Livingston - all the threads merged

[LIVIFOREVER]

43 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

As soon as that bid came in during the summer Martindale wanted him gone, I can almost guarantee he's holding a grudge over the fact he didn't agree terms on the move

Isn't being helpful to get other bids in then, only way we'll get offers, and decent ones at that, is if Anderson scores 10+ goals. Guthrie and Nouble aint getting us that between them, lucky if they'll hit 2 each at the rate they're going.

Just a pity Anderson is shit at penalties, that could've added 5 or 6 goals to his total easy.

Edited December 24, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

But he'd better start him against St Johnstone and Motherwell, that's the games we need him starting, where he'll get service and chances to score.

I feel like youre either getting your absolute best 11 in a sensible manner against us, or some galaxy brain set up with half the team out of position and Shinnie as a lone striker, there will be no middle ground.

[Livi La Vida Loca]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

I feel like youre either getting your absolute best 11 in a sensible manner against us, or some galaxy brain set up with half the team out of position and Shinnie as a lone striker, there will be no middle ground.

You sit have hit the nail on the head. Sadly it will be the latter most likely.

[Livi La Vida Loca]

2 hours ago, ATLIS said:

As soon as that bid came in during the summer Martindale wanted him gone, I can almost guarantee he's holding a grudge over the fact he didn't agree terms on the move

If I'm honest I was pissed off when Anderson didn't go because his contracts up and he will absolutely leave on a free. 

Martindale spent so much time trying to punt Nouble when in reality half our team is out of contract so why didn't we try to sell any of them? I know you want as little a rebuild in the summer as possible but next summer I think we are in real trouble. 

[Freedom Farter]

When it comes to player selection, Martindale seems to be really into the tactical profile of a player and possibly prioritises that ahead of the player's overall ability.

Sean Kelly and Guthrie are both players I rate less highly than Martindale. First, the usual disclaimer - I'm probably wrong on that, I hope I'm wrong on that and I also hope both players go on to prove beyond any doubt that I'm wrong. However, with my current opinion as it is, what I think happens with them is that both offer a unique tactical profile within the squad.

Sean Kelly is the only midfield anchor and by that I don't just mean a defensive midfielder, I mean one that defends by holding their position as opposed to pressing. Busquets not Mascherano. The thinking there is such a player can hold the team's defensive shape better (hence, "anchor") while a defensive mid like Holt goes off pressing which can win the ball back but also lose the shape if the press fails.  The thing is, I just don't think Sean Kelly is good enough at the job. The recent Hibs goal was a case in point where Youan beat Holt's press then dribbled forward into a gap which should've been getting plugged by Sean Kelly but wasn't. So because our midfield anchor isn't up to it, play without one.  Still on that Hibs goal, a second presser up alongside Holt (Pittman or Sangare) would've stopped Youan, or failing that the middle centre back (Obileye) steps out and forward into that midfield anchor space Youan dribbled into. Obileye is actually quite good at doing that.

Then with Guthrie he's the only aerial target man in the squad. Yet offering that tactical option is surely a bit redundant if the overall ability of the player is so reduced compared to the alternatives (Nouble and Anderson). Guthrie is being chosen for his tactical profile first before his ability. Martindale wants to use an aerial target man. Yet the same as if your midfield anchor isn't good enough then play without one, if your aerial target man isn't good enough then play without one.

Pittman is a player I rate similarly to Martindale (very highly) but again Martindale seems to have an inflexible idea on the player's tactical fit. He's very reluctant to use Pittman alongside Holt as a second centre mid presser, instead viewing Pittman as an attacking mid only.

Welch-Hayes is a funny example of this inflexible thinking on players' tactical profiles. Martindale has obviously decided this guy is a right back in a four and nothing else. So for the two matches we played a back four (away to Hearts then Dundee), Welch-Hayes came in out the cold then went straight back out once we returned to a back three next match. He came on against Aberdeen last wednesday because we'd switched to a back four at that point in the game. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

I'd argue on current form Guthrie would be a better partnership for Anderson up front than Nouble. Nouble gives us a couple of good runs a game, then is pretty much a passenger all game. Guthrie has more energy for a press, helping Anderson out, keeping him a bit fresher to last the whole game. When Nouble is there, he lets Anderson run himself silly, then he has to be subbed because he's knackered doing all the leg work pressing opposition defenders. 

Don't think Guthrie is just an aerial target man either, he has decent hold up play and laying the ball off for runners. I think we could use him helping Anderson out playing it on the deck too.

Nouble on form is absolutely miles better than Guthrie, think the last time i saw Nouble having a good game was Hibs away though. If he'd give us 7 or 8 runs hitting the byeline and getting balls into the opposition box we'd prob score a couple of goals, but he does that once or twice and then disappears.

 

[Freedom Farter]

4 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

I'd argue on current form Guthrie would be a better partnership for Anderson up front than Nouble. Nouble gives us a couple of good runs a game, then is pretty much a passenger all game. Guthrie has more energy for a press, helping Anderson out, keeping him a bit fresher to last the whole game. When Nouble is there, he lets Anderson run himself silly, then he has to be subbed because he's knackered doing all the leg work pressing opposition defenders. 

Don't think Guthrie is just an aerial target man either, he has decent hold up play and laying the ball off for runners. I think we could use him helping Anderson out playing it on the deck too.

Nouble on form is absolutely miles better than Guthrie, think the last time i saw Nouble having a good game was Hibs away though. If he'd give us 7 or 8 runs hitting the byeline and getting balls into the opposition box we'd prob score a couple of goals, but he does that once or twice and then disappears.

