AND180Y Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Absolute bollocks.McDougall is one shrewd cookie and keeping Livi alive is a walk in the park for him compared to what he had to do to keep Cowden going for nearly 20 years. If full-time football isnt feasible he will act at the first opportunity. If it is feasible then the books will balance. PS This is a totally anti-Livi thread being kept alive because the Livi diehards keep posting. If they stopped posting the detractors would soon get fed up. Genuine Question. What did he do? I've asked folks in Cowdenbeath about him and some love him but just as many dislike him and don't have a good word to say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Absolute bollocks.McDougall is one shrewd cookie and keeping Livi alive is a walk in the park for him compared to what he had to do to keep Cowden going for nearly 20 years. If full-time football isnt feasible he will act at the first opportunity. If it is feasible then the books will balance. PS This is a totally anti-Livi thread being kept alive because the Livi diehards keep posting. If they stopped posting the detractors would soon get fed up. Yip it's easy to pour scorn on us right now, the current owners inherited a clusterfuck of a mess, get pillaried for not puting themsleves in the shite to pay off creditors in full and also get pelters for not ripping up players full time contracts that they inherited, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sold McKee for around 125K at the start on the season to Burnley too, that hasn't been mentioned for income, plenty other young guys showing promise that will be worth a few bob next season and the following ones when sold, one positive thing about Livi is our constant bringing on of young players. Anyway i'd expect the squad to be sorted by next season wages wise, we've youngsters who will be on minimum wages, some on loan players from Hearts and Hibs, and about 8 older ones that need to be looked at, would expect a couple of them to be let go in Jan along with McParland who we've just punted. We've already cut back a bit though, volunteers from the Trust do a lot of stuff too, also having a season rent free helped off set the 300 ST's lost to Massone, but i agree a full time team is a luxury we can't afford and needs to be sorted come June. Edited November 26, 2009 by LIVIFOREVER 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Er, quite clearly Im not. Even if Livys punishment is only a fine, its still a punishment. If you were right and this insane notion of "prejudicing an appeal" were correct there would have been no punishment. I think you're misunderstanding the concept of a precednet (sic) Livy being demoted caused a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth from certain sections of livy fans, claiming that a precedent had been set for any other teams going into admin - even though that wasnt the reason, but thats another argument. The club has now been fined for scratching a fixture, therefore, by the Livy logic that has set a precedent for any other club scratching a fixture. Of course, it hasnt, but then neither had Livys demotion, but the fact is you cant claim one decision sets a precedent and then suddenly decide that others situations dont. Either the rules are strict and based on precedent, or the rules are open and each case is judged on its own merit. As for closing the thread - well, a precedent was set with Gretna. Their thread stayed open until the club died. Given how much the livy fans love their precedents (when it suits them apparently) I think this should stay open. After all, I wouldnt want to prejudice the clubs chances of survival It is Livi (sic) at least mine was a typo. Yeah it's an insane notion that Airdrie and Cowdenbeath playing how many teams along with all the ones Livi played before our appeal was heard wouldn't influence the vote in any way, i'd say the teams that won their 3 points would def vote for us and lose their points, all for the insane notion that they'd do the right thing and vote for us even if it means losing 3 points. There shouldn't be a punishment as we should've won our appeal, but hey, when have the SFL/SFA been fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Yip it's easy to pour scorn on us right now, the current owners inherited a clusterfuck of a mess, get pillaried for not puting themsleves in the shite to pay off creditors in full and also get pelters for not ripping up players full time contracts that they inherited, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sold McKee for around 125K at the start on the season to Burnley too, that hasn't been mentioned for income, plenty other young guys showing promise that will be worth a few bob next season and the following ones when sold, one positive thing about Livi is our constant bringing on of young players. Anyway i'd expect the squad to be sorted by next season wages wise, we've youngsters who will be on minimum wages, some on loan players from Hearts and Hibs, and about 8 older ones that need to be looked at, would expect a couple of them to be let go in Jan along with McParland who we've just punted. We've already cut back a bit though, volunteers from the Trust do a lot of stuff too, also having a season rent free helped off set the 300 ST's lost to Massone, but i agree a full time team is a luxury we can't afford and needs to be sorted come June. It isn't the debt reduction scheme that pisses folks off, it's that little has been learned, the wheel is back on the train and it's careering down the hill out of control again! Do you really think the gang of 5 are pouring money in because they love Livi? I wonder what the balance of the directors loan account is at present? Which one of them will run out of money first and have to walk away leaving the others with the prize and how will that skew the loyaly to Livi? I thought it was reduced rent? Not that it matters as you lot have never paid a years rent at the proper rate since you conned Meadowbank in to moving to Livi and killing them off. It won't matter what the trust/volunteers do, it won't be enough, already you lot are getting carried away in the hot air baloon to the first division, after all isn't it your god given to be there Sorted out come June now, I thought it was all going to be tickety boo come January? