend £7.5k a week. Squad of 20 earning just £300 a week each (£15k year) on average is going to use up £6k. Leaves £1.5k per week for rent, staffing, bills, costs, taxes etc.

If McGruther isn't allowed to leave the club running at a loss... where is the "extra profit" to break even coming from? And as I say - that's on hypothetical crowds of 1,500 and decent sponsorship.

EDIT TO ADD: And presuming no STs and most pay adult price. Which is very generous from me.

Livi can run at a loss in Div 3, with the aim of promotion... why should they be allowed to do that?

Livi5 are honouring season tickets sold by Massone so a few folks will be getting in for free.

Plus you forgot to add in McGruthers money for supervising the CVA.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Livi5 are honouring season tickets sold by Massone so a few folks will be getting in for free.

Plus you forgot to add in McGruthers money for supervising the CVA.

So to sum it up we are fecked?

[AND180Y]

So to sum it up we are fecked?

We are talking about a business that has never made money, never paid proper rent and never paid taxes in full.

Livi5 are now going to have to do all of that plus pay back the CVA, even if the CVA is 25p in the pound that will still be £300,000 and let's say it is over 5 years so that is another £1200 a week on top of all the other fixed costs plus did they not say care and maintenace on the stadium was about £50-80,000. Variable costs will also be hefty!!

They don't have a hope in hell of making that and none of the consortium have the required cash.

They will be fine once land values sort themselves out though, dunno what will happen to Livi after that.

[Rab-QPFC-1867]

There gonna win the league if they survive

[flyingscot]

With Livi out of both SFL cups: even if crowds of 1,500 turn up each home game I'm perturbed as to the viability of full-time football. Let us give huge benefits of doubt: and say that all ticket cash is pure profit on the day (i.e. match/ball sponsorship, hospitality, pie sales etc. covers match-day running costs, buses for away games, etc.). £10 ticket average/2 home games a month = £30k a month profit = can spend £7.5k a week. Squad of 20 earning just £300 a week each (£15k year) on average is going to use up £6k. Leaves £1.5k per week for rent, staffing, bills, costs, taxes etc.

If McGruther isn't allowed to leave the club running at a loss... where is the "extra profit" to break even coming from? And as I say - that's on hypothetical crowds of 1,500 and decent sponsorship.

EDIT TO ADD: And presuming no STs and most pay adult price. Which is very generous from me.

Livi can run at a loss in Div 3, with the aim of promotion... why should they be allowed to do that?

I don't understand that either. It seem a case of De ja vous and lessons not learned to run at a loss.

[AND180Y]

Message from the board.

http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/news_160809_1.php

Loved this bit. Looks like Duncan was right!!

That it has been achieved has been due to the assistance of a number of parties, not least West Lothian Council.

Poster on Livilions talking about P&B users;

can people stop saying stuff like "they are slating us on p & b" its getting on my tits.

seriously...who cares what some bunch of jumped up assholes think of our club?

Edited August 16, 2009 by AND180Y

[EdinburghLivi]

Don't think the quote from el bawbag is funny at all. He's spot-on in a few cases.

Edited August 16, 2009 by EdinburghLivi

[HibeeJibee]

Message from the board.

http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/news_160809_1.php

Some interesting things in the detail of that statement as it throws up some pointed issues IMO.

That it has been achieved has been due to the assistance of a number of parties, not least West Lothian Council.

I think it's always been pretty obvious that the Council would write-off a large portion of debt, AND reduce the stadium rental, to save the club... For Livi fans that is a good thing, and from a football fans perspective I suppose it's welcome too. However, if I was a citizen of West Lothian without a particular interest in the club, I might not be so happy at hundreds of thousands of £ being written off ... particularly if the Council will now, effectively, be subsiding the stadium?

The days of this club spending outwith its means are gone and what will ultimately shape its future is our supporters – both individual fans and our corporate sponsors.

Have to say I'll be astonished if the club can avoid "spending outwith its means" in Div 3... but it is relevant to note the fact that corporate sponsors are mentioned. This may be a part-solution.

The basis of the appeal to the decision to relegate the club to the Third Divison centres around, amongst other things, rules 76.3 and 76.4. We feel that the decision to relegate us is overly punitive and sets an extremely dangerous precedent within Scottish football, especially in the current economic climate.

This is what I personally find difficult to stomach. The appeal seems to basically be on 'severity of punishment' - which, firstly, should be up to the SFL (who've now voted on the issue twice - once by Management Committee and once by Clubs); and secondly, shouldn't be up to the SFA - IMO.

Going by past-precedent alone - an appeal to the SFA on 'severity of sanction' won't be upheld.

In a way, I was kind of hoping they'd found a loop-hole for which the SFL could be ham-strung. Keeping this damaging appeals process going over 'severity of sanction' disappoints me frankly!!

and Robert Wilson as director

Reasonably common name: presumably not Robert Wilson, former Berwick Rangers supremo ?

We sought, and have received confirmation from the footballing authorities that fulfilling Third Division fixtures will not prejudice our appeal case, so we were delighted to proceed and extend a warm West Lothian welcome to our visitors from Montrose.

While a valid point... it begs the question, as to why the situation the previous week was so far removed that the club found it necessary to scratch a scheduled league tie at 20 hours notice.

The system allows further appeal to the SFA, and subsequently a judicial process. As a board, we feel confident that the ruling can be overturned and are hopeful of a speedy hearing.

Technically speaking, in appealling to the SFA the club agree not to subsequently take the case to Court... although of course in practice, they can if they wish. My personal hope if that should Livi lose the SFA appeal, they will call it a day there; and I also hope that (as was the case in the Hassan Kachloul affair...?) the threat of any judicial recourse will not pray upon SFA minds...

Since their appeal is over severity of punishment (not application of rules, or whether or not SFL rules permit them to demote Livi), I'm not sure what judicial process would find in their favour...?

Edited August 16, 2009 by HibeeJibee

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Don't think the quote from el bawbag is funny at all. He's spot-on in a few cases.

Who is el bawbag????

[AND180Y]

Who is el bawbag????

EdinburghLivi?

[EdinburghLivi]

Reasonably common name: presumably not Robert Wilson, former Berwick Rangers supremo ?

That seems to be the rumour going about. Is that bad?

Who is el bawbag????

Edinburgh Lion, I believe his name is on Livi Lions. His username on here is el bawbag. It's the guy who started the "please" thread, anyway.

[AND180Y]

That seems to be the rumour going about. Is that bad?

He seems to be to Berwick fans what Rankine is to Airdrie fans.

Perfect for Livi.

[EdinburghLivi]

Apparently cleared their debt and got them promoted originally, I wonder what went wrong...

[phantoms-livi-lass]

He seems to be to Berwick fans what Rankine is to Airdrie fans.

Perfect for Livi.

You must be joking???

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Don't think the quote from el bawbag is funny at all. He's spot-on in a few cases.

I laughed at that too! Maybe I've got a sick sense of humour then but why start a thread about something you don't want mentioned?