 

Well he scored in his last start and also assisted that Anderson chance so if he starts against St Johnstone its on merit this time.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Freedom Farter

[CharlieWhisky]

Read that Aphelele Teto has returned to South Africa after picking up an injury. 

Martindale said he was waiting for a call up to the SA u23 team to qualify for a UK work permit. This despite the fact that Teto has never played for them, he wasn’t selected in their last squad in March, and they don’t have any fixtures scheduled any time soon, after failing to qualify for both the u23 AFCON and 2024 Olympics. 

There may be a small chance he could make the u20 squad - he is 20 - for the African Games, taking place in Ghana next March. Quite why he would be selected, having not played for several months, is a mystery. When a squad might be announced, how long that might be before the tournament, and how long it would subsequently take to do the paperwork remains unknown but again casts doubt on the likelihood we will ever see him play for Livingston.

Presumably this whole exercise has been costly for the club, in spite of not paying his wages. Flights, accommodation and the reams of paperwork and legal fees (insignificant compared to forthcoming news, I imagine) must have been such a hassle for a player who has no right to live and work in the UK, and no realistic chance of ever acquiring a work permit.

Edited December 26, 2023 by CharlieWhisky
Typo

[ATLIS]

Another brand new account to block, woo!

[Freedom Farter]

Teto and Livingston in summer 2023 was roughly as strong a case as Sadat Anaku and Dundee Utd had been in summer 2022. The rejection seemed less a result of an objective framework being applied and more just personal whim.

A national youth team call up was always unlikely. That'd have required Teto to be playing regularly for the first team of a South African top tier side. Yet he wasn't even a first team regular at TS Galaxy where Livi signed him from. So while Martindale did publicly moot the idea of loaning him back to South Africa for regular top tier football, I doubt he actually believed that was possible.

The reason the panel gave last summer for rejecting Teto's claim was they didn't believe the player was good enough for Livi. Maybe Martindale thinks the club having since demonstrated so much committment to the player disproves that. That might be the thinking.

Either way, hold fire before adding this to your "Hogarth in, Ward out" column. It's not concluded yet.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Freedom Farter

[Livi]

16 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

 

Either way, hold fire before adding this to your "Hogarth in, Ward out" column. It's not concluded yet.

I'll certainly not be cheerleading your Ward / Martindale are the saviour's mantra. 

 

A clear out of the decks is required and that includes EVERYONE.

 

interesting many Livi fans just want to block out the current Livi FC challenges by blocking some. We'll await the wished we had listened.  

[Freedom Farter]

25 minutes ago, Livi said:

I'll certainly not be cheerleading your Ward / Martindale are the saviour's mantra. 

 

A clear out of the decks is required and that includes EVERYONE.

 

interesting many Livi fans just want to block out the current Livi FC challenges by blocking some. We'll await the wished we had listened.  

There's about ten of us or something who read this thread regularly. If you're looking to raise an army to overthrow John Ward, this isn't the place to recruit.

[Livi]

23 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

There's about ten of us or something who read this thread regularly. If you're looking to raise an army to overthrow John Ward, this isn't the place to recruit.

Do you need to clap your hands and stamp your feet and hail Ward/Martindale to be accepted?

oh an just throw insults to those that dont

[Freedom Farter]

13 minutes ago, Livi said:

Do you need to clap your hands and stamp your feet and hail Ward/Martindale to be accepted?

oh an just throw insults to those that dont

You're not being bullied. It's just unclear what exactly you want from me or the other folk who contribute to this thread.

[Livi]

8 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

You're not being bullied. It's just unclear what exactly you want from me or the other folk who contribute to this thread.

Let's be clear i don't need or want anything.

you've changed your tune. You were throwing insults galore my way at one point.

Its a forum some people engage some don't thats life.

[Freedom Farter]

2 minutes ago, Livi said:

Let's be clear i don't need or want anything.

you've changed your tune. You were throwing insults galore my way at one point.

Its a forum some people engage some don't thats life.

I'm a knob but at least a straightforward knob. I'm aggressive not passive - aggressive. 

Your comments are vague and full of cryptic threats. That's exasperating to read. You'd get on better by just clearly stating what you think.

Once folk have eventually understood what you're getting at, and its very hard work to finally arrive at that point because of how coy you are, you've received concessions on everything. That Martindale has some sort of investment or ownership stake in the club. That Ward and Martindale have made an arse of things the last two years which they've now course corrected on. That the Rankine court case, if lost, will be a huge and dangerous financial blow to the club.

Nobody is arguing against any of that so I don't see why you're still so aggrieved. 

[Rogier le Garcon de Cabine]

On 26/12/2023 at 20:12, ATLIS said:

Another brand new account to block, woo!

 

On 26/12/2023 at 20:12, Freedom Farter said:

Either way, hold fire before adding this to your "Hogarth in, Ward out" column. It's not concluded yet.

 

[Freedom Farter]

11 minutes ago, Rogier le Garcon de Cabine said:

 

 

At least you're no longer pretending to be a Livi fan. Nonce.

[ATLIS]

Right, the must win game wasn't won. Can we get some change now?

[Rogier le Garcon de Cabine]

8 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

That Ward and Martindale have made an arse of things the last two years which they've now course corrected on

Genuinely what course have they corrected lol. 

We're now 11 games w/o a win. Martindale's greeting like a wean about his budget despite the club pissing away money like it's going out of style on court cases, a shitey bus that breaks down, a salary for Brian Rice (who's done what since arriving?) and who knows what else... 

We need more goals, but we need money for a striker... If only we hadn't let young Jack Hamilton go for that pocket change - That's great course correction!