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Yip it's easy to pour scorn on us right now, the current owners inherited a clusterfuck of a mess, get pillaried for not puting themsleves in the shite to pay off creditors in full and also get pelters for not ripping up players full time contracts that they inherited, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Or in factual terms: damned when you don't, damned when you don't. Edited November 26, 2009 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) If thier not paying rent (300k) and got a transfer fee (125k). A few hundred paying at the gate and some other income, sponsorship etc. While paying zero, or little, to the debt. They could get away with full time football. According to published figures Airdrie turned over £750,000 last year and remained full time, albeit paying very low FT wages. I'm not saying that's fair, but it can be done. Edit. I hasten to add. The directors will still buy then sell the park and possibly relocate to a more suitable location. I'm just pointing out that the outlay before profiting from the masterplan needn't be excessive. I actually think a wee stadium, shared with the juniors would be the best option. Edited November 26, 2009 by Sergeant Wilson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Yip it's easy to pour scorn on us right now, the current owners inherited a clusterfuck of a mess, get pillaried for not puting themsleves in the shite to pay off creditors in full and also get pelters for not ripping up players full time contracts that they inherited, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Well no, not really. Damned if you screw over the creditors and maintain a full time squad that you cant possibly afford. Damned for "ripping up players full time contracts", yes probably. Damned for making the players redundant to cut costs, therefore being able to pay back the creditors and at least look like the club is taking the financial plight seriously? Er, no. Sold McKee for around 125K at the start on the season to Burnley too, that hasn't been mentioned for income, plenty other young guys showing promise that will be worth a few bob next season and the following ones when sold, one positive thing about Livi is our constant bringing on of young players. But you cant rely on it. If the club is seriously basing its finances, and I dont think for a minute that they are, on selling youth players every year, then you're even more screwed than we thought! Presumably, Livy have a decent youth set-up, then, given the players that have come through? How much does this cost a year to run? Im not sure you'd get a lot of change from £125k Anyway i'd expect the squad to be sorted by next season wages wise, we've youngsters who will be on minimum wages, some on loan players from Hearts and Hibs, and about 8 older ones that need to be looked at, would expect a couple of them to be let go in Jan along with McParland who we've just punted.We've already cut back a bit though, volunteers from the Trust do a lot of stuff too, also having a season rent free helped off set the 300 ST's lost to Massone, but i agree a full time team is a luxury we can't afford and needs to be sorted come June. Its not just the full time squad though, is it? As a couple of people have pointed out, even paying players minimum wage, Livy would still be running at a loss on the current crowds + guestimate off pitch revenue. Doesnt this worry you, even slightly? Do you not wonder where the money is coming from and on what terms? People have accused this thread of being anti-Livy, but I dont see it that way at all. OK, the motivation and, probably, sentiment from a lot of people, is anti-Livy, but the questions being asked are the same questions we would be asking of our own clubs in the same position. But, strangely, none of the Livy fans seem to know the answers, or worse care! It is Livi (sic) at least mine was a typo. Yeah it's an insane notion that Airdrie and Cowdenbeath playing how many teams along with all the ones Livi played before our appeal was heard wouldn't influence the vote in any way, i'd say the teams that won their 3 points would def vote for us and lose their points, all for the insane notion that they'd do the right thing and vote for us even if it means losing 3 points. There shouldn't be a punishment as we should've won our appeal, but hey, when have the SFL/SFA been fair. It doesnt really matter what you're view on Airdrie or Cowden's vote might have been - in fact, didnt they not vote anyway, due to a conflict of interest. The simple fact is that you were told to play the game and didnt. You're using your opinions to try and justify why livy broke the rules. Im afraid it doesnt work that way Oh, and I know its Livi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 If thier not paying rent (300k) and got a transfer fee (125k). A few hundred paying at the gate and some other income, sponsorship etc. While paying zero, or little, to the debt. They could get away with full time football. According to published figures Airdrie turned over £750,000 last year and remained full time, albeit paying very low FT wages.I'm not saying that's fair, but it can be done. Edit. I hasten to add. The directors will still buy then sell the park and possibly relocate to a more suitable location. I'm just pointing out that the outlay before profiting from the masterplan needn't be excessive. I actually think a wee stadium, shared with the juniors would be the best option. Their rent was subsidised to £20,000 this year and £50,000 a year thereafter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Their rent was subsidised to £20,000 this year and £50,000 a year thereafter. Thats still to high 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Their rent was subsidised to £20,000 this year and £50,000 a year thereafter. Still, if the directors are playing a long game regarding the stadium it could still work. Even at 50k a year if ALL stadium income goes to them ie conferences, office space etc Edit. Sorry I might be confusing things. I am not saying this will work long term for Livi, but it might for the directors. Livi might then find their level Edited November 26, 2009 by Sergeant Wilson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Thats still to high I'd agree with you, if the council really had Livingston Football Clubs interests at heart then they would have taken a % of turnover instead of a fixed amount. This would also have allowed for variances in income throught the season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 It isn't the debt reduction scheme that pisses folks off, it's that little has been learned, the wheel is back on the train and it's careering down the hill out of control again! Do you really think the gang of 5 are pouring money in because they love Livi? I wonder what the balance of the directors loan account is at present? Which one of them will run out of money first and have to walk away leaving the others with the prize and how will that skew the loyaly to Livi? I thought it was reduced rent? Not that it matters as you lot have never paid a years rent at the proper rate since you conned Meadowbank in to moving to Livi and killing them off. It won't matter what the trust/volunteers do, it won't be enough, already you lot are getting carried away in the hot air baloon to the first division, after all isn't it your god given to be there Sorted out come June now, I thought it was all going to be tickety boo come January? Deja Vu ? Sounds just like the scenario when the Italians came in, the supposedly rich two buggered off shortly after leaving Massone & Angelini ? PLL and myself are the only Livi fans who seem to have reservations about the new board. I hear that a seat on the board can be bought for £50,000. The "Trust" are getting one when they reach £20,000 but they have to commit to raising the extra £30,000 within a couple of years. They've been going for 5 years and have raised a total of approx £25,000 in that time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Deja Vu ? Sounds just like the scenario when the Italians came in, the supposedly rich two buggered off shortly after leaving Massone & Angelini ? PLL and myself are the only Livi fans who seem to have reservations about the new board. I hear that a seat on the board can be bought for £50,000. The "Trust" are getting one when they reach £20,000 but they have to commit to raising the extra £30,000 within a couple of years. They've been going for 5 years and have raised a total of approx £25,000 in that time. £50,000 for a bit part in a disaster movie!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand 2 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 A little off topic, but still Livi related, how is David Sinclair playing? I've noticed he's started the majority of games since September. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Deja Vu ? Sounds just like the scenario when the Italians came in, the supposedly rich two buggered off shortly after leaving Massone & Angelini ? PLL and myself are the only Livi fans who seem to have reservations about the new board. I hear that a seat on the board can be bought for £50,000. The "Trust" are getting one when they reach £20,000 but they have to commit to raising the extra £30,000 within a couple of years. They've been going for 5 years and have raised a total of approx £25,000 in that time. It's fair enough having reservations,especially with regard to Rankine,when you're on life support you'll rightly try anything to survive,unfortunately that usually involves risking the unknown. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleubrazil Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 It isn't the debt reduction scheme that pisses folks off, it's that little has been learned, the wheel is back on the train and it's careering down the hill out of control again! Do you really think the gang of 5 are pouring money in because they love Livi? I wonder what the balance of the directors loan account is at present? Which one of them will run out of money first and have to walk away leaving the others with the prize and how will that skew the loyaly to Livi? I thought it was reduced rent? Not that it matters as you lot have never paid a years rent at the proper rate since you conned Meadowbank in to moving to Livi and killing them off. It won't matter what the trust/volunteers do, it won't be enough, already you lot are getting carried away in the hot air baloon to the first division, after all isn't it your god given to be there Sorted out come June now, I thought it was all going to be tickety boo come January? Trust someone from Kelty to come up with this total pish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Trust someone from Kelty to come up with this total pish. Well if you are going to dismiss the post at least have the balls explain why or post a counter argument/opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 A little off topic, but still Livi related, how is David Sinclair playing? I've noticed he's started the majority of games since September. A football related post? Sinky is becoming a very good player next to Fox in the middle of the park. Very good touch and is strong on the ball despite being a bit small in stature. Was MOTM on Tuesday and signed a new contract about a week ago. A player that we can go onto sell for good money. I think he's as good as any of the other youngsters that have moved on to better things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Trust someone from Kelty to come up with this total pish. Here's a wee secret for you he's not from Kelty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Here's a wee secret for you he's not from Kelty Now don't you start posting from your other username to back yourself up in this dream. